philter25

iTrader: (4)

You should post it here too Jonny for reference. Much appreciated!

JonnyOzero3

Sure thing:

http://i44.tinypic.com/f4h4bl.jpg

philter25

iTrader: (4)

Jonny,

I appreciate you doing the VOA. I have been debated and I decided on redline for my next oil change. I was between PU, Redline, and staying with the Nissan Ester oil.

My dealer quoted me 100 bucks for a change with Nissan Ester oil and said if I brought my own oil and filter, they would charge me 25 bucks for labor. So I ordered a 12 pack of redline and a 2 pack of pureone filters. Its going to cost me about 60 bucks for materials + 25 labor fee so an oil change with redline is going to cost 85 bucks vs. 100 bucks for nissan ester oil. It kinda was a no-brainer to put in what I consider a better quality oil and oil filter for less money.

I'll be getting this done in 2 weeks and sending my ester oil off for a UOA to add to the UOA bank.

JonfromCB

I'm curious about what information you guys wanting to see VOAs on this oil
are getting from the analysis? ....that it's full of moly? that its a weak 30 wt?
that it's a group III semi-syn base? Just curious as to why.

I've seen about a dozen UOAs on Nissan Ester used in both VQ37s and 35s.
So far, it consistently shears to 20 weight in less than 5K in the VQ35s
and around 4K in the VQ37s....very consistently. Like M1, it shows higher
iron than many other oils. Consistently high copper levers as well....perhaps
distorted by the moly levels?

I've personally used the Nissan oil to date, but I've now seen enough
data to discontinue using it even though I have two more years
of a service plan using it. I don't think it's bad stuff, honestly it
probably will get better mileage in the VQ37 than most other oils
but I'm also sure it won't hold up to my driving style. Based on
the UOA data I've seen, I wouldn't recommend anyone keep
this stuff in their engine for more than 3750 miles.

Far and away the best UOAs for the VQ37 I've seen have been
Redline followed very closely by Motul. At $9.10/qt delivered
to my door it's an easy decision.

I'm already experiencing the need to add make-up oil between
changes with the Nissan as many others are experiencing.
I'll be curious to see how much the Redline evaporates/and/or
burns off in this engine. .....the verdict is still out on PU in this
application.

philter25

iTrader: (4)

I wanted a baseline to compare UOAs to and I was curious about the additive package and the initial viscosity. Was it a light 30 weight, or a heavy. I wanted to know where it started so you could see how much it broke down based on UOAs. If its initially a light 30 weight oil and it breaks down slightly to a heavy 20 weight oil after a few 4k UOAs, then it might fit the bill for my schedule 2 longer OCI. But if it was a heavier 30 weight oil and it broke down to a light 20 weight oil after a few 4k UOAs, then I dont think I would be using it as my schedule 2 oil.

Im on schedule 2 maintenance based on my driving habits. Im about to hit 7000 miles total on my car. I had the factory fill of ester oil changed out at about 3200 miles and have had the ester oil in my car since then (about 3800). I bought the car in April of last year so Im averaging only 7k a year on the car. I dont mind paying money for a good oil that can hold up and tolerate heat and would provide good protection for extended OCIs. There was a lot of mis-information about this oil on boards, including if it was a synthetic/non-synthetic, what its base oils were, etc.

Agreed, only Ive only seen a handful of UOAs. Since Im on schedule 2, even though I havent gone more than 4k on an oil change so far, I wanted to know if the Nissan Ester could even last that long and hold up with extended OCIs. Although its "reccommended" by Nissan, I dont think it will. Since numerous UOAs have shown its more like a 5w20 weight oil after 4k miles, running it for 7.5 I dont think is a good idea.

Agreed. I said the same thing in the definitive oil thread.

Agreed. And considering I can get a redline oil change with a pureone filter at my local dealership cheaper than a nissan ester with the OEM filter, I decided to go with redline for my next oil change.

I'll be doing a UOA with the redline (but based on my mileage per year, that might be 9 months) and checking the levels to see if I need any makeup oil with the redline.

SM_Shadowman

My UOA said I should be able to get about 4-5K with the Nissan Ester. I'd prefer to do around 5K oil changes anyway. I'm considering switching to either Redline or PU (once I've seen enough guinea pigs, perhaps ).

One thing I wonder about Redline though is it's not API-certified, which from what I've read generally means it contains more phosphorous additives. The upshot is perhaps you get better engine wear protection, but then you might be slowly damaging your Catalytic converter. Any opinion on that?

Mike

iTrader: (1)

The emissions system has its own warranty. Just... don't let the dealer know, and if your cat fails, they should be more than happy to replace it for you for free.

Spot on!

JonfromCB

Philter25, Sounds like we have similar situations and views, I put low mileage
on my car, but I drive it hard when I drive it. It sits for weeks during the summer
because I'm on one of my motorcycles from April to November.

Anyway, I'm switching to Redline this week...just got my annual Redline order
delivered from OG Racing. Still not sure what to do with/or about the
remaining service plan/oil changes from Nissan. Suggestions/thoughts
are welcome. I'm thinking perhaps I'll go 5K with Redline, then do
3K with the Nissan Ester, then go back and forth until all the freebie
oil changes are used up.

Shadowman, it's essentially the high levels of zinc (ZDDP) that keep
Redline out of API rating. I'm not worried about it harming the emissions
system in a nice tight properly maintained engine like we all have.
It may be an issue in a half-worn poorly maintained engine that is
passing lots of "blow-by" oil from the crank-case and bad piston
rings get to the converters....but that is not an issue. Also, in
a good motor, the true synthetic ester oil should actually contribute
to less oil evaporation, and create a superior ring seal resulting in
less oil getting to the converters than using a typical Group III
synthetic. I'm guessing that if the zinc in Redline clogs my
converters in say 300K, I'll already be dead and won"t care anyways!
If I"m wrong, I'd rather replace an exhaust system than have to
tear into a VVEL system sludged up with oil cooked to it or have
to replace the main bearings at 80K because this engine sheared
the oil down to usless every 5K....just look at the iron and lead
levels in many of the UOAs and try to convince anyone the
main bearings aren't taking a beating.

I'm betting two things. We're gonna see lots of abused, shot VQ37
engines in the next couple of years that are just barely past warranty...
and I'll bet I know three guys who won't have any problems because
they were smart and paying attention.

philter25

iTrader: (4)

A case of Redline is 100ish bucks. I dont know what OG charges, but Ill assume its around there. A case gets me through 2 changes which is a year at 3500-4000 miles per change every 6 months.

So you are looking at 50 bucks plus the filter, which is 5 bucks, so 55 bucks each change of 110 for the full year for peace of mind and knowing you are using a better oil which wont shear and breakdown and can last the longer OCI.

Like you said, if you are going schedule 1, 3250 miles per change and swapping it every 3 months, Im sure the Nissan ester is more than fine. But if you are doing longer OCIs, I would put a fully synthetic oil in the car that wont breakdown like the Nissan Ester does and will last the longer OCI.

Maybe once you are planning on getting rid of the car, put the Nissan ester in for the last year?

You would probably know better than I do, but I thought switching back and forth and back and forth from full synthetic to a semi-syn wasnt a good idea?

SM_Shadowman

Actually, from pricing I've done the Red Line works out to be slightly cheaper per quart than the Nissan Ester. That's really what I think the big issue is -- extended OCI or not, nobody wants to pay that much for what seems like plain-old oil with a few additives.

From what I've read there are seems to be no problems with switching back and forth between synthetic and non, or whatever.

Germantown, huh? You're right around the corner from me then.

Jon & Mike: Thanks for the info.

philter25

iTrader: (4)

I got my report from Blackstone. Suprisingly faster than I was expecting. I had my car in for an oil change Monday the 26th and had the oil in the mail the same day, so figured it took only a week for them to get my oil and run the test on it.

I almost had 4k miles on the sample, and like the others, my Ester oil sheared to a "medium" 5w20 weight. Although blackstone said not to worry about the low viscosity, Im on schedule 2 so I wouldnt want to keep it in my car for another 3k miles.

Im sure its fine for people on schedule 1, but add this UOA to the collection of Ester oil UOAs showing that you shouldnt keep this oil in for an OCI because it wont hold up.

My car is currently filled with redline.

philter25

iTrader: (4)

Lump of all Nissan Ester UOAs for Reference:

VOA:
UOAs:



PM me if I missed any...... its easier for comparison if they are all in the same place instead of different pages on different threads throughout the forums. With so many people running the Nissan Ester oil, theres gotta be more.....

jmark

Is going to Redline at 3750 miles an issue? That's my plan along with a K & N oil filter.

KLB

I posted this in the General Tech forum. Didn't know this thread was here, so I am reposting it here.

Here is my latest UOA on Mobil 1 with an OEM oil filter. I am trying Pennzoil Ultra this time and I switched to Wix for my filter, so we will see next time if there is a difference.

philter25

iTrader: (4)

Depends on who you ask. Some people use a break in oil and then go to full synthetic on their first change after that. Some people say theres a rule of thumb to go 5k miles. And some people say the engine needs to be fully broken (which could be 15k miles) in before going synthetic.

And then whoever is your service guy at the dealership will tell you completely something else.

I like to base my choices on empirical evidence. Based on the UOAs on here, I think you are perfectly fine switching at 3750 and due to the numerous UOAs that all show the nissan ester oil shearing between 3-4k miles, I think its a smart move and a good way to protect your engine.