ezbme

I don't know why Alfa won't take orders for 6mt Giulia's here. As for the Supra, this one is nice. I hear they have a manual, but I haven't seen one yet. https://www.cars.com/vehicledetail/d...1688/overview/

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

Recently, I had a chance to drive a Golf R again and maybe the first time with the DSG transmission. I had forgotten how good this car is as a daily driver, a sleeper, and just plain fun. On a number of occasions I compared it to the M3 and surprisingly I liked the Golf R better most of the time.


From a styling perspective I think this is the best angle, but you do have to like hatchbacks. It has nice clean lines and subdued sleeper styling, but it does not look as good next to a G37 sedan. It does look sportier in pretty much any color other than this gray. Why do people buy sports cars in a boring color like gray anyway?




From this angle the back end looks like a roller skate to me. I used to really like the GTI styling, but maybe I have grown out of it or maybe it is just not aggressive enough for me anymore. Then again, you can always get an S3 which is essentially the same car with sedan styling, but without the practicality.

I really dig the pop up headlight washers and the J-shaped DRLs. Front and rear sonar is pretty cool as is the system where the door unlocks just before you pull the handle if you don't open it too quickly (no buttons needed like our cars). Unfortunately, you cannot roll down the windows on a hot summer day with the remote before you get to the car like on the G37. I think you may still be able to do that with the key in the door, but that requires removing a cover from the door handle and it is quicker to just open the door. I just noticed it has black mirror covers.




Not much to look at under the hood, but the engine and DSG are great (and I am no fan of A/T). I forgot how much fun low end torque from a turbo is. I have no doubt that there are many point and shoot opportunities with in town driving that this car is already faster than my G37 even though it is stock and mine is heavily modified. A lot more power is easy to obtain with a simple tune from APR. I was surprised by how much I liked the transmission. Much better and significantly smoother than the M3 dual clutch in every mode. Maybe it is just that my left knee is currently injured and I have been giving some thought to GT-R's lately that this transmission seemed nice.




I really dig the 19" wheels on this car. I think they look nice and clean. The tire size reminds me that you cannot go too wide with these fenders. The brakes are fine on the street and would probably hold up ok on the track for a while, but sliding calipers can be a pain to change brake pads for track days compared to our Akebono brakes. The AWD would sure be nice to have in our WI winters though. It also allows you to be a bit sloppier driver and apply the throttle earlier. Not sure how I feel about that.




The back end has a nice clean design with just a touch of sporty with the quad tips. On the street it is nice and quiet, but you really cannot hear the engine much even with the sound generator in the cabin in "Race" mode and inline 4 cylinders sound like garbage with an aftermarket exhaust.




Those clever Germans. The VW emblem pops up in reverse to reveal the rear view camera and it tucks away in normal driving to keep the lens clean. Genius!




Look at all of that cargo volume guys! And what is that? A fold down rear seat- awesome!! I keep telling myself I want a fold down rear seat so that I can put my mountain bike in the car. Then I realize that I transport it only a couple of times a year, if that.




The interior on the Golf R is a really nice place to be, especially for a mainstream manufacturer. Really not that different than an Audi in here. The fake carbon trim actually looks nice, everything is logically laid out, the Fender stereo is great, and the seats are very supportive, comfortable, and easy to get in and out. How did they do that with the seats?




The gauges are well laid out and you have a number of info screens to choose from including a lap timer and oil temp so you can keep an eye on that and coolant temp at the same time for you track guys. Wish we could do this in our cars. This alone gives you more performance info. than the much more track ready M3, which I find very odd. The lap timer is a bit clumsy to operate though and is duplicated in the info. screen in the center console, but they both operate independently- very strange.




This performance monitor really gives you more information than the similar set up in the M3 which is also smaller and further away so it is more difficult to read. You can also swipe up and down to pick which information you want displayed. Very slick and easy to read.




Once you pick the screens you want it makes the one in the center larger and easier to read. That is a nice little detail. I just wish they were up higher and closer to your line of sight instead of the middle of the dash.




Here is the lap timer screen. Larger than the one in the dashboard, but even clumsier to use. I don't think VW did their homework on this feature or they only planned for people to use it for one run at the dragstrip. It needs to be quick and easy to operate for track days. Another good improvement would be to use the navigation to recognize race tracks and your position so it could automatically give you an exact lap time. Or at least they could have let you set a "start/finish" line so it would calculate lap times. Good luck getting accurate lap times by trying to remember to hit a button at the exact same position on the track every lap.




Now onto minute details that not many people will notice. The storage area here is perfect for hiding AND charging a phone and even has a rubber pad to keep it from sliding around. The "mode" button to the left of the shifter changes the steering, throttle, shifting, exhaust, suspension, and even the adaptive cruise control (why?) between "comfort," "normal," "race," and "custom." You can really feel the change in suspension settings and it rides much better than the M3 in every setting- even Race. In fact, the Race setting here is about equal to the M3 comfort mode if memory serves me correctly. The throttle is also noticeably different. The other settings are pretty mild changes.

One major design flaw with the "mode" button. It is way too close to the "start/stop" button. I came close to hitting the wrong button a number of times and I can see people easily making this mistake if they want to change modes. This is one thing the M3 does better with designated M buttons right on the steering wheel. Then again, that car needs them because there are way too many setting changes available.



I bet a lot more thought went into the layout of this simple area of the car than most manufacturers spend on much more important areas of the car. The key fits perfectly in the spot above the power outlet. The cupholder cover has just the right amount of room for my phone and is soft touch so it doesn't slide and you can power it up right next to it. This is where I leave it with my track time lap open on lapping days in my G37, but now that I think about it I would probably just hide the phone and cord in the storage area in front of the shifter.

With the 6spd. you also don't hit your elbow on the armrest. (How many car companies have gotten that little detail completely wrong?) The center armrest slides forward and backward- nice touch, but oddly it does not open like it does on the GTI. If I remember correctly, this is due to the driveshaft taking up a fair amount of that space. There is a way to open this, but I think it leads to an unfinished and small compartment.



So to wrap up, the Golf R is the perfect performance daily driver and probably more car than any of us really need. If you live in a state that has a real winter, then the AWD is also a huge bonus. Perhaps you like the styling better of a sedan? No problem, you can always buy its cousin, the Audi S3. It is not the perfect track car, but could easily be made into a car that is perfectly capable to put a big smile on your face and surprise a good number of people at the track. For a car that will be mostly a daily driver, the Golf R is pretty tough to beat. In fact, it makes me think that anyone who buys an M3/M4 for this reason does it only because they have more bills in their pocket than brains in their head.

STownSaint

Wow, nice write-up. Your attention to detail is auto-journalist level. Interesting to see more than a few folks go from G37 to VW Golf, being a cross-segment move and all.

Similar to the WRX, the VW Golf just isn't my "vibe" really. Sounds kinda ridiculous, and maybe I'm just vulnerable to popular perception, automaker marketing, etc., but I just couldn't see myself driving a VW hatch.

Tangentially related: I did strongly consider a B8.5 S4 when shopping for a G sedan, and driving the Audi was a blast...but I wasn't ready to accept the maintenance regime and lesser reliability. And the B7 RS4 is one of my favorite cars of all time...

Lego_Maniac

iTrader: (3)

Nice write up, and an interesting comparison to the M3. I really wanted a M3, but I have a Golf R budget, and I wanted a new car for a variety of reasons. You do have to at least like hatchbacks though. I'd nit pick and say that the R doesn't look as good next to a modded G, but it looks way better than the non Sport trims.


You can code the windows down. There is an OBD tool called OBDEleven that opens up 100s of sub menus of settings. Want you seat heaters hotter? You can adjust the temperatures for each of the three settings. It's worth the money just to fully disable the fake engine sound.

So many more options, and some would argue better, options that APR. Cobb now supports VW with the AP, Unitronic and plus the piggy back modules. A JB1 is $200 and adds 45 HP/TQ and puts the DSG cars into the high 11s. That's disgusting. The stick cars aren't as quick though.

Good observation on tire sizes, 245 is doable, but anything beyond that is difficult. As soon as I chew through the OE tires I'm going 245/35/19

The brakes were kind of a hangup for me. The Akebono brakes just looked so good that the sliding calipers on the R were an aesthetic downgrade. But the brakes themselves function great, with fantastic initial bite and absolutely no fade on the streets.

That being said, I'm probably going to go for form over function and upgrade to a BBK. Audi TTS has 4 piston front brakes that are a direct bolt on and even use the same rotor. Save almost 4 pounds a corner too. TTRS 6 piston brakes are a direct bolt on too, but require larger rotors. There are probably a dozen BBKs starting at around $1000 for the OE conversion pieces and going up from there. Lots of options.

Turn off the soundaktor, permanently code open the variable exhaust flaps and replace the resonator with the option Audi straight pipe


Mid 2018 MY VW started shipping Rs with a armrest that opens. Otherwise, it's because the design didn't meet the specifications for cars with a rear driveshaft for how it locked. It can be converted, and you can order the OEM rubber liner to finish off the compartment. It's marginally deeper than the 6MT center console


Nice summary. I think the G37 is still probably a better track car or hobby car because of RWD and the analog driving experience, but the R is a really nice DD, and it's easy to make it fast.

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

Thanks man! I think being an auto journalist would be a pretty cool job. I just try to find the tiny details that you don't think about until you actually own the car and then they drive you nuts every day.

I hear you on the hatch. They are not for everyone and for some strange reason the current body style of the rear hatch on the Golf R just does not look right to me when viewed from the front. Total personal preference, but it is probably due to the fact that the styling is so subtle (still classy & clean) and just not very aggressive. A good aggressively styled hot hatch still appeals to me. I had an STI hatch and loved the aggressive rear styling, but it was still a bit butt scar ugly up front.

After driving that Golf R it really got me thinking about the Audi RS3. I used to really like the RS4 too and it sounded awesome! But you are right about the reliability and it is actually slower and a lot rougher around the edges than a new S4. That RS3 though... That car is impressive, has tons of tuning potential, and supposedly sounds awesome- a big plus for me. Now that my left knee is feeling a bit better I still lean toward a stick shift, while it still exists.

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

Thanks Lego! I figured you would be the first to comment on the Golf R (I was close). So you can code the windows to roll down with the unlock button like our cars? That would be cool. My family had an '85 GTI and a '97 GTI and the '97 allowed you to roll the front windows down and open the moonroof if you put the key in the door and held it to the unlock position. It was so cool at the time- I felt like James Bond. On a number of occasions people in parking lots would freak out about it. To this day when I use the remote to open the windows on the G37 it still freaks people out.

It is crazy just how fast you can make turbo cars now with not a ton of effort, at least compared to having to replace every single part that bolts up to the engines in our cars and then spend months trying to get the tune right. I mean who would waste all that time, right... These cars respond better to a simple cobb accessport tune. Nice to see that there seem to be simple brake upgrade options for the front. Anything for the tiny rear brakes?

I agree that you can make a Golf R sound better, but the design of the 4cyl. just does not allow a very pleasing performance sound like our cars do when the exhaust is opened up. Ironically, one of the best sounding V6 engines ever was the 2nd gen. VW R32. Man that exhaust sounded excellent! Unfortunately, that car was never available with a stick shift.

Rochester

iTrader: (9)

I've followed most of Lego's comments since he switched over to the VW. It seems to me that the Golf R checks all the boxes for an awesome drivers car, and appeals to his automotive values, but it didn't quite feed his soul, if that makes sense. I know that sounds like philosophical BS, but whatever.

Yes, that was a fantastic write-up. Absolutely.

Lego_Maniac

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, you can even code the windows to roll up when locked, or when the windshield wipers turn on (they're automatic).

There is a pretty big group of guys who track GTIs and Rs, and the consensus seems to be the rear brakes are fine. They're already pretty big (especially for the size of the car) and vented. There is a company that makes an adapter that allows the use of the existing caliper with a larger rotor. There are also a couple BBKs, but they ROI is pretty low.

STI and the unequal length header design aside, 4 cylinder turbos aren't the best starting point for sound.

I'd agree with that. It's definitely a better daily driver from a comfort and technology perspective; at stage 1 it's faster than my G; and you can throw it around corners or hit felony speeds ripping up back rods, but it lacks the feedback the G did. It's like driving a video game. Sadly, I spend more time shuffling my kids to and from school and commuting in heavy traffic than I do tearing up back roads these days.

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

That's pretty neat with all the coding things you can do with the Golf R. When looking more seriously at current generation M3's and asking around about replacing the seats I had one shop tell me that they could just code out the side air bags in the front seats so that you would not get an error light with aftermarket seats. That would be nice with our cars since wiring in a resistor only seems to be a temporary fix and I have wired in a lot of them.

Every once and a while I see a caged R32 on track with a full BBK and some knarly turbo setup, but they are pretty rare. Then again, I was at the June Sprints at Road America a few weeks ago and saw a V8 M3 with the cheap OEM sliding brake calipers dice it up with a 911 and just barely take 2nd- very impressive for that track with high top speeds. I think I would still rather have a BBK.

The STIs are probably the best sounding 4cyl. out there, but still not as nice sounding as the rip of a nice high rpm V6. When I had an Evo I never replaced the muffler because every modified exhaust on an Evo sounds awful.

My G37 seems to be pretty good as getting my 8mo. old daughter to daycare/school, but then again it is only about 1/2 mile from our house.

Lego_Maniac

iTrader: (3)

Sadly, that's the sound of inefficiency with the unequal length headers lol. 99% sure the next STI will lose the boxer rumble just like the WRX.

I at least have wifeys Accord to get my high rpm V6 rip. VTEC yo!

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

So I think the Golf R is a very good car, but just not quite the right fit for me. This got me thinking about the Audi S3. I drove one a while ago and was impressed like I was in the Golf R with the power delivery around town, but at the time not the fact that it was not available with a manual transmission.

Thinking of the S3 got me thinking of the RS3. We have had a couple of them here at work, but they were all sold before they arrived so I have not had a chance to drive one. Oddly, I have not even had a chance to hear one and the 5 cylinder is supposed to sound fantastic. The interior of the RS3 is a very nice place to be, especially with the package that adds all of the red stitching and trim. The exterior styling is subtly aggressive, the performance is astounding, the tuning potential is awesome, it has 8 piston front brakes and larger rotors than our cars (but smaller rears), it weighs less than a G37, has a fold down rear seat, and AWD would be really nice.

The only 2 sticking points for me are the lack of a manual and the fact that it seems to understeer badly on track (see lightning lap 2018). I think I keep going back to this car as a much newer and nicer version of a GT-R that will probably cost a lot less than a used GT-R in a few years. I think the fact that I keep comparing it to a GT-R is why I am almost giving the DSG transmission a pass. Well, that and the fact that I have had zero luck finding an ATS-V that I want in the last 2 years!?! There are a good number of RS3's available used now and the car is not even 2 years old yet. The understeer I think could be helped with better tires, brake pads, and a larger rear sway bar.

Maybe I am realizing I don't do as many track days anymore or maybe I am trying to talk myself into this car because it looks like my chances of an ATS-V are slim. Whatever the reason, I am thinking a lot more about an RS3 lately and it is probably due to how much I was surprised by how much I liked the Golf R with the DSG that I drove recently. My my how perceptions change.

Anyway, I think the RS3 looks fantastic in red and black with the package that blacks out all of the trim on the bumpers, mirrors, and windows. The standard silver trim looks decent as well. What do you guys think?



The silver trim does not look bad either, but I think I like the black better and the silver trim looks strange on the rear bumper.




The black looks pretty mean all blacked out, but I think the silver trim looks better on the front/side to break things up a bit. Still looks strange in the back. Maybe you do the silver trim and wrap the silver trim on the rear bumper so it becomes black.

iCrap

iTrader: (8)

I think it looks fantastic and has the performance to back it up as well. I had my eye on an S3, however when I went to look at the S3 I realized its a very very small car and the interior was a bit lacking as well in looks / quality. It's very plasticy for an expensive audi. Dunno if the RS3 is different but I would imagine no.

Rochester

iTrader: (9)

At some point, your 6 year old G (with a 12 year old design) is going to start looking less relevant to you. All those go-fast bolt-ons and track days aside, it's going to happen, if it hasn't already. The technology, both in the cabin and in the drive train, will feel old in comparison to a brand new sport sedan like that Audi. And for compromise, German DCT is pretty slick for a slushbox, can't deny that.

4DRZ, it feels like you keep looking for advice, sometimes overtly, and sometimes implied. And sometimes it feels like you're just wanting someone to talk you down from an impulsive decision. Blah blah blah, it's not fair to psychoanalyze motivations through a car forum, sorry. Particularly since I'm no expert, and you're just some guy sharing bits & pieces.

But I think you should set your sights on that ATS-V. Do it as a solid plan, like 18 months to save up and lay the foundation for the move. When the calendar elapses, start your search and make it happen.

Lego_Maniac

iTrader: (3)

Pretty much this, it's kind of crazy to think both how old this design is, and how far an 'economy' car has advanced in that time.

I agree the RS3 is a hell of a car, but IDK that I'd throw in the towel just yet on finding an ATS-V. Instead, maybe relax the criteria a bit, and I'd also revisit the M3. If in 12-18 months the needle-in-a-haystack ATS-V hasn't showed up......look into a RS3.

There are quite a few RSB options for the Audi/Golf, and they really help dial out under steer. Doug Demuro has a great review of an RS3 that I'd link, but the youtubes is blocked for me.

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

Small cars handle better and are easier to park so I am ok with that. I thought the same thing about the basic/plastic fantastic interior of the S3. The RS3 is definitely nicer than the S3, but not a ton different. However, the materials are definitely a step up from an ATS-V.

Fortunately the G is aging pretty well in the styling dept. I have always thought that cars that have smooth, rounded, flowing designs age better than ones with lots of sharp angles and straight edges. This is why a 1950's Ferrari still looks about a million times better than a brand new Civic Si. (well also #ferrari) I know this is all opinion, but it is part of what keeps me thinking the G is still a really nice car. The other part of that equation is the interior styling. I think it was way ahead of its time and still looks very nice. Yes, newer cars have even better fit, finish, and materials, but the G is still a really nice car to spend time in.

As far as technology goes I really only need a surprisingly small amount of it. I really like the Bose stereo in this car and the bluetooth audio is nice. I hardly ever use the nav, I don't need a moonroof, and a I clearly don't need a power seat since I replaced mine with a Sparco. The handling/steering/shifting/driver feedback in this car is also still exceptionally strong- a lot of that due to upgrades. But you are right about straight line performance. It still feels quick on the street, but the older chassis and especially engine are definitely limited on the track. The car I have now is modified to the point of being really good, really fun to drive, sounds great, and most importantly- still puts a smile on my face. This is ultimately why I still have it. When I upgrade cars it is always because the new car is significantly better in almost every way. I have yet to find that car, but I am getting close.

Well, if this thread is any indication, clearly I do not make impulsive car decisions. I like to get other people's take on things so I can see other perspectives and consider other options I may have missed, but ultimately the decision is mine. So I take my sweet time to make sure I get the right car and take full responsibility if I don't. It took me a while to settle on the G as well, but I am glad I did and taking the time to pick this car is part of the reason why it has become so difficult to replace.

I love cars, driving cars, and talking about cars so this thread is awesome to me and I appreciate all of your input and everyone else who has contributed to this thread. It may seem strange, but this thread is a lot of fun for me. My best friend is a huge car nut too and when we meet up for drinks or dinner it is almost always to spend the entire time talking about cars, usually with a deal of time spent talking about what we will get next. The funny thing is a lot of the time we lead ourselves to a totally different car each time.

So again, thanks Rochester and everyone else for your contributions to this thread. Let's keep 'er movin!