Accident due to throttle surge while braking
01-29-2010, 01:53 PM
#61
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In Canada and around the GTA (toronto area) repairs on cars are very expensive mostly due to labor. I was rear ended in my 04 Mazda3 a few months back bumper needed to be replaced and a few other minor things bill was $3800 so $5000 for a front bumper and headlight in the Toronto area seems actually cheap to me.
01-29-2010, 10:28 PM
#63
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It is indeed somewhat disappointing that most people thought I somehow put pressure on the gas pedal while I stepped on the brake. I do understand why most people felt that way because I have never thought the car would behave the way it did. Yes, I still believe I did not put any pressure on the gas pedal. Here are the reasons for it:
1. Although I had a winter mat on, it had a cut out for the gas pedal. There is also a Weathertech Digit-fit floor liner to keep things in place. I have checked numerous times after the accident that the mat cannot be a cause. It was double checked by an independent mechanic and by the dealer and I was told it would not be the reason.
2. As posted before, my shoe size is 8.5 and I could not press on both pedals unless I try very hard. I almost need to put my foot horizontal. Besides, the brake pedal would need to be pressed quite a bit before it levels with the gas pedal.
3. Although suggested by the Car and Driver article and other posters, my throttle was not cut off when I experimented stepping on both gas & brake pedals at the same time.
4. If I indeed pressed on the gas while I jumped on the brake, why did the RPM not jumped accordingly? My statement has always been that the RPM surged to about 2000 and stayed there from the time I realized the car was not slowing till AFTER I shifted to P. The car continued to move forward at a steady speed even after impact. Also, while I experimented stepping on the gas and brake pedals at the same time, I found the brakes easily overcome the throttle. And remember, I was moving at about 15km/h. Brake systems of any late model cars would be able to stop in no time, even if the gas pedal was pressed at the same time.
5. The above point was confirmed, in my opionion, by the fact that the support bracket for the radiator was damaged. I was told it was not made of metal like most other cars but instead of some light weight plastic. I forgot the cost of the part, but I was told by the shop it would take 10 hours labour to replace that part. So the damage went up by at least $1000.
6. The RPM surged again while I was stopped at the Costco parking lot. My foot did not even move.
As far as dealing with Infiniti Canada, all they would say was that they could not find anything that caused or contributed to the accident. I don't know what kind of investigation they did. I dropped the car off at 3pm Monday. They told me to pick up the car back the next morning at 8:30. They did not ask me a single question. They refused to answer questions that I had or offer any explanation of the cause and said there would be no compensation. My lawyer send them a letter and they called me to say they would not communicate with any lawyers!!
1. Although I had a winter mat on, it had a cut out for the gas pedal. There is also a Weathertech Digit-fit floor liner to keep things in place. I have checked numerous times after the accident that the mat cannot be a cause. It was double checked by an independent mechanic and by the dealer and I was told it would not be the reason.
2. As posted before, my shoe size is 8.5 and I could not press on both pedals unless I try very hard. I almost need to put my foot horizontal. Besides, the brake pedal would need to be pressed quite a bit before it levels with the gas pedal.
3. Although suggested by the Car and Driver article and other posters, my throttle was not cut off when I experimented stepping on both gas & brake pedals at the same time.
4. If I indeed pressed on the gas while I jumped on the brake, why did the RPM not jumped accordingly? My statement has always been that the RPM surged to about 2000 and stayed there from the time I realized the car was not slowing till AFTER I shifted to P. The car continued to move forward at a steady speed even after impact. Also, while I experimented stepping on the gas and brake pedals at the same time, I found the brakes easily overcome the throttle. And remember, I was moving at about 15km/h. Brake systems of any late model cars would be able to stop in no time, even if the gas pedal was pressed at the same time.
5. The above point was confirmed, in my opionion, by the fact that the support bracket for the radiator was damaged. I was told it was not made of metal like most other cars but instead of some light weight plastic. I forgot the cost of the part, but I was told by the shop it would take 10 hours labour to replace that part. So the damage went up by at least $1000.
6. The RPM surged again while I was stopped at the Costco parking lot. My foot did not even move.
As far as dealing with Infiniti Canada, all they would say was that they could not find anything that caused or contributed to the accident. I don't know what kind of investigation they did. I dropped the car off at 3pm Monday. They told me to pick up the car back the next morning at 8:30. They did not ask me a single question. They refused to answer questions that I had or offer any explanation of the cause and said there would be no compensation. My lawyer send them a letter and they called me to say they would not communicate with any lawyers!!
01-30-2010, 01:15 AM
#64
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KCM...I believe you. It has happened to me twice, both times I was fooking around with the stereo while on the interstate and looked up in time to see a line of stopped traffic. I jammed on the brakes (which worked very well) and the tranny downshifted abruptly (car felt like it was about to stand on its nose) and the engine revved like mad for a couple of seconds. It was like the car had downshifted to 1st gear (extreme engine braking) while at a moderate speed and was thus pulling forward with a lot of torque as the engine revved. Fortunately I was already in process of pushing the brake pedal through the floor and so I held it and crisis was averted.
Was this similar to your issue?
Was this similar to your issue?
01-30-2010, 10:16 PM
#65
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Thread Starter
[quote=G35Rhino;2853199]KCM...I believe you.
quote]
Thanks, G35Rhino and others who believe what I experienced. But again, I perfectly understand why other who don't.
Your experience describes mine closely. Because I was already travelling at such a slow speed, I did not feel the downshift. Based on my past experience, I am pretty sure I am either in first or second gear and the car held the gear and throttle for, what I felt like, an eternity.
I hope at least my post would let other G owners aware of this potential issue with the car. I now always have my hand on the shifter when I come to a stop. Someday, maybe Infiniti would acknowlege the problem.
quote]
Thanks, G35Rhino and others who believe what I experienced. But again, I perfectly understand why other who don't.
Your experience describes mine closely. Because I was already travelling at such a slow speed, I did not feel the downshift. Based on my past experience, I am pretty sure I am either in first or second gear and the car held the gear and throttle for, what I felt like, an eternity.
I hope at least my post would let other G owners aware of this potential issue with the car. I now always have my hand on the shifter when I come to a stop. Someday, maybe Infiniti would acknowlege the problem.
01-30-2010, 10:35 PM
#66
KCM,
It's not that I don't believe what you reported. Your problem now is that you have screwed yourself by the decisions you made after your incident. You should have reported it to the police immediately. Documentation that it happened and your report of the malfunction on an official police report. You should have reported it to your insurance company and had them pay a claim. It puts the onus on them to help you in order to recover the money they lose by paying for the incident. They have more/better lawyers and more money than you do. And again, documentation of the issue. Mistake number three is letting Infiniti take you car and examine it first before you or your insurance company hired an independent third party source to inspect it first. Of the mistakes you made, this is the worst one. I'm not saying Infiniti is going to lie or cover up a defect, but if they want to you will have no documentation that it actually happened or hard evidence from the ECU that you could use to prove your claims. You didn't know any of this stuff, most people don't. But I used to deal with this type of stuff for years as a part of my job. My advice is to not even attempt to get any admission of fault or compensation form Infiniti because it ain't gonna happen at this point, no way no how. I won't charge you for this consultation because you've been through enough.
I appreciate you posting this so that others are aware, but yours is a cautionary tale in exactly how not to handle the situation if it arises for anyone else. I'm not bashing you because you didn't know any better obviously, but so that others don't repeat your mistakes. Best of luck.
It's not that I don't believe what you reported. Your problem now is that you have screwed yourself by the decisions you made after your incident. You should have reported it to the police immediately. Documentation that it happened and your report of the malfunction on an official police report. You should have reported it to your insurance company and had them pay a claim. It puts the onus on them to help you in order to recover the money they lose by paying for the incident. They have more/better lawyers and more money than you do. And again, documentation of the issue. Mistake number three is letting Infiniti take you car and examine it first before you or your insurance company hired an independent third party source to inspect it first. Of the mistakes you made, this is the worst one. I'm not saying Infiniti is going to lie or cover up a defect, but if they want to you will have no documentation that it actually happened or hard evidence from the ECU that you could use to prove your claims. You didn't know any of this stuff, most people don't. But I used to deal with this type of stuff for years as a part of my job. My advice is to not even attempt to get any admission of fault or compensation form Infiniti because it ain't gonna happen at this point, no way no how. I won't charge you for this consultation because you've been through enough.
I appreciate you posting this so that others are aware, but yours is a cautionary tale in exactly how not to handle the situation if it arises for anyone else. I'm not bashing you because you didn't know any better obviously, but so that others don't repeat your mistakes. Best of luck.
01-30-2010, 11:05 PM
#67
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Thread Starter
Black betty, I appreicate your straight forward advice. In retrospect, I should not have listened to the broker. The damage seemed superficial at first, but as I mentioned before, more damage was behind the bumper as a result of the forward push even after the impact. I guess I was also afraid that I would get charged for rear-ending somebody. Someone at the body shop did say Infiniti could have reflashed ECU while they had my car. Your advice is well taken.
01-30-2010, 11:21 PM
#68
Some basics of traffic crashes that everyone can learn from:
1) there's always more damage than you think
2) not reporting it to save your insurance rates is very often a bad idea.
3) always, ALWAYS call the cops, even if you are at fault and the incident is minor.
1) there's always more damage than you think
2) not reporting it to save your insurance rates is very often a bad idea.
3) always, ALWAYS call the cops, even if you are at fault and the incident is minor.
02-03-2010, 09:49 AM
#69
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Same Thing - No Accident
I was driving my g37x and applied the brakes suddenly for a red light. I was the first car to the red light. I got it stopped but the rpms stayes between 2500 and 3000 and the car pulled like a horse in the starting gate. Took both feet on the brake to hold the car in place; shifting to neutral or park did nothing to the rpms - the car continued to race. Infiniti is coming out to do an inspection at my dealer. I think there is a serious problem here; never had anything like this in over 40 years of driving - it's real and it's scary. I won't let my wife drive this car for fear she'll panic if this happens to her.
02-03-2010, 11:57 AM
#71
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Thread Starter
In some way, I am happy someone experienced the same as I did. On the other hand I hope Infiniti would look at this before someone get hurt. How do we get Infiniti look at this seriously? Is your 09 Sedan?
02-04-2010, 12:03 AM
#75
Registered User
Thread Starter
I think you are talking about these two reports:
1.
Make: INFINITI
Model: G37 SEDAN
Year: 2009
Complaint Number: 10296445
Summary:
I PURCHASED A NEW G37X INFINITI ON MARCH 31, 2009. ON APRIL 14, I WAS DRIVING IN A LINE OF TRAFFIC AND HAD TO STOP FOR A RED LIGHT. I APPLIED MY BRAKE AND INSTEAD OF STOPPING THE CAR KEPT ON ACCELERATING (LUNGING) FORWARD AND FINALLY HIT THE CAR IN FRONT OF ME. I WAS GOING SLOWLY AND THERE WAS NO DAMAGE. THE DRIVER OF THE HIT VEHICLE GOT OUT TO INSPECT THE DAMAGE AND WHILE HE WAS LOOKING, THE CAR LUNGED FORWARD AGAIN, ALMOST HITTING HIM. I THOUGHT PERHAPS IT WAS MY FAULT BECAUSE IT WAS RAINING OUT AND THE CAR HAS ABS BRAKES WHICH MY PREVIOUS 12 YEAR OLD CAR DID NOT HAVE SO I THOUGHT I DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO DRIVE IN THE RAIN. I IMMEDIATELY DROVE STRAIGHT TO THE INFINITI DEALER AND THEY CHECKED IT OUT AND COULD FIND NOTHING WRONG. ON SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 7, 2009, I WAS COMING TO A STOP SIGN AND APPLIED MY BRAKES AND AGAIN THE CAR WOULDN'T STOP. IT KEPT LUNGING FORWARD AND WENT THROUGH THE INTERSECTION. FORTUNATELY, NO ONE WAS CROSSING THE STREET AND THERE WERE NO CARS IN FRONT OF ME. I WAS REALLY SHAKEN UP. ON MONDAY, NOVEMBER 9, I BROUGHT IT BACK TO THE INFINITI DEALER AND THEY SAID THERE WAS A HARSH 4>3 DOWNSHIFT CAUSING VEHICLE TO LUNGE. APPARENTLY, A TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN HAD BEEN ISSUED BETWEEN MY TWO EVENTS AND THEY DID THE FIX. (TSB ITB09-032B). I WENT ON-LINE AND DISCOVERED THAT THIS TSB DOES NOT ADDRESS THE PROBLEM I DESCRIBED. I THEN CALLED THE REGIONAL INFINITI DEALER AND THEY OPENED A FILE ON THE CASE AND SAID I SHOULDN'T DRIVE THE CAR. I BROUGHT IT BACK TO THE DEALER AND THEY GAVE ME A LOANER BUT ASKED FOR IT BACK SOON AFTER BECAUSE THEY HAD NO DATE AS TO WHEN THE REGIONAL INFINITI PEOPLE COULD LOOK AT . FINALLY, ON NOVEMBER 30TH, MIKE WEATHERHILL FROM INFINITI LOOKED AT THE CAR. I HAD HEARD NOTHING SO I CALLED THE REGIONAL OFFICE TWICE AND FINALLY THEY TOLD ME THAT THE CASE WAS IN ARBITRATION. I ASKED FOR THAT PHONE NUMBER WHICH THEY REFUSED TO GIVE ME. I AM AT MY WIT'S END TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON AND AM AFRAID THAT I AM DRIVING A TIME BOMB. *TR
2.
Make: INFINITI
Model: G37 SEDAN
Year: 2009
Complaint Number: 10298957
Summary:
DRIVING MY NEW 2009 G37X INFINITI AND MADE A FAIRLY HARD BRAKE FOR A RED LIGHT - CAR SLID A LITTLE TO A STOP, BUT CONTINUED ACCELERATING AT 2500 TO 3000 RPMS WHILE I HELD BOTH FEET ON THE BRAKE TO KEEP IT IN PLACE. IT WAS LIKE HOLDING BACK A REVVED UP JET - RPMS WOULD NOT COME DOWN EVEN WHEN I SHIFTED CAR TO NEUTRAL. NEVER EXPERIENCED ANYTHING LIKE THIS IS 40 YEARS OF DRIVING. NOTICED ODI COMPLAINT # 10296445 WHICH IS THE EXACT DESCRIPTION OF WHAT HAPPENED TO ME (WITHOUT COLLISION) WITH THE SAME VEHICLE - 2009 INFINITI G37X SEDAN. THIS PROBLEM IS GOING TO CAUSE SOMEONE TO GET INJURED OR KILLED! HAVE AN APPOINTMENT WITH DEALER ON WEDNESDAY MORNING. *TR
These two reports are so amazingly similar to my experience. Do we have enough evidence for a lawsuit?
1.
Make: INFINITI
Model: G37 SEDAN
Year: 2009
Complaint Number: 10296445
Summary:
I PURCHASED A NEW G37X INFINITI ON MARCH 31, 2009. ON APRIL 14, I WAS DRIVING IN A LINE OF TRAFFIC AND HAD TO STOP FOR A RED LIGHT. I APPLIED MY BRAKE AND INSTEAD OF STOPPING THE CAR KEPT ON ACCELERATING (LUNGING) FORWARD AND FINALLY HIT THE CAR IN FRONT OF ME. I WAS GOING SLOWLY AND THERE WAS NO DAMAGE. THE DRIVER OF THE HIT VEHICLE GOT OUT TO INSPECT THE DAMAGE AND WHILE HE WAS LOOKING, THE CAR LUNGED FORWARD AGAIN, ALMOST HITTING HIM. I THOUGHT PERHAPS IT WAS MY FAULT BECAUSE IT WAS RAINING OUT AND THE CAR HAS ABS BRAKES WHICH MY PREVIOUS 12 YEAR OLD CAR DID NOT HAVE SO I THOUGHT I DIDN'T KNOW HOW TO DRIVE IN THE RAIN. I IMMEDIATELY DROVE STRAIGHT TO THE INFINITI DEALER AND THEY CHECKED IT OUT AND COULD FIND NOTHING WRONG. ON SATURDAY, NOVEMBER 7, 2009, I WAS COMING TO A STOP SIGN AND APPLIED MY BRAKES AND AGAIN THE CAR WOULDN'T STOP. IT KEPT LUNGING FORWARD AND WENT THROUGH THE INTERSECTION. FORTUNATELY, NO ONE WAS CROSSING THE STREET AND THERE WERE NO CARS IN FRONT OF ME. I WAS REALLY SHAKEN UP. ON MONDAY, NOVEMBER 9, I BROUGHT IT BACK TO THE INFINITI DEALER AND THEY SAID THERE WAS A HARSH 4>3 DOWNSHIFT CAUSING VEHICLE TO LUNGE. APPARENTLY, A TECHNICAL SERVICE BULLETIN HAD BEEN ISSUED BETWEEN MY TWO EVENTS AND THEY DID THE FIX. (TSB ITB09-032B). I WENT ON-LINE AND DISCOVERED THAT THIS TSB DOES NOT ADDRESS THE PROBLEM I DESCRIBED. I THEN CALLED THE REGIONAL INFINITI DEALER AND THEY OPENED A FILE ON THE CASE AND SAID I SHOULDN'T DRIVE THE CAR. I BROUGHT IT BACK TO THE DEALER AND THEY GAVE ME A LOANER BUT ASKED FOR IT BACK SOON AFTER BECAUSE THEY HAD NO DATE AS TO WHEN THE REGIONAL INFINITI PEOPLE COULD LOOK AT . FINALLY, ON NOVEMBER 30TH, MIKE WEATHERHILL FROM INFINITI LOOKED AT THE CAR. I HAD HEARD NOTHING SO I CALLED THE REGIONAL OFFICE TWICE AND FINALLY THEY TOLD ME THAT THE CASE WAS IN ARBITRATION. I ASKED FOR THAT PHONE NUMBER WHICH THEY REFUSED TO GIVE ME. I AM AT MY WIT'S END TRYING TO FIND OUT WHAT IS GOING ON AND AM AFRAID THAT I AM DRIVING A TIME BOMB. *TR
2.
Make: INFINITI
Model: G37 SEDAN
Year: 2009
Complaint Number: 10298957
Summary:
DRIVING MY NEW 2009 G37X INFINITI AND MADE A FAIRLY HARD BRAKE FOR A RED LIGHT - CAR SLID A LITTLE TO A STOP, BUT CONTINUED ACCELERATING AT 2500 TO 3000 RPMS WHILE I HELD BOTH FEET ON THE BRAKE TO KEEP IT IN PLACE. IT WAS LIKE HOLDING BACK A REVVED UP JET - RPMS WOULD NOT COME DOWN EVEN WHEN I SHIFTED CAR TO NEUTRAL. NEVER EXPERIENCED ANYTHING LIKE THIS IS 40 YEARS OF DRIVING. NOTICED ODI COMPLAINT # 10296445 WHICH IS THE EXACT DESCRIPTION OF WHAT HAPPENED TO ME (WITHOUT COLLISION) WITH THE SAME VEHICLE - 2009 INFINITI G37X SEDAN. THIS PROBLEM IS GOING TO CAUSE SOMEONE TO GET INJURED OR KILLED! HAVE AN APPOINTMENT WITH DEALER ON WEDNESDAY MORNING. *TR
These two reports are so amazingly similar to my experience. Do we have enough evidence for a lawsuit?