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I'm sure over 60% of the population over there knows how to drive a manual. Whereas here in the states probably 20% or less 3% knows how to drive a manual.
^ yup, it's annoying that Genesis only paired the 6MT with the 2.0T. trust me, i know. that said, the overall package is outstanding, especially in CAD where we get way more Sport/luxury goodies than the US trim. interestingly, the 6MT trim is NOT the cheapest trim. and real world power/acceleration (aside from off the line 1st gear) is more than enough to stay ahead of most. including my old G37S 6MT, up until mid-way through 4th gear when the G37 pulls away. but that's at 100+mph which constitutes a very low % of actual driving for obvious reasons. i did side-by-side comparo before selling the G37. instrumented test data is all over the map, with other media sources having the G70 @ 6.2s 0-60 which still isn't great, but again the G70 gearing is long in 1st which hurts off the line times. my old G35 6MT sedan with 260/260 and similar weight was ~5.8-5.9 0-60, which is where the G70 should be, but gearing kills that.
there's a lot of area under the curve with 260 ft.lb @ 1400rpm compared to the G37 with 269 @ ~4500 (iirc). the 3.3T along with 6MT would be sweet, but Genesis is not about to R&D a new gearbox for such a low volume trim. they already had access to a 6MT from the new Hyundai N models.
as for the Accord 2.0T 6MT, go test drive one. i did. sure, they are quick off the line - and the front tires let you know that, especially if there are any curves in the road under heavy throttle. but then there's everything else about it. feeling like you're driving a barn for one, cheap plastics abound for another, and on and on. far too many compromises for this guy for 0-60 bragging rights. there's just nothing that feels special about it. just don't ask the Honda sales team since their pitch is basically "these Hondas sell themselves, we don't need to". reminds me of the lazy realtors in Vancouver during all the foreign buyer speculation.
of course i am biased, but i wholeheartedly agree that the G70 6MT platform deserves the big engine. i still find that what Infiniti did with the G37S 6MT Sedan trim packaging was the best execution. they knew that executive enthusiasts would pay for a top trim (read: higher margins for Nissan) when paired with a 6MT. the 6MT package came 'loaded' which was perfect out of the box in its day. like having the cake and eating it too. nowadays, the 6MT loyalists have to compromise in almost all cases. the Acura TL 6MT was similar to the G37, only available on top trim, but it was the FWD TL and hideous so no go.
I understand your perspective, but I disagree with your assumptions on the G70 vs G37 vs Accord. Plenty of people are into the 13s on bone stock accord 2.0Ts. I totally get that it's about more than 0-60, but IMO the G70 is under powered for what it is, and it will show stoplight to stoplight, and that may, or may not, be a high priority.
Unless you're talking about the first generation TL, the second gen 6MT was only available with the SH-AWD.
Agreed. Coming from the Maxima, I've always had a lot of respect for the Acura TL. Never got to drive the SH-AWD 6MT, and always wanted to.
Man, I miss the Acura of yesteryear. The RSX, TSX, and TL were such sweet, reliable cars. I beat the snot out of my little RSX-S and it never skipped a beat. A couple years later after selling it, I pulled up to it at a stoplight and chatted with the owner, letting him know I was the previous owner. He said it was still going strong, but unfortunately he riced it out with a fartcan and stickers....poor little car.
The 2012 SH-AWD 6MT was a strong contender alongside the G37, but I'm glad I went with the G37. From what I understand, they're not as fun to drive and offer next to nothing for aftermarket support. Though I did see a lightly modified one on the way to work the other day, it sounded surprisingly good!
If only Acura could return to its former glory; they're boring and disappointing nowadays (aside from the new NSX).
I beat the snot out of my little RSX-S and it never skipped a beat.
Exactly my experience with a brand new 1992 Nissan 240SX SE 5MT. Seven years, 80K miles, and I drove it like I stole it. Not a single mechanical problem. Perfect little drivers car.
I understand your perspective, but I disagree with your assumptions on the G70 vs G37 vs Accord. Plenty of people are into the 13s on bone stock accord 2.0Ts. I totally get that it's about more than 0-60, but IMO the G70 is under powered for what it is, and it will show stoplight to stoplight, and that may, or may not, be a high priority.
Unless you're talking about the first generation TL, the second gen 6MT was only available with the SH-AWD.
^ agreed about the G70 6MT being under powered from what the chassis deserves. no question - at least for the enthusiast. for the accord, again, there's no question that it is quick in a straight line. so if that is king to someone, and they can live with the other compromises of the Accord package, that may be a better fit. seems crazy to me, but it is what it is and it's great to have a choice. stoplight to stoplight was important to me when i was 19 and watching Vin Diesel live his life a 1/4 mile at a time. others are different and still prioritize those metrics.
my comparison against the G37 was based not on assumptions but on empirical testing, albeit amateur and not instrumented. but i suspect almost everyone on this forum is in the same category. few track their cars so few have hard data. i did 1/2 dozen roll-on sprints from gear 2-4, side by side with a car guy friend. launch and traction were ruled out as variables. i consider this to be the heart of useable street / highway performance (ok, top end 4th gear is a bit much). imo, jackrabbit launches are for kids. same result each time with the G70 pulling ~1 car length until the ~top end of 4th when the G37 came into its own...and sounded awesome as it passed by. damn i miss the VQ sound.
my comparison against the G37 was based not on assumptions but on empirical testing, albeit amateur and not instrumented. but i suspect almost everyone on this forum is in the same category. few track their cars so few have hard data. i did 1/2 dozen roll-on sprints from gear 2-4, side by side with a car guy friend. launch and traction were ruled out as variables. i consider this to be the heart of useable street / highway performance (ok, top end 4th gear is a bit much).
I have far more 0-50/60 opportunities on a day to day basis than 2nd-4 rolls. Second tops out at like 65, so I had limited opportunity to get much beyond that, as redline in 3rd is beyond just about every speed limit in my AO.
Originally Posted by canucklehead
imo, jackrabbit launches are for kids. same result each time with the G70 pulling ~1 car length until the ~top end of 4th when the G37 came into its own...and sounded awesome as it passed by. damn i miss the VQ sound.
I'm a kid at heart
I'll agree, however, that a good NA V6 sounds better than a turbo 4.
I understand your perspective, but I disagree with your assumptions on the G70 vs G37 vs Accord. Plenty of people are into the 13s on bone stock accord 2.0Ts. I totally get that it's about more than 0-60, but IMO the G70 is under powered for what it is, and it will show stoplight to stoplight, and that may, or may not, be a high priority.
Unless you're talking about the first generation TL, the second gen 6MT was only available with the SH-AWD.
04-06 base model TL were available in a 6 spd or 5at
What! The 3rd generation TL was easily the best looking model to date.
This is hideous??
^ i don't know the TL generations, but i was comparing the same timelines as the G37S 6MT sedan. so ~'10-'12 model years.
as in this, which i do consider to be fugly:
AWD or not, they were front heavy with long front overhangs and drivetrain geometry based on FWD platforms w/horizontal engine configurations. as far as i know they were FWD until slip was triggered or if SH vectoring was needed. regardless, it's FWD-biased. tough to compare with the RWD-biased G37 setup in my books.
i still find that what Infiniti did with the G37S 6MT Sedan trim packaging was the best execution. they knew that executive enthusiasts would pay for a top trim (read: higher margins for Nissan) when paired with a 6MT. the 6MT package came 'loaded' which was perfect out of the box in its day. like having the cake and eating it too.
Dang, never thought of it that way, but totally agree. The G37 6MT was low volume for sure, but they padded that by making all of them fully-loaded. Great execution indeed.
Also interesting term, "executive enthusiasts." Folks that are willing to spend more, but old enough to know what a stick shift is, and prefer it. Obviously cars with manuals are quickly fading away, but I wonder how quickly the folks that want to drive them will follow suit. Clearly plenty of stalwarts on the forums.
I assume most kids born after 2000 or so have very little to no interest in a manual transmission.
01-18-2019, 01:20 PM
