What vehicle will be a worthy replacement for your sedan when it is time?
01-15-2019, 12:02 PM
#1516
Administrator
iTrader: (9)
I love the Stelvio. Went on and on about it here last Fall, test driving it right after the Mecan S.
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guy from norcal (01-15-2019)
01-15-2019, 03:24 PM
#1518
2019 STi S209
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ototype-driven
Subaru targeted the ATS-V Lightening Lap time at VIR, and apparently are within a couple tenths with a pre-production version. I think this sets the bar for the next STi at 340HP.....lets hope it's less than the estimated $60-65K of this, because that's a lot of coin for a glorified Subaru Impreza.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ototype-driven
Subaru targeted the ATS-V Lightening Lap time at VIR, and apparently are within a couple tenths with a pre-production version. I think this sets the bar for the next STi at 340HP.....lets hope it's less than the estimated $60-65K of this, because that's a lot of coin for a glorified Subaru Impreza.
01-15-2019, 06:40 PM
#1519
2019 STi S209
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ototype-driven
Subaru targeted the ATS-V Lightening Lap time at VIR, and apparently are within a couple tenths with a pre-production version. I think this sets the bar for the next STi at 340HP.....lets hope it's less than the estimated $60-65K of this, because that's a lot of coin for a glorified Subaru Impreza.
https://www.caranddriver.com/reviews...ototype-driven
Subaru targeted the ATS-V Lightening Lap time at VIR, and apparently are within a couple tenths with a pre-production version. I think this sets the bar for the next STi at 340HP.....lets hope it's less than the estimated $60-65K of this, because that's a lot of coin for a glorified Subaru Impreza.
01-15-2019, 07:15 PM
#1520
The car gets an additional 15 hp after being gone for almost 20 years and it has an ugly front end and no manual transmission? Hard pass. I am sure the car will be capable of making lots of power, but why would anyone buy this for $50k when you can get a 370Z with the same power for $20k less?
01-15-2019, 07:38 PM
#1521
Registered Member
The car gets an additional 15 hp after being gone for almost 20 years and it has an ugly front end and no manual transmission? Hard pass. I am sure the car will be capable of making lots of power, but why would anyone buy this for $50k when you can get a 370Z with the same power for $20k less?
The Mustang GT350 makes 526hp and does 0-60 in 4.0-4.3 seconds.
The Supra "only" makes 335hp and toyota claims 0-60 in 4.1 seconds.
Lol maybe I'm a bit biased since I work for Toyota and I just really want this car to be that proper "sports car" that we haven't had in forever. The only recent car that comes to mind with a Toyota badge that was "sporty" was a Celica GT-S and MR-2. /palmface . I would like to see how this Supra holds value and what kind of reliability issues will arise since it is a BMW powertrain afterall. Going to be interesting to see how things turn out in the long run..
On a side note, a friend of mine that works for Lexus says they are bringing back the Lexus IS-F and it will be powered by the same power plant found in the current LS500 which is a 3.5L V6 Twin-Turbo.
Currently in the LS500 it's rated at
416 hp @ 6000 rpm
442 ft-lbs. @ 1600 rpm
The first gen IS-F was also rated at 416hp. They ditched the IS-F for the 2014 year model and instead introduced the RC-F and GS-F that still uses the 5.0 but produces 467hp instead. So maybe a 450-480hp next gen IS-F coming soon?
Also the next gen Lexus IS350 will be getting a turbo.
01-15-2019, 09:30 PM
#1522
A 370z/G37 isn't making the same power as the new Supra. They're rated at ~330hp but make maybe 280whp most stock The B58 motor is under rated from factory. It is in the 340i/440i and numerous other new BMWs. BMW rates that motor at 320hp. It makes about 320-330 hp to the wheels. You can bet the new Supra is also making 320-330 to the wheels which translates to roughly 380-400 crank horsepower.
The Mustang GT350 makes 526hp and does 0-60 in 4.0-4.3 seconds.
The Supra "only" makes 335hp and toyota claims 0-60 in 4.1 seconds.
Lol maybe I'm a bit biased since I work for Toyota and I just really want this car to be that proper "sports car" that we haven't had in forever. The only recent car that comes to mind with a Toyota badge that was "sporty" was a Celica GT-S and MR-2. /palmface . I would like to see how this Supra holds value and what kind of reliability issues will arise since it is a BMW powertrain afterall. Going to be interesting to see how things turn out in the long run..
The Mustang GT350 makes 526hp and does 0-60 in 4.0-4.3 seconds.
The Supra "only" makes 335hp and toyota claims 0-60 in 4.1 seconds.
Lol maybe I'm a bit biased since I work for Toyota and I just really want this car to be that proper "sports car" that we haven't had in forever. The only recent car that comes to mind with a Toyota badge that was "sporty" was a Celica GT-S and MR-2. /palmface . I would like to see how this Supra holds value and what kind of reliability issues will arise since it is a BMW powertrain afterall. Going to be interesting to see how things turn out in the long run..
Yes, clearly you are quite biased working for Toyota if you think that looking at 0-60 times between the Supra and GT350 are an indicator of overall performance. The Mustang is traction limited and is a stick shift. The Supra is lighter, has a good amount of torque, a DCT, and launch control. Take a look at the 5-60, quarter mile, and top speeds and the results will be very different. Or take them both to a race track and see which one laps faster and holds up longer. This is like comparing a lower 0-60 time of an AWD car to a RWD car and expecting the AWD car to be able to perform better elsewhere. Take a look at the RS3 for example.
01-15-2019, 10:46 PM
#1523
Registered Member
The engine may be a bit underrated in the Supra, but if you think it is making 380-400 hp at the crank, why wouldn't you get a 370Z and a 400 hp package and still be about $20k less? I am sure the inline 6 turbo BMW engine will be easy to make gobs of power with like the last gen and I hope it handles well, but only bringing an additional 15 hp to the table after almost 20 years away from the game is pathetic. With a front end only a mother could love and no manual, it is not the car for me.
Yes, clearly you are quite biased working for Toyota if you think that looking at 0-60 times between the Supra and GT350 are an indicator of overall performance. The Mustang is traction limited and is a stick shift. The Supra is lighter, has a good amount of torque, a DCT, and launch control. Take a look at the 5-60, quarter mile, and top speeds and the results will be very different. Or take them both to a race track and see which one laps faster and holds up longer. This is like comparing a lower 0-60 time of an AWD car to a RWD car and expecting the AWD car to be able to perform better elsewhere. Take a look at the RS3 for example.
Yes, clearly you are quite biased working for Toyota if you think that looking at 0-60 times between the Supra and GT350 are an indicator of overall performance. The Mustang is traction limited and is a stick shift. The Supra is lighter, has a good amount of torque, a DCT, and launch control. Take a look at the 5-60, quarter mile, and top speeds and the results will be very different. Or take them both to a race track and see which one laps faster and holds up longer. This is like comparing a lower 0-60 time of an AWD car to a RWD car and expecting the AWD car to be able to perform better elsewhere. Take a look at the RS3 for example.
I would only consider buying it 2nd hand used in the 4+ year old range. By then it will be much more affordable and should have a good aftermarket support.
The old Supra was a good performer for its era bone stock, however what really made it popular was the aftermarket support that car had to make power.
I can see this new supra being much alike. Decent performer stock but where it will shine is once aftermarket support starts rolling in full effect.
Finding manual sports cars in this era is just getting harder and harder. Even the new GT500 is only available in a auto with no manual
01-16-2019, 08:49 AM
#1524
Looks and transmission aside, the use of a BMW power plant isn't what makes an enthusiast bulk but everything around said power plant. I'm just very surprised Toyota didn't use their own when they have so many options available to them. IMO, hoping this car depreciates to the $25-35k point in the next few years is a bit unrealistic. Anyone who purchases this car, and goes onto sell it, will most certainly be throwing the fanboy tax on their price. No different than what Subaru owners do. By then, either this car will be an enormous disappointment to the Supra name or another option will prove to be worthy of your affection.
After the S3 was mentioned I looked into the price of slightly used models (2 years < 20k miles) and modding potential and for <$35k a APR stage II S3 is very appealing.
After the S3 was mentioned I looked into the price of slightly used models (2 years < 20k miles) and modding potential and for <$35k a APR stage II S3 is very appealing.
01-16-2019, 10:06 AM
#1525
Registered Member
Looks and transmission aside, the use of a BMW power plant isn't what makes an enthusiast bulk but everything around said power plant. I'm just very surprised Toyota didn't use their own when they have so many options available to them. IMO, hoping this car depreciates to the $25-35k point in the next few years is a bit unrealistic. Anyone who purchases this car, and goes onto sell it, will most certainly be throwing the fanboy tax on their price. No different than what Subaru owners do. By then, either this car will be an enormous disappointment to the Supra name or another option will prove to be worthy of your affection.
After the S3 was mentioned I looked into the price of slightly used models (2 years < 20k miles) and modding potential and for <$35k a APR stage II S3 is very appealing.
After the S3 was mentioned I looked into the price of slightly used models (2 years < 20k miles) and modding potential and for <$35k a APR stage II S3 is very appealing.
The 2jz back in the day was used in other cars besides the supra.
01-16-2019, 10:29 AM
#1527
Why not? Isn't that what Nissan did with the 3.8**VR in the R35?
Anyways, I was thinking they'd tap their pals Lexus on the shoulder and ask if they could inject one of their power plants into the Supra. The car doesn't need to use a I6 engine does it? It would be a V6 design but at least it would be in-house and not a joint venture with BMW and the possible reliability questions that go along with them. I understand the collaboration for a BRZ/86 model but not the re-introduction of a halo car.
Just my .02 pennies.
Edit: 3.8...not 3.0
Anyways, I was thinking they'd tap their pals Lexus on the shoulder and ask if they could inject one of their power plants into the Supra. The car doesn't need to use a I6 engine does it? It would be a V6 design but at least it would be in-house and not a joint venture with BMW and the possible reliability questions that go along with them. I understand the collaboration for a BRZ/86 model but not the re-introduction of a halo car.
Just my .02 pennies.
Edit: 3.8...not 3.0
01-16-2019, 10:37 AM
#1528
Registered Member
Why not? Isn't that what Nissan did with the 3.8**VR in the R35?
Anyways, I was thinking they'd tap their pals Lexus on the shoulder and ask if they could inject one of their power plants into the Supra. The car doesn't need to use a I6 engine does it? It would be a V6 design but at least it would be in-house and not a joint venture with BMW and the possible reliability questions that go along with them. I understand the collaboration for a BRZ/86 model but not the re-introduction of a halo car.
Just my .02 pennies.
Edit: 3.8...not 3.0
Anyways, I was thinking they'd tap their pals Lexus on the shoulder and ask if they could inject one of their power plants into the Supra. The car doesn't need to use a I6 engine does it? It would be a V6 design but at least it would be in-house and not a joint venture with BMW and the possible reliability questions that go along with them. I understand the collaboration for a BRZ/86 model but not the re-introduction of a halo car.
Just my .02 pennies.
Edit: 3.8...not 3.0
01-16-2019, 11:16 AM
#1530
Administrator
iTrader: (9)
Remember the Yamaha engine in the original Taurus SHO? Remember the Oldsmobile 403 in the '79 Trans Am? I think this is done more often than we know.
Meh, don't care. Sports car without a 6MT, and it looks like pooh. Kind of how I feel about the current Infiniti Q60.
Meh, don't care. Sports car without a 6MT, and it looks like pooh. Kind of how I feel about the current Infiniti Q60.