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Blackstone Laboratories Oil Analysis Reports

Old 10-29-2008, 07:25 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by JonnyOzero3 View Post
Huh...guess I missed this thread. I've done two so far. Next one will be soon.

I'm copying this from my posts at BITOG.com

1) Unk Factory Fill 5W-30 drained at 2670mi
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...98#Post1187298
-----

2) Dealer Dino Valvoline 5W-30 Drained at 3830mi (previous UOA #'s in parenthesis)
http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...35#Post1209035

Enjoy.

I think I need the new ester oil for the TSB...I'll send that in too after it gets miles on it.
Nice. Looks like the regular dino oil is doing just fine on your intervals so far. I've got the new ester oil in and I'll send mine in when the time comes to change it. I'm going to run it 7500 miles this time and see what it comes out like. Mine are mostly highway miles.
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Old 10-29-2008, 08:12 PM
  #32  
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If you read the comments at BITOG.com, the general feeling seems to be that it's shedding quite a lot of wear metals, and is shearing the oil down. Odd.
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Old 10-29-2008, 09:45 PM
  #33  
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Interesting. If I have the VVEL software updated at the upcoming oil change for the knocking - do you guys think I should have them put the Ester Oil as per TSB in or my German Castrol 0W-30 that I have bought for the car in?
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:39 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by Black Betty View Post
The only flaming I have for your statement is the "if it's dirty" part of your comments. There is very, very little you can tell by looking at your oil visually, hence the analysis. You cant see the stuff in oil that will do the real damage unless you have some very heavy sludge in it which is unlikely. You can't tell how "dirty" it is by color alone.
I beg to differ, sir.

If you look at the color of the oil you use when it's brand new, and you note the color of the oil when you check it (I know you check it every other fill up, right?) you can tell whether or not it's getting "dirty".

I would suggest that the money spent on the oil analysis was money wasted unless you are REALLY interested in the gnat's *** details.

The tests results show that:

For THIS vehicle

Under THESE conditions

At THIS temperature

At THIS altitude

With THIS humidity

Etc, AD NAUSIUM

Here's what the oil had in it.

Tell me exactly what that means for Joe Plumber the car driver. Please?

Are there any geniuses out there who can really tell me, based on those numbers, which is the absolute best oil to use?

Don't you think that if one oil is clearly superior to all the others that EVERYBODY would be using it? That means all the NHRA folks and all the NASCAR folks and all the Indy folks, etc.

Any oil that is SAE approved is good oil. That's one reason why the Society of Automotive Engineers exists. They set the standards.

Once again I'll ask...

ANYBODY here had an oil related problem????

Hey Suse, people, let's try to use some common sense.

By now you guys should know I get REALLY **** about stuff like this.
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:03 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by KahnQuistador View Post
I beg to differ, sir.

If you look at the color of the oil you use when it's brand new, and you note the color of the oil when you check it (I know you check it every other fill up, right?) you can tell whether or not it's getting "dirty".

I would suggest that the money spent on the oil analysis was money wasted unless you are REALLY interested in the gnat's *** details.

The tests results show that:

For THIS vehicle

Under THESE conditions

At THIS temperature

At THIS altitude

With THIS humidity

Etc, AD NAUSIUM

Here's what the oil had in it.

Tell me exactly what that means for Joe Plumber the car driver. Please?

Are there any geniuses out there who can really tell me, based on those numbers, which is the absolute best oil to use?

Don't you think that if one oil is clearly superior to all the others that EVERYBODY would be using it? That means all the NHRA folks and all the NASCAR folks and all the Indy folks, etc.

Any oil that is SAE approved is good oil. That's one reason why the Society of Automotive Engineers exists. They set the standards.

Once again I'll ask...

ANYBODY here had an oil related problem????

Hey Suse, people, let's try to use some common sense.

By now you guys should know I get REALLY **** about stuff like this.
Differ all you want Kahn, but you're just plain wrong about it and you're spreading misinformation. I'm not advocating one brand of oil over another. I personally believe that if you use dollar store .78 cent 5W30 oil you can probably keep your car running for as long as you want to keep it. What I'm saying, no, what people who are experts are saying, is that looking at an oil's color to see how dirty it is or if it needs changing is just plain ignorant.

Excerpts:
http://www.motor-oil-engineers.com/oilcolor.htm
It is a common misconception that an oil’s color is an indication of how “dirty” it is. This is not true. It is often a common tactic used at quick lubes and service centers; the technician pulls the dipstick and wipes it on a white shop cloth and shows the customer how “black and dirty” it is. Any oil will turn black after a short period of use. Some oils may stay “clean” looking longer than others, but eventually they all will turn black. This is perfectly normal.
When someone tells me how “clean” their oil is because they have pulled the dipstick and it looks clean I always tell them that it will eventually turn black. They also tell me when they pull the dipstick and it has becomes black and “dirty” it will require changing. That’s about the time I will pull my dipstick in one of my trucks and show them how black and “dirty” the oil is. I will then produce my latest oil analysis test report that provides laboratory chemical and spectrographic test data confirming that the oil perfectly suitable for continued service.
In general, the color of an oil does not have any bearing on its lubrication ability or whether or not the oil is suitable for continued use*. Most oil and especially diesel engine oil will turn black in the first few hours of operation due to contaminates generated by the combustion process and soot particles. It is the job of the filtration system to filter out the larger sized soot particles that can cause engine wear and the additive package of the oil to neutralize and hold in suspension the soot particles that are too small for the filter to trap and hold.
* Under certain conditions such fuel dilution, water contamination or glycol contamination, for example, the color can provide insight that something is mechanically wrong and in need of repair and/or additional analysis, however under normal operating conditions without mechanical problems present the black color which is commonly referred to as “dirty oil” in the vehicle servicing industry does not have any bearing on its lubrication ability.
The only way to accurately determine an oils lubricating value or contamination level is through (spectrographic) oil analysis. Oil analysis is common practice used regularly in commercial, industrial and fleet operations and can also be used for passenger cars, light trucks or any other application.
http://www.oilsandlube.com/oil-color.htm
It is a common misconception that an oil's color is an indication of how dirty it is. This is absolutely NOT TRUE. The color of an oil does not have any bearing on its lubrication ability. Most oil and especially diesel engine oil will turn black in the first few hours of operation due to contaminates generated by the combustion process and soot particles. The ONLY way to accurately determine an oil's lubricating value or contamination level is through (spectrographic) oil analysis. Oil analysis is common practice used regularly in commercial, industrial and fleet operations and can also be used for passenger cars, light trucks or any other application. In addition oil analysis will also determine the exact pars per million (ppm) of wear metals in your oil which provides an indication of any abnormal wear or specific components that need mechanical inspection in addition to checking for any fuel, water or glycol contamination. *At the end of this section you will find a listing of what oil analysis testing checks for.
The useful life of an engine oil is dependent on several factors such as the quality of the oil, type of fuel, equipment condition, type and operating environment of the equipment and, most important, the type of filtration used. The filtration system and the oil are vital tools for preserving engine life. A highly efficient filter is essential to protect an engine by removing both liquid and abrasive contaminants held in suspension by a high quality premium oil such as AMSOIL. When using AMSOIL Synthetic Lubricants for extended drain intervals the AMSOIL Super Duty Filter must be changed at 12,500 miles or 6 months for gas engines and 10,000 miles or 6 months for diesel engines, such as the Ford Powerstroke or Dodge Cummins.

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#Th...k%20Oil%20Myth
The Dark Oil Myth
Dark oil does not indicate the need for an oil change. The way modern detergent motor oil works is that minute particles of soot are suspended in the oil. These minute particles pose no danger to your engine, but they cause the oil to darken. A non-detergent oil would stay clearer than a detergent oil because all the soot would be left on the internal engine parts and would create sludge. If you never changed your oil, eventually the oil would no longer be able to suspend any more particles in the oil and sludge would form. Fortunately, by following the manufacturer's recommended oil change interval, you are changing your oil long before the oil has become saturated. Remember, a good oil should get dirty as it does it's work cleaning out the engine. The dispersant should stop all the gunk from depositing in the oil pan.

The only real way to determine whether oil is truly in need of changing is to have an oil analysis performed. Since most people don't want to bother with this, it's acceptable to err heavily on the safe side and simply follow the manufacturer's recommended change interval for severe service. There are still a few cars that specify 3K intervals for severe service, but not many. If you look at countries other than the U.S., the oil recommended change interval is much higher than even the normal interval specified by vehicle manufacturers in the U.S.
Continue to believe whatever you like, but saying that dark oil is how to tell if it's dirty is spreading misinformation. Color can tell you some things about your oil but just because it's black doesn't mean it's dirty or needs to be changed.

Your logic seems kind of flawed to me. What oil analyses tell you is if your oil is doing it's job properly after X number of miles - no more no less. It won't tell you that brand X is better than brand Y, only that it is still good or it's passed it's useful life in lubricating your engine without causing damage after however many miles you've run it. Different people use whatever brand or type they use because of personal preference, keen marketing, price, or sponsorships in the case of the racing teams that you mentioned.

No, I've personally not had any oil related failure. I tend to be **** about some stuff too.

And you really should check your oil at least twice a week.
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Old 10-30-2008, 02:04 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Black Betty View Post
Differ all you want Kahn, but you're just plain wrong about it and you're spreading misinformation. I'm not advocating one brand of oil over another. I personally believe that if you use dollar store .78 cent 5W30 oil you can probably keep your car running for as long as you want to keep it. What I'm saying, no, what people who are experts are saying, is that looking at an oil's color to see how dirty it is or if it needs changing is just plain ignorant.

Excerpts:
http://www.motor-oil-engineers.com/oilcolor.htm
http://www.oilsandlube.com/oil-color.htm

http://www.nordicgroup.us/oil.htm#Th...k%20Oil%20Myth
Continue to believe whatever you like, but saying that dark oil is how to tell if it's dirty is spreading misinformation. Color can tell you some things about your oil but just because it's black doesn't mean it's dirty or needs to be changed.

Your logic seems kind of flawed to me. What oil analyses tell you is if your oil is doing it's job properly after X number of miles - no more no less. It won't tell you that brand X is better than brand Y, only that it is still good or it's passed it's useful life in lubricating your engine without causing damage after however many miles you've run it. Different people use whatever brand or type they use because of personal preference, keen marketing, price, or sponsorships in the case of the racing teams that you mentioned.

No, I've personally not had any oil related failure. I tend to be **** about some stuff too.

And you really should check your oil at least twice a week.
Motul 300v works best for me. I've had slight oil consumption issues with pre-TSB dealer oils including Amsoil. I'm happy with Motul...costs $12 per quart but it solves my problem so far because I drive pretty hard.
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Old 10-30-2008, 12:55 PM
  #37  
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fight fight
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:28 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by shumby View Post
fight fight
Stay out of this, you don't even have a car!
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:28 PM
  #39  
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ouch that hurt
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:35 PM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by shumby View Post
fight fight
No fight. BB obviously has me on the color issue so I'll retract that. I am clearly wrong on that.

HOWEVER, a while back I noticed that the oil in my Alfa started getting "dirty" faster than it should have. Turned out to be a valve adjustment problem. Fixed the valve problem and things went back to normal so there IS some merit in watching the oil color.

BUT...

This whole thing about the "best" oil is nonsense.

BB says he's never had an oil related problem. I've never had an oil related problem. Even the poster who asked if it was time to change oil at 15K miles didn't mention an oil related problem. Nobody else is talking about oil related problems.

Keep it fresh and change filters when you change the oil. Easy as that. Use what you like. If you choose to pay $12 a quart, so be it. I say you wasting your money. But it IS your money and you can spend it your way.

Why don't we talk about the "best" gasoline? That usually starts a little smack talk. Is Shell really better than Cheveron or Texaco? If one oil is better than the rest then the same must hold true for gas, right?
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Old 10-30-2008, 01:45 PM
  #41  
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Originally Posted by KahnQuistador View Post
No fight. BB obviously has me on the color issue so I'll retract that. I am clearly wrong on that.

HOWEVER, a while back I noticed that the oil in my Alfa started getting "dirty" faster than it should have. Turned out to be a valve adjustment problem. Fixed the valve problem and things went back to normal so there IS some merit in watching the oil color.

BUT...

This whole thing about the "best" oil is nonsense.

BB says he's never had an oil related problem. I've never had an oil related problem. Even the poster who asked if it was time to change oil at 15K miles didn't mention an oil related problem. Nobody else is talking about oil related problems.

Keep it fresh and change filters when you change the oil. Easy as that. Use what you like. If you choose to pay $12 a quart, so be it. I say you wasting your money. But it IS your money and you can spend it your way.

Why don't we talk about the "best" gasoline? That usually starts a little smack talk. Is Shell really better than Cheveron or Texaco? If one oil is better than the rest then the same must hold true for gas, right?
We do agree on that point Kahn. I dont think that brand of oil or gasoline really makes a significant difference except in extreme cases. Most would disagree with us. I've been fueling at the cheapest place I can find for many years and get at least 200K out of the last 3 cars I've owned with no engine issues at all.

I've got the ester oil in mine unknowingly on my last oil change at the dealership and found out when I got the bill. I will probably keep it in there and extend change intervals so it may equal out cost wise.

I will keep a pretty good eye on it though with this VVEL 3.7L being a new engine... just in case. I'll probably keep extending my change intervals with the ester oil and post oil analysis for anyone interested so they can see how far they can really push it safely. I'll start at about 7500 miles on this oil and see what it looks like.
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Old 10-30-2008, 02:34 PM
  #42  
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oh lovey dovey right now.
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Old 10-30-2008, 03:07 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Black Betty View Post
I've got the ester oil in mine unknowingly on my last oil change at the dealership and found out when I got the bill. I will probably keep it in there and extend change intervals so it may equal out cost wise.

I will keep a pretty good eye on it though with this VVEL 3.7L being a new engine... just in case. I'll probably keep extending my change intervals with the ester oil and post oil analysis for anyone interested so they can see how far they can really push it safely. I'll start at about 7500 miles on this oil and see what it looks like.
Help me out here. Are you saying you are going to run 7,500 miles on conventional oil? Please remember the Nissan Ester oil is conventional 5W-30 with 1) greater quantities of existing ester additive(s), 2) an additional ester additive, or 3) more than one additional ester additives. But, it is still conventional oil.
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Old 10-30-2008, 03:50 PM
  #44  
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Originally Posted by notalk View Post
Help me out here. Are you saying you are going to run 7,500 miles on conventional oil?
Yes. I know it's not a synthetic. I drive mostly highway miles which as you know put little strain on an engine compared to stop and go, high revving like racing, or driving in extreme weather conditions. Blackstone will tell me if it's a good idea or not.
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Old 10-30-2008, 03:51 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by shumby View Post
oh lovey dovey right now.
Stop being an instigator, Mr. Pedestrian!
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