Cusco Strut Tower Brace Installed
06-09-2012, 11:53 AM
#138
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Yeah, can't say i'm surprised about this. Most of these companies are milking people's money by giving false claims or banking on placebo effects.
How good could the design be if the company did not understand it's purpose?
I had my doubts on these strut bars. For example, if the bar is supposed to transfer a great amount of force, you expect it to be mounted with larger bolts. The Gtspec and Cusco both utilize the strut nuts, which are 8mm torqued to 30 newtons.
The 370z strut bar uses 10 mm bolts torqued to 52 newtons.
How good could the design be if the company did not understand it's purpose?
I had my doubts on these strut bars. For example, if the bar is supposed to transfer a great amount of force, you expect it to be mounted with larger bolts. The Gtspec and Cusco both utilize the strut nuts, which are 8mm torqued to 30 newtons.
The 370z strut bar uses 10 mm bolts torqued to 52 newtons.
you are talking apples to oranges here, you cannot compare the two at all.
one car has been designed with the strut bar in mind, the other without.
Just think about it, if this is SUCH a huge issue, then if you remove the strut bar from a car when it's not in the air, it should have EXTRA force pushing it or holding it in place. This really isn't the case at all with the 370Z, 350Z, etc. I owned a 350z and actually tested multiple strut bars as they were released by various companies, because the shop I worked for owned a Grand Am cup team and we raced 350z's. during all the testing this never once was an issue. Even when the race teams serviced the cars and removed the bars at the pits, we never had to lift the car.
There are a few school's of thought but don't be fooled that only ONE is right.
06-09-2012, 12:16 PM
#139
you are talking apples to oranges here, you cannot compare the two at all.
one car has been designed with the strut bar in mind, the other without.
Just think about it, if this is SUCH a huge issue, then if you remove the strut bar from a car when it's not in the air, it should have EXTRA force pushing it or holding it in place. This really isn't the case at all with the 370Z, 350Z, etc. I owned a 350z and actually tested multiple strut bars as they were released by various companies, because the shop I worked for owned a Grand Am cup team and we raced 350z's. during all the testing this never once was an issue. Even when the race teams serviced the cars and removed the bars at the pits, we never had to lift the car.
There are a few school's of thought but don't be fooled that only ONE is right.
one car has been designed with the strut bar in mind, the other without.
Just think about it, if this is SUCH a huge issue, then if you remove the strut bar from a car when it's not in the air, it should have EXTRA force pushing it or holding it in place. This really isn't the case at all with the 370Z, 350Z, etc. I owned a 350z and actually tested multiple strut bars as they were released by various companies, because the shop I worked for owned a Grand Am cup team and we raced 350z's. during all the testing this never once was an issue. Even when the race teams serviced the cars and removed the bars at the pits, we never had to lift the car.
There are a few school's of thought but don't be fooled that only ONE is right.
According to some posts on my350z, once people removed their strut bar while the car in on the ground, they couldnt put the bar back on unless they adjusted the bar shorter. So this suggest that coming out the factory, the bar is placing a force on the struts and spreading them out.
06-19-2012, 11:27 PM
#140
from my experience with various brands and types of strut bars...the strut tower bar is to be installed with the wheels off the ground....if you ever try installing a strut bar that is not adjustable, u'll find that the holes and bolts don't line up unless the car is on the hoist.
Also keep in mind, when Infiniti/Nissan designed the dimensions of this car, it was designed in a gravity free environment (aka computer). To keep the alignments true, the car should be lifted up before being reinforced by a strut bar....
same thing goes for roll cages...u wouldn't want to install/weld a roll cage while ur car is sitting on the ground....it should be suspended on jack stands or a hoist...
just my 2cents
Also keep in mind, when Infiniti/Nissan designed the dimensions of this car, it was designed in a gravity free environment (aka computer). To keep the alignments true, the car should be lifted up before being reinforced by a strut bar....
same thing goes for roll cages...u wouldn't want to install/weld a roll cage while ur car is sitting on the ground....it should be suspended on jack stands or a hoist...
just my 2cents
06-22-2012, 03:17 PM
#141
There have been a lot of great opinions on both sides of this issue. It makes perfect sense why installing the bar with the weight off the towers would be the right thing to do, but it also makes sense that this could alter the front end geometry and cause alignment problems. All I know is after reading every post on this thread carefully, I am still mind blown.
<a href="http://senorgif.memebase.com/2012/05/31/funny-gifs-mindblown/?utm_source=embed&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=shar ewidget"><img class='event-item-lol-image' src='http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/funny-gifs-mindblown.gif' alt="MINDBLOWN GIF - MINDBLOWN" title="MINDBLOWN GIF - MINDBLOWN" height="203px" width="360px" /></a><br />see more <a href="http://senorgif.memebase.com?utm_source=embed&utm_medium= web&utm_campaign=sharewidget">Gifs</a>
My cusco bar arrives today (thanks to Used2xb) and will probably go on this weekend, so it would be awesome to have a definitive answer. I expect one is not forthcoming though. Damn!
<a href="http://senorgif.memebase.com/2012/05/31/funny-gifs-mindblown/?utm_source=embed&utm_medium=web&utm_campaign=shar ewidget"><img class='event-item-lol-image' src='http://chzgifs.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/funny-gifs-mindblown.gif' alt="MINDBLOWN GIF - MINDBLOWN" title="MINDBLOWN GIF - MINDBLOWN" height="203px" width="360px" /></a><br />see more <a href="http://senorgif.memebase.com?utm_source=embed&utm_medium= web&utm_campaign=sharewidget">Gifs</a>
My cusco bar arrives today (thanks to Used2xb) and will probably go on this weekend, so it would be awesome to have a definitive answer. I expect one is not forthcoming though. Damn!
06-23-2012, 11:29 PM
#142
yea, definitely lots of different opinions and ideas even when it comes to something as simple as installing a strut tower bar....
and yes, by installing it with the weight off the wheels, u'll find that the alignment will be slightly off since when ur car had it's alignment done, the wheels are sitting on the ground....u'll definitely want to redo your front end alignment after any suspension modifications no matter how big/small...that's why you always save up all your parts and install them all at once then do one alignment after
and yes, by installing it with the weight off the wheels, u'll find that the alignment will be slightly off since when ur car had it's alignment done, the wheels are sitting on the ground....u'll definitely want to redo your front end alignment after any suspension modifications no matter how big/small...that's why you always save up all your parts and install them all at once then do one alignment after
06-24-2012, 02:08 PM
#143
yea, definitely lots of different opinions and ideas even when it comes to something as simple as installing a strut tower bar....
and yes, by installing it with the weight off the wheels, u'll find that the alignment will be slightly off since when ur car had it's alignment done, the wheels are sitting on the ground....u'll definitely want to redo your front end alignment after any suspension modifications no matter how big/small...that's why you always save up all your parts and install them all at once then do one alignment after
and yes, by installing it with the weight off the wheels, u'll find that the alignment will be slightly off since when ur car had it's alignment done, the wheels are sitting on the ground....u'll definitely want to redo your front end alignment after any suspension modifications no matter how big/small...that's why you always save up all your parts and install them all at once then do one alignment after
Still undecided as to whether I will preload the bar or install it with the wheels on the ground...
06-24-2012, 03:20 PM
#144
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Seems to me that the bar manufacturer should know how to install it. And it would be based on the design of the bar.
If the bar needs to be preloaded to do it's job....Then maybe a stronger bar would be necessary to do the job unloaded.
And also...
How is the car getting lifted?
Doesn't that come into play? You can torque a unibody in a bunch of different ways depending how you lift it.
just my .02
If the bar needs to be preloaded to do it's job....Then maybe a stronger bar would be necessary to do the job unloaded.
And also...
How is the car getting lifted?
Doesn't that come into play? You can torque a unibody in a bunch of different ways depending how you lift it.
just my .02
06-24-2012, 04:07 PM
#145
Seems to me that the bar manufacturer should know how to install it. And it would be based on the design of the bar.
If the bar needs to be preloaded to do it's job....Then maybe a stronger bar would be necessary to do the job unloaded.
And also...
How is the car getting lifted?
Doesn't that come into play? You can torque a unibody in a bunch of different ways depending how you lift it.
just my .02
If the bar needs to be preloaded to do it's job....Then maybe a stronger bar would be necessary to do the job unloaded.
And also...
How is the car getting lifted?
Doesn't that come into play? You can torque a unibody in a bunch of different ways depending how you lift it.
just my .02
I do agree with your point about lifting the car however. This could come in to play perhaps. I plan to lift the car with my father's professional lift. It is the type with two main posts and arms that extend under the car to lift from 4 lift points.
06-24-2012, 04:17 PM
#146
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My thought was that preloading was to increase initial spread force. Spring loaded so to speak. Instead a relaxed connection between the two towers and then having force applied only while cornering, which would leave room for a small amount of movement due to spring action until bar becomes tight. (The bar is flat and curved so it is more of a leaf spring than a connecting rod in my opinion)
06-24-2012, 04:33 PM
#147
I think I could have installed 2 of these in the time it took me to read through this thread.
After reading through all this, my gut feeling is up on the rack, align it afterward.
It seems like if it can be aligned with the SB loaded, why wouldn't you want to load it? As long as it doesn't break when its further loaded in a turn, it should provide you with a stiffer chassis.
The manufacturer may just say to install it on the ground, because no one ever questioned wether there was a better way. Plus, they know that suggesting lifting the vehicle and alignment, increases the cost of the install, and therefore lowers the number of people that will buy the mod. Often, the generally accepted way of doing things isn't the best way of doing things.
Even though he didn't have any documentation to back up his claim, I think 37heaven is the only one who has installed it this way, and he also happens to be the only one who has stated that he noticed it has made the biggest improvement over all his other suspension enhancements. Everyone else installed it on the ground and noticed negligible improvement.
I live in the Rocky Mountains and have extremely twisty roads surrounding me. By the way, extremely twisty roads are the best mod for the G! I won't be getting my car for a few weeks, but it is a stock x, and I will try the same roads before and after modding to see if 37heaven is right.
After reading through all this, my gut feeling is up on the rack, align it afterward.
It seems like if it can be aligned with the SB loaded, why wouldn't you want to load it? As long as it doesn't break when its further loaded in a turn, it should provide you with a stiffer chassis.
The manufacturer may just say to install it on the ground, because no one ever questioned wether there was a better way. Plus, they know that suggesting lifting the vehicle and alignment, increases the cost of the install, and therefore lowers the number of people that will buy the mod. Often, the generally accepted way of doing things isn't the best way of doing things.
Even though he didn't have any documentation to back up his claim, I think 37heaven is the only one who has installed it this way, and he also happens to be the only one who has stated that he noticed it has made the biggest improvement over all his other suspension enhancements. Everyone else installed it on the ground and noticed negligible improvement.
I live in the Rocky Mountains and have extremely twisty roads surrounding me. By the way, extremely twisty roads are the best mod for the G! I won't be getting my car for a few weeks, but it is a stock x, and I will try the same roads before and after modding to see if 37heaven is right.
06-25-2012, 01:31 PM
#149
Here is the deal guys, I just got off the phone with my shop who does all the work on my Car. Also you should call GTM they will tell you the same.
My GTSpec Brace was installed Preloaded! They said that is what it's for. The bar is to keep the front load even and keep the frontend from flexing under hard turns.
So maybe the Cusco bar is not able to take preload.. If you go to GTSpec website they don't give any direction on how to install it.
But yes my shop preloaded mine at time of install.
My GTSpec Brace was installed Preloaded! They said that is what it's for. The bar is to keep the front load even and keep the frontend from flexing under hard turns.
So maybe the Cusco bar is not able to take preload.. If you go to GTSpec website they don't give any direction on how to install it.
But yes my shop preloaded mine at time of install.
