I will agree with hawkeye. Using DS at low speeds and hard braking the car will downshift and revmatch and might make the car jerk forward (like at 15 or 20 mph). This is only for a split second as its trying to rev match 3 to 2 while also rapidly braking.

For aggresive driving the pedals in these cars are pretty close together and with big shoes you can easily hit the gas and brake at the same time...with one foot.

 

no way. not that much. it might feel like it because the car is going from a negative G to a neutral G. what it most likely is is the edge of the foot hitting the gas at the same time you are stepping on the brake. they are close together when it comes to shifting the foot from the gas to the brake.

 

In my case I'm 100% certain it's not my foot coming into contact with the gas when I'm depressing the brake. Why? If it was, I would feel the same jerking reaction regardless of which mode I was driving in (i.e. I only feel the RPM surge in DS) b/c I certainly don't position my feet differently/brake differently based on the mode I'm using.

Also, if it was my size 10.5 feet accidently touching the gas when breaking, I would feel the jerking motion immediately upon braking, not seconds after I start braking. For instance, if I was traveling 50 mph and started braking, the gas/brake theory would say I would immediately feel the jerk/surge. This is not the case...I don't feel the RPM surge until I'm around the 20-25 mph mark (consistently around that mark) while braking in DS mode, making me inclined to think it's the downshift revmatching kicking in.

That being said, the RPM surge I'm feeling is probably different than what the O/P and others in the thread are experiencing...if that's the case, I hope everyone stays safe and that we don't have a TOYOTA problem on our hands.

 

I find it amazing that people feel they know what happened to these guys, when they were not any where near the area when it happened. The poor guy shares a bad experience he had, and then feels like he has to defend him as people start saying it was his fault.

Personally I give him the benefit of the doubt. I've managed to hit both pedals a couple of times in my life, but it was always when wearing big snow boots and I always knew what I had done.

I also hope this does not turn into a bigger wider spread problem.

 

I have less than 2000 miles on my new automatic 09 g37x sedan and I definitely experienced this. I was pulling into my driveway under braking and the car downshifted and revmatched causing the car to lunge forward. The car downshifted and bliped its throttle on it's own like I was heel and toeing a manual, and I think it was the 3>2 shift. I may have been in DS mode, I don't recall.

There was no side of the foot hitting the gas, I was steady braking down from 40mph. Hell, I only have size 8 feet, it's hard to find ski boots for men that small! This was a big quick throttle blip that occured with steady braking pressure and no slip of the foot.

I am 100% behind the OP. I experienced it first hand. There is a situation where the car will lunge on a downshift revmatch. I haven't tried to reproduce it, but it's there.

 

Hi,

i just leased a new 2009 G37X COUPE BLACKon saturday.. i noticed that saturday at one instance i was stopped at a red light with my foot firmly on brake at 0mph and it suddenly revved up to 1500 rpm, all the while, the car was in regular d mode WITHOUT my foot even close to the gas pedal... i threw it into neutral did nothing, i threw it into park, did nothing. i then shut it off.. restarted car it was fine. last night (tuesday) i was going to the store.. i got to store braked to 0 and then put car into Park and it suddenly revved for 2-3 seconds to 4000 rpm then backed off without my foot on accelerator at all and foot firmly on brake. i am very scared for my life now. i took the car in on saturday, dealer said "everything is fine". i called them again today to see what they can do. they said the 2009 cars include the update from the 2008 cars. i called corporate infiniti to see if they can replace the car for me or what options i can take, someone will get back to me tomorrow at the latest. i am scared to drive it. i love the car just wish it wouldnt do this. what do i do? whos had these problems. why is it doing this.

 

Here's the problem. In today's society NO ONE IS EVER AT FAULT.
You rearend someone? it's the brakes, it's the steering, the other car's brake lights were too bright, or too dim. You slipped and fell? it was icy, there was water on the floor. You tripped on a crack in the sidwalk? it was dark, the crack caught my foot, the boogie man tripped me..yadda yadda yadda...

Look at this whole Toyota fiasco...I think they had what like 20 or so confirmed cases? Now EVERYTIME a friggin toyota is in an accident they blame the braking/accelerater issues.

Our cars do an aggressive downshift under hard braking...so reving is totally normal...but I think what people fail to reailze that a 5,000 rpm rev in 1st gear serves to slow the car down, and is very different than the car reving up to 5,000 in 4th gear and trying to accelerate the car.

Either way with hard brakign the car will still stop!!

So yeah yeah I'm talking out of my rear, I know blah blah blah...
so check this out naysayers: How To Deal With Unintended Acceleration - Tech Dept. - Auto Reviews - Car and Driver

You'll see that our near and dear infiniti (G37 tested so not sure about the G35's) as part of the throttle control has software that automatically cuts power when the brakes are applies. So even if you keep your foot completely on the gas, when the brakes are applied the throttle still closes. The infiniti stopped from 100-0 in 320ft with a closed throttle, and 326 feet under FULL throttle.

Even the 540HP roush mustang stopped under full acceleration (although it took almost 1000 feet, the sucker still stopped).

So anytime you hear someone say that their little camry, or prius, or lexus or whatever wouldn't stop after the accelerator stuck and the brakes didn't work...well it just doesn't appear to be truthful does it?

Just my $.02.

 

Actually it does. There have been investigations by the NHTSA regarding this issue. The Toyota execs were ordered to answer to the US government, and Toyota is spending $$$ to rectify these issues. Do you actually think all this would go down if there really wasn't a problem?

 

Yes, they would in the litigious-crazed US of A. Anyone ask all the people who reportedly had "runaway" cars why they didn't just shift into neutral? Drivers who are too stupid to know enough to do that are also too stupid to be trusted with various stories of their car being out of control and them being a "victim."

Growing up many years ago in the Great Lakes region, with old mechanical throttles, you knew that if ice built-up in the car in the winter, the throttle might stick. You learned to pull it up from below with your toe, or to shift to neutral until you could reset it (i.e, kick it or shut the car off until you melted the snow/ice). Of course we were driving rear wheel drive cars with bias ply tires and no electronic nannies whatsoever, so you had to be a bit more self-sufficient.

Anyone wonder how these "runaway" issues are always with automatic transmission cars only, even when there is a manual version with the identical engine and throttle? Or why they occur disproportionately in the US, even when the identical car is available in Europe--or even Canada for that matter? The only differences I am aware of relate to driver licensing standards (much higher in Europe and Japan than USA and Canada); proliferation of automatic transmissions (almost universal in USA and Canada and a minority everywhere else); ability to win a lawsuit for these sorts of claims (decent chance in USA and almost zero everywhere else in the world).

Yes, there is a small issue with some mechanical wear in some Toyota throttles, so they are fixing/replacing them. It is hardly in proportion to the media hysteria and the owners of their competitors GM and Chrysler (US Government) prosecuting them to the max. How about some real consumer protection from lemons and other pervasive quality problems? Ooops, that would favour Toyota and harm the domestic manufacturers, so I am betting we won't see that anytime soon.

 

I have experienced this as well in my 2009 sedan (non-sport). It occurs the exact same way as you explain it, and Mike S. gives a good explanation for why it happens. The car is rev-matching the 3-2 shift.

When the transmission disengages 3 and revs the engine, upon engaging 2 the car "jumps" since the actual speed and the rev-matched speed are different. Essentially, when downshifting, the car rev-matches for 30 mph (for example), but when 2nd is engaged you're actually moving at 25 mph. Thus, the number of revs is too high and the car "jumps".

Should only happen in DS since deceleration in D doesn't cause aggressive downshifting from 3-2, rather the transmission holds 3 until about 15 mph whe it shifts to 2, then shifts to 1 at stop. Moreover, D doesn't rev match on downshifts.

 

Don't forget the Audi "sudden acceleration" issue from the 1980s - 1990s. People were having accidents becuase they claimed that their Audi suddenly accelerated. Audi was quick to point out that their European and American cars used the exact same accelerator assembly (back then it was all mechanical) and yet the complaints only came from the US. It didn't matter, there were 60 Minute news stories and every network had a special about the "Audi death traps". No fault was ever found but it took Audi a while to rebuild their image (that's partly why they renamed all their cars to Ax starting in the 1990s).

 

Of course! Since when has congress or the US government done anything with logic or common sense? Enter: healthcare "reform".

Because as I stated it's always someone else's fault! And congress wants some big business to blame. People have known since when, the late 70's or early 80's that smoking is bad for you, yet the tobacco companies faced congressional hearings and paid BILLIONS of dollars in lawsuit costs and fines and penalties. And yet 100 million americans still smoke? (that was a guess I don't really know how many people still smoke)

It's just the system we live in. Everyone wants to blame someone else.

The whole thing was really spawned by that off-duty highway patrol officer that crashed the borrowed lexus and killed himself and 3 other people. Yes it was tragic, I'm not saying it wasnt. But they had enough time to accelerate to 130mph in a lexus ES AND call 911 for help and couldn't turn the car off, hit the brakes, or switch to neutral? No? Well then BLAME TOYOTA!!

 

Couldn't have said it better myself...if I read another couple posts I guess I would have seen that you had written before I wasted another posting spot.

At any rate, the US system is pretty F'd. It's built on fear and lawsuits and misinformation and ignorance and entitlement.

I believe in the Audi "death trap" issues all the cases were shown to be user error. There's NO benefit for a company, Toyota in this case, trying to do the right thing. Toyota is still going to get their pants sued off by every class action attorney/firm in the country. It'd be no different than if they tried to cover it up. Look at pretty much any other big class action suit, against Ford/firestone, tobacco, asbestos suits, drywall suits, auto recalls.

50,000+ people a year die in this country every year in auto accidents and 99.9% of the time I'd be willing to bet it's human error and nothing more.

 

The best part is that 60 minutes "demonstrated" the surge happening, when in reality, the video was staged.

 

I believe in the case of Toyota's, the car would NOT let them shift into neutral, and the only way to actually get it to stop was to shut the car off.