2010G37

Did you read through the posts above? This exact point has been addressed several times above.

RMB5190

iTrader: (2)

Did a quick search and just about every recommendation, from Z forums to this one, recommends the service before 100k miles and it varies from 30-60k miles. That's not what you asked for so I went looking for customer interactions and found something worth taking into consideration. The customer brought his car in for the TSB on the TCM, a common headache as you pointed out, and the dealership serviced his transmission. When he asked why, he received the following from the service manager:

'Thank you for allowing Beaverton Infiniti to service your vehicle and for taking the time to fill out the survey. We collect this information so that we can continually refine our processes to provide “Truly Exceptional” service for all of our customers.

In response to your concerns regarding the transmission service, I apologize. The Transmission fluid replacement is not a requirement by Infiniti and by no means had the fluid failed. The fluid becoming dark in color is normal and Infiniti provides information in our manuals stating so. Though Infiniti indicates the fluid does not need replacing, we offer it as a Dealer Recommendation because of the region in which we live. Because of the hilly conditions we live in we feel the fluid should be serviced every 30,000 miles to insure the transmission continues to function properly long beyond the warranty. The fluid is replaced because of the material that is suspended in it. Over time, due to normal wear on the transmission components, clutch material and metal shavings are suspended in the fluid. Though the transmission fluid does not break down, it still contains this debris which is eliminated with fluid replacement. This is only a dealer recommendation and not a requirement to keep your vehicle in compliance for the warranty. The service we offered should have been presented as a mileage recommendation only. The inspection report that is used by the technicians adds verbage to describe the reason a service is recommended.

I am sorry that our service department did not make our service recommendations more clear when presenting them to you. I have issued a credit of $254.95 to your credit card for your transmission service.

Thank you again for your business.'

Source: https://www.reddit.com/r/infiniti/co...ed_on_the_7at/

Take it for what it is, but if the service recommended to the dealers is every 30k for hilly conditions then those who aren't driving in the same conditions will probably be safe to do the service around 40-50k. Like you said, the color isn't the concern but the metal fragments are something you don't want bouncing around for 100k miles. You can even see them in the DIY link I posted.

The main thing about the above statement that stuck out to me was "...function properly long beyond the warranty." It could just be me, but that seems like foreshadowing.

slartibartfast

iTrader: (7)

This is getting rather pointless. To each is own.

Baadnewsburr

iTrader: (3)

^^

Indeed

2010G37

This is the best that you've been able to come up with?! What happened to "Seems like everyone who doesn't do it or buys a G that has never had it done blow the transmission up around the 100k mile mark." So, who are all these G37 owners with failed transmissions?

Debating vehicle maintenance intervals is perfectly fine, and is what all these online car forums are all about. All that I ask is that posters do not mislead readers about the basis for their recommendations. Hence, what is not fine is to claim that people who do not follow these service intervals end up with failed transmissions, as there are actually no reports of transmission failures on the G37.

G37xS-Life

Agree with you completely.

blnewt

iTrader: (13)

I've read through all the posts, and I stand by what I said. I changed mine, and I'll do it again when I feel I should. If you decide to run the ATF till you sell the G or when it's time for it to go out to pasture that's your decision. And sure, your AT may be trouble free for as long as you drive your car, but lifetime fluid is most definitely a misnomer.



FWIW, if you were to do the 3x drain & fill along w/ cleaning out the pan & magnets I think you may change your mind, but ???


All these points have been addressed in other threads too, take whatever path you feel you you need to take.

2010G37

In that case, surely you have seen that my primary objection is to the unquestionably false statements that were used to justify these recommendation. Namely, statements along the lines of "Seems like everyone who doesn't do it or buys a G that has never had it done blow the transmission up around the 100k mile mark."

The statement above is categorically false, as there are no threads, either on this forum or the other ones, complaining about transmission failures on the G37.

See, this is once again a total mischaracterization of this discussion.

You incorrectly present the choice as rolling of the dice, all while failing to mention any of the well known downsides of doing a transmission flush/drain and fill, which can stir up metal shavings and actually contribute to a premature transmission failure. Likewise, you fail to mention the fact that although hundreds of thousands of G37 have been sold, quite a few have hundreds of thousands of miles on the odometer, and the vast majority of them do not have their transmission fluids replaced (and those that do only have 1X flushes performed), there have been no reports of any transmission failures, so perhaps the Infiniti engineers know something that you don't.

Instead, when presented with the above facts, I got responses above that attempted to justify the recommendation by claiming that people might be missing transmission failures (!!!), that transmission fluid is dark when it comes out (a normal condition that happens between 2K and 3K miles and does not affect any of its chemical properties), and that the G37's only have 75K miles on them, max (!!!).

In general, a standard sales tactic used to justify a ton of purchases is to scare you by mentioning an expensive eventuality that a purchase can protect against. What is then never mentioned is the probability that this eventuality will materialize, and probability is an essential element of these decisions, as that is what makes some purchases worthwhile and others a terrible waste of money. Hence, the reason that this particular discussion is also so misleading, as it fails to mention any of the facts that I've brought up, such as the fact that the G37 transmissions have been rock solid, that a failed transmission on the G37 is virtually unheard of, and that a transmission flush/drain and fill can actually contribute to a premature transmission failure. Instead, this and other threads on this subject are full of one sided statements about the expense of a new transmission and false statements suggesting that people are experiencing transmission failures en masse.

blnewt

iTrader: (13)

If you've read my postings I ALWAYS state that the FSM procedure is a 3x drain & fill, NEVER to pressure flush the transmission. And I do agree w/ your assessment regarding AT failures, they aren't common and there are many AT equipped Gs on the road w/ 100k plus miles. Because something doesn't fail doesn't mean that servicing the AT isn't something that's beneficial. And hopefully you do agree that lubricating fluids do break down over time, if you don't well maybe there's some new revolutionary ATF that I'm not aware of.


Any yes, Infiniti engineers know plenty that I don't But maybe, just maybe they rationalize the "life" of the AT (and other moving parts) within in a finite life, but it's a better selling point (for initial sales, and sales of future vehicles) to state that the AT is sealed and the ATF is a lifetime fluid.


I appreciate your passion on this, I truly do, but if you were to see the sludge & buildup in the pan maybe you'd think the lifetime is a bit shorter???


FWIW I've done ATF service on my 2000 Maxima and using the Dexron fluid that pan/magnet residue was quite a bit worse, so the Matic S does seem to be a nice improvement regarding that, but still, there was quite a bit in the G pan/magnets.

2010G37

This, I wholeheartedly agree with and is a very fair statement. Frankly, I don't feel strongly about this particular issue. What I do feel strongly about is having an objective discussion that mentions potential benefits and risks of both strategies and stays away from clearly false statements, such as the ones that I quoted above, and fear mongering along the lines of "Seems like everyone who doesn't do it or buys a G that has never had it done blow the transmission up around the 100k mile mark," when the reality on the ground is the exact opposite.

All lubricating fluids do break down over time, but this rather self evident statement does not tell you what to do, as you need to know how long that is. Otherwise, how would you come up with a service interval? To me, the answer is far, far, far in excess of 100,000 miles, as evidenced by the fact that hundreds of thousands of G37 have been sold, quite a few have hundreds of thousands of miles on them, and the vast majority of them either follow the Infiniti recommendation not to replace the fluid or have only had 1X flushes. Yet, the transmissions on the G37 have been rock solid and transmission failures on them are virtually unheard of.

As I've also mentioned above, the downsides of a transmission fluid replacement on the G37 isn't just the cost, but the very real possibility that the technicians, who do not routinely perform this service on the G37, end up doing it the wrong way (just because you specify drain and fill does not mean that the transmission won't be flushed instead), stir up the debris and actually cause a transmission failure. To me, given the fact that there is no compelling reason (because transmissions are not failing) to go against Infiniti's recommendation and to replace the transmission fluid in the first place, the risks outweigh the rewards. Having said that, if you do feel comfortable that a 3X drain and fill would be properly completed, then doing so would be fine.

If this finite life is something like 400K miles, then you might as well call it lifetime. This is my exact point, as a self evident statement that all fluids break down over time doesn't tell you much without knowing what that time period is.

I've previously addressed the argument that Infiniti is using the "lifetime" label to improve its initial vehicle sales, while not caring about what happens to them after the warranty ends. As I mentioned above, this exact argument has always been used in all service interval debates, and BMW, Mercedes and Porsche were previously accused, for instance, of only recommending extended synthetic oil change intervals because engine problems would not manifest themselves long after their respective warranties would end. In reality, all manufacturers do care a great deal about their vehicles' long term reliability, as if directly affects depreciation, and depreciation has a very significant effect on new vehicle sales. For instance, a perception of long term reliability is a key factor that drives a ton of sales for Honda (and Acura) and Toyota (and Lexus).

Regardless, I care a lot less about all these theories on both sides, and a lot more about the absence of any transmission failures on the G37. Most people don't really care about how Infiniti did it, but the rock solid nature of the G37 transmissions speaks for itself, and is all that most people need to know about this debate.

blnewt

iTrader: (13)

I appreciate your thorough explanations, the one thing I'd like to clarify, and my reason for stating the service being beneficial. In my own experience w/ my G was stronger shift points and less hunting after the 3x D&F w/ pan clean. Prior to the change in hot ambient temps the trans shifting would be softer, and more indecisive in it's overall operation. After the service the shift performance was noticeably improved. So in my observations regarding my particular vehicle, I would recommend this. This is not to say that my transmission would have gone down the road to earlier failure, but there was a benefit in my case to doing this. YMMV

slartibartfast

iTrader: (7)

Level10 will disagree with you about "rock solid". But then, those failures are usually on boosted cars.

I coudn't care less about fluid life, instead I utterly abhor the transmission's shift programming and inability to handle heat. I can only get one track session in before the stupid thing starts upshifting on its own and refusing downshifts while in manual mode. This is with a supplemental liquid-to-air exchanger in series with the radiator's exchanger, mind you. If a magic fluid would help, I'd be all over it like white on rice.