how do you guys brake?
01-13-2008, 07:38 PM
#61
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Just making a point.
You meant going downhill-----didn't you??
If you're going to drive a manual transmission vehicle, learn how to drive it the way it's meant to be driven.
It is not an automatic and if someone's too lazy to go through all the motions involved with the mechanics of driving one, then they really should stick with an automatic.
I'll ask again:
Do you put an automatic in neutral every time you come to a stop??
My mother never drove an automatic in her life and used to downshift in a normal fashion when coming to a stop. Right up till she quit driving.
NEVER wore out a clutch in her 72+ yrs of driving-
You meant going downhill-----didn't you??
If you're going to drive a manual transmission vehicle, learn how to drive it the way it's meant to be driven.
It is not an automatic and if someone's too lazy to go through all the motions involved with the mechanics of driving one, then they really should stick with an automatic.
I'll ask again:
Do you put an automatic in neutral every time you come to a stop??
My mother never drove an automatic in her life and used to downshift in a normal fashion when coming to a stop. Right up till she quit driving.
NEVER wore out a clutch in her 72+ yrs of driving-
01-13-2008, 08:19 PM
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01-13-2008, 09:30 PM
#63
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I'm sorry, but this just isn't that technical.
Knowing how to heel-toe your rev matching is lightyears more technical than just plain, normal downshifting. I've never heel toed any car I've had and don't know how to do it. I don't race enough that it matters.
I would guess that in 95% or better of anybody's daily driving experience upon approaching a stop sign, they're going to be already slowing enough(anticipating what's next and not still going like a bat of of hell) that they can leave it in the gear they're in till they get down into a range of rpms that needs no rev matching at all in order to slide down into the next lower gear or maybe even two gears lower---whatever.
This just isn't that complicated-
Knowing how to heel-toe your rev matching is lightyears more technical than just plain, normal downshifting. I've never heel toed any car I've had and don't know how to do it. I don't race enough that it matters.
I would guess that in 95% or better of anybody's daily driving experience upon approaching a stop sign, they're going to be already slowing enough(anticipating what's next and not still going like a bat of of hell) that they can leave it in the gear they're in till they get down into a range of rpms that needs no rev matching at all in order to slide down into the next lower gear or maybe even two gears lower---whatever.
This just isn't that complicated-
PS - there's no way you can go two gears down in the G37 without revving and not have a very long clutch feather (bad) or a nice jerk (bad).
01-14-2008, 11:53 AM
#64
So I tried heel-toeing for the first time yesterday. It's hard when you have a big foot. 
I'm not sure if this would work, but has anyone tried "heel-toeing" without positioning your foot sideways? In a way, it seems like you could do it by just putting your foot vertically between the brake and accelerator and tilting it to the side. Does that make sense? It almost seems easier to do it that way.
I'm not sure if this would work, but has anyone tried "heel-toeing" without positioning your foot sideways? In a way, it seems like you could do it by just putting your foot vertically between the brake and accelerator and tilting it to the side. Does that make sense? It almost seems easier to do it that way.
01-14-2008, 03:33 PM
#65
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WTF are you talking about? Engine braking involves the clutch. The reason why the car slows down in your method is because the clutch is grabbing and slowing down the car... How can the "engine" slow down the car otherwise? Please explain?
"If you are in a high gear for your speed, the deceleration might not satisfy you. In this case, you want to downshift to a lower gear and then do the same."
That right there is using the clutch to save your brakes.... Which according to Edmunds and everyone else, is bad for the clutch.
"If you are in a high gear for your speed, the deceleration might not satisfy you. In this case, you want to downshift to a lower gear and then do the same."
That right there is using the clutch to save your brakes.... Which according to Edmunds and everyone else, is bad for the clutch.
?! What?
Engine braking means that the engine is slowing the car down. You don't need the clutch for that. All you need to do is be in gear and let your foot off the accelerator. The car slows down via engine braking.
If you are in a high gear for your speed, the deceleration might not satisfy you. In this case, you want to downshift to a lower gear and then do the same.
Engine braking is NOT taking your stick out of 6th, putting it in 4th, and then slowly lifting the clutch to raise the RPMs. That's harmful to your drive train and if you screw it up and let the clutch out too quickly (say, your foot slips off the pedal) you could actually crash from the sudden negative torque applied to the rear tires (equivalent handbrake pull).
If you are "engine braking" by burning up your clutch on a non-revmatched downshift, please stop.
Engine braking means that the engine is slowing the car down. You don't need the clutch for that. All you need to do is be in gear and let your foot off the accelerator. The car slows down via engine braking.
If you are in a high gear for your speed, the deceleration might not satisfy you. In this case, you want to downshift to a lower gear and then do the same.
Engine braking is NOT taking your stick out of 6th, putting it in 4th, and then slowly lifting the clutch to raise the RPMs. That's harmful to your drive train and if you screw it up and let the clutch out too quickly (say, your foot slips off the pedal) you could actually crash from the sudden negative torque applied to the rear tires (equivalent handbrake pull).
If you are "engine braking" by burning up your clutch on a non-revmatched downshift, please stop.
01-14-2008, 03:47 PM
#66
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So I tried heel-toeing for the first time yesterday. It's hard when you have a big foot.
I'm not sure if this would work, but has anyone tried "heel-toeing" without positioning your foot sideways? In a way, it seems like you could do it by just putting your foot vertically between the brake and accelerator and tilting it to the side. Does that make sense? It almost seems easier to do it that way.
I'm not sure if this would work, but has anyone tried "heel-toeing" without positioning your foot sideways? In a way, it seems like you could do it by just putting your foot vertically between the brake and accelerator and tilting it to the side. Does that make sense? It almost seems easier to do it that way.
You just need to make sure you don't stand on both pedals at the same time....
01-14-2008, 04:26 PM
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WTF are you talking about? Engine braking involves the clutch. The reason why the car slows down in your method is because the clutch is grabbing and slowing down the car... How can the "engine" slow down the car otherwise? Please explain?
"If you are in a high gear for your speed, the deceleration might not satisfy you. In this case, you want to downshift to a lower gear and then do the same."
That right there is using the clutch to save your brakes.... Which according to Edmunds and everyone else, is bad for the clutch.
"If you are in a high gear for your speed, the deceleration might not satisfy you. In this case, you want to downshift to a lower gear and then do the same."
That right there is using the clutch to save your brakes.... Which according to Edmunds and everyone else, is bad for the clutch.
Engine braking means the friction of the engine being forced to turn by car slows the car down -- "Engine braking is the act of using the energy-requiring compression stroke of the internal combustion engine to dissipate energy and slow down a vehicle." (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Engine_braking)
It has nothing to do with a clutch. What you are describing is very bad for your clutch and your drivetrain as a whole. You should never downshift by using your clutch to match your revs.
Do you drive a 6mt? I'm just asking because you seem to not know anything about how it behaves. Do me (and yourself) a favor and next time you are driving your 6mt, go to 35mph in 2nd gear, and then let off the gas completely. Watch your speedo (and the road)... does it go down? Roughly how long does it take to drop 10mph? Now... go back up to 35mph in 2nd gear. This time, drop it into neutral, then let off the gas completely. Can you see a difference? That difference is engine braking. What you are describing as engine braking is just poor MT driving.
Last edited by mal_TX; 01-14-2008 at 04:36 PM.
01-14-2008, 04:31 PM
#68
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Other quality quotes from the wiki article:
"Engine braking is always active in all non-hybrid vehicles with an internal combustion engine, regardless of transmission type. Engine braking passively reduces wear on brakes and helps a driver maintain control of the vehicle. It is always active when the foot is lifted off the accelerator, the transmission is not in neutral, the clutch is engaged and a freewheel is not engaged. This is often called engine drag."
"Active use of engine braking (shifting into a lower gear) is only advantageous when it is necessary to control speed while driving down very steep and long slopes. It should be applied before regular disk or drum brakes have been used, leaving the brakes available to make emergency stops. The desired speed is maintained by using engine braking to counteract the acceleration due to gravity.
Improper engine braking technique can cause the wheels to skid, especially on slippery surfaces such as ice or snow, as a result of too much deceleration. As in a skid caused by over-braking, the vehicle will not regain traction until the wheels are allowed to turn more quickly; the driver must reduce engine braking (shifting back up) to regain traction."
I will also point out that in modern vehicles (including ours), the engine receives no fuel at all if the driver is off the gas pedal and the rpms are above 2,000. This is a zero-fuel consumption condition. Coasting down a hill in gear will not only save your brakes but save a little gas too
If you were to shift to N, the engine would require fuel to idle else it will stop running.
"Engine braking is always active in all non-hybrid vehicles with an internal combustion engine, regardless of transmission type. Engine braking passively reduces wear on brakes and helps a driver maintain control of the vehicle. It is always active when the foot is lifted off the accelerator, the transmission is not in neutral, the clutch is engaged and a freewheel is not engaged. This is often called engine drag."
"Active use of engine braking (shifting into a lower gear) is only advantageous when it is necessary to control speed while driving down very steep and long slopes. It should be applied before regular disk or drum brakes have been used, leaving the brakes available to make emergency stops. The desired speed is maintained by using engine braking to counteract the acceleration due to gravity.
Improper engine braking technique can cause the wheels to skid, especially on slippery surfaces such as ice or snow, as a result of too much deceleration. As in a skid caused by over-braking, the vehicle will not regain traction until the wheels are allowed to turn more quickly; the driver must reduce engine braking (shifting back up) to regain traction."
I will also point out that in modern vehicles (including ours), the engine receives no fuel at all if the driver is off the gas pedal and the rpms are above 2,000. This is a zero-fuel consumption condition. Coasting down a hill in gear will not only save your brakes but save a little gas too
If you were to shift to N, the engine would require fuel to idle else it will stop running.
01-14-2008, 05:22 PM
#69
Registered Member
Ok, I don't have a G, and won't for another year, and I've been driving an AT for the past 13 years. However, before that I drove only MT sport cars for 28 years (MG-TD, Fiat 124 Sport, Mazda RX-7). While I never learned Heel-Toe driving, I always downshifted as I slowed the car. One of the hardest things to learn with an AT floor shifter was to not slam the damn thing into reverse as I came to a stop. This is the first I've ever heard of shifting to neutral and putting the entire burden on the brakes. It's the nuttiest thing I've seen on the internet in quite a while. Where did these people learn to drive? Who gave them these crazy ideas? And what is so hard about downshifting?????
01-14-2008, 06:57 PM
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As I said, earlier:
I thought coasting was illegal or at least it used to be.
I would venture a guess that it's illegal in every state. I quickly picked four to look up.
http://law.onecle.com/michigan/257-m...l-257-678.html
http://www.dds.ga.gov/docs/forms/FullDriversManual.pdf
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21710.htm
http://www.orland-park.il.us/village...le9Chapt14.pdf
I can only speculate that we have a bunch of people driving manual transmissions that just flat out don't have a clue how to drive one. This includes the obviously challenged "Writers of the Myths."
I'll ask again.
Do you put your automatic transmission in neutral every time you come to a stop??
If not, why not?
I thought coasting was illegal or at least it used to be.
I would venture a guess that it's illegal in every state. I quickly picked four to look up.
http://law.onecle.com/michigan/257-m...l-257-678.html
http://www.dds.ga.gov/docs/forms/FullDriversManual.pdf
http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21710.htm
http://www.orland-park.il.us/village...le9Chapt14.pdf
I can only speculate that we have a bunch of people driving manual transmissions that just flat out don't have a clue how to drive one. This includes the obviously challenged "Writers of the Myths."
I'll ask again.
Do you put your automatic transmission in neutral every time you come to a stop??
If not, why not?
01-14-2008, 07:11 PM
#71
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hahaha you're joking right? No matter what you do, if the car is on, it's consuming fuel.. No such thing is ZERO-FUEL CONSUMPTION condition when the car is ON.. hahaha.
Notice how the state that "the clutch is engaged".... So you don't wear down the brake pads, instead you wear down the clutch.. SMART..
WIKI FTL..
EDMUNDS FTW...
Notice how the state that "the clutch is engaged".... So you don't wear down the brake pads, instead you wear down the clutch.. SMART..
WIKI FTL..
EDMUNDS FTW...
Other quality quotes from the wiki article:
"Engine braking is always active in all non-hybrid vehicles with an internal combustion engine, regardless of transmission type. Engine braking passively reduces wear on brakes and helps a driver maintain control of the vehicle. It is always active when the foot is lifted off the accelerator, the transmission is not in neutral, the clutch is engaged and a freewheel is not engaged. This is often called engine drag."
"Active use of engine braking (shifting into a lower gear) is only advantageous when it is necessary to control speed while driving down very steep and long slopes. It should be applied before regular disk or drum brakes have been used, leaving the brakes available to make emergency stops. The desired speed is maintained by using engine braking to counteract the acceleration due to gravity.
Improper engine braking technique can cause the wheels to skid, especially on slippery surfaces such as ice or snow, as a result of too much deceleration. As in a skid caused by over-braking, the vehicle will not regain traction until the wheels are allowed to turn more quickly; the driver must reduce engine braking (shifting back up) to regain traction."
I will also point out that in modern vehicles (including ours), the engine receives no fuel at all if the driver is off the gas pedal and the rpms are above 2,000. This is a zero-fuel consumption condition. Coasting down a hill in gear will not only save your brakes but save a little gas too If you were to shift to N, the engine would require fuel to idle else it will stop running.
"Engine braking is always active in all non-hybrid vehicles with an internal combustion engine, regardless of transmission type. Engine braking passively reduces wear on brakes and helps a driver maintain control of the vehicle. It is always active when the foot is lifted off the accelerator, the transmission is not in neutral, the clutch is engaged and a freewheel is not engaged. This is often called engine drag."
"Active use of engine braking (shifting into a lower gear) is only advantageous when it is necessary to control speed while driving down very steep and long slopes. It should be applied before regular disk or drum brakes have been used, leaving the brakes available to make emergency stops. The desired speed is maintained by using engine braking to counteract the acceleration due to gravity.
Improper engine braking technique can cause the wheels to skid, especially on slippery surfaces such as ice or snow, as a result of too much deceleration. As in a skid caused by over-braking, the vehicle will not regain traction until the wheels are allowed to turn more quickly; the driver must reduce engine braking (shifting back up) to regain traction."
I will also point out that in modern vehicles (including ours), the engine receives no fuel at all if the driver is off the gas pedal and the rpms are above 2,000. This is a zero-fuel consumption condition. Coasting down a hill in gear will not only save your brakes but save a little gas too
If you were to shift to N, the engine would require fuel to idle else it will stop running.
01-14-2008, 09:29 PM
#72
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wrong on all counts as usual
Ok Gday I think I should just write you off because you are spouting opinion as fact with no knowledge of the truth. Everyone knows this is how fuel injection engines work, except apparently you.
Off throttle, the drivetrain is turning the engine, which turns all the belts and keeps your car fully functioning. There is no reason for the ECU to feed fuel into the engine if it would not otherwise stall. Hence, the 2000 rpm condition. Someone quoted the service manual with this fact, unfortunately I don't have the exact page to give you, so you'll have to take my word for it (haha yea right).
Clutch engaged means your foot is off of the pedal, Einstein. When you press the pedal you DISENGAGE the clutch, which disconnects your drivetrain from your flywheel.
Seriously... you are probably just trolling or something because there's no way you know this little about how cars work. Otherwise, ditch the attitude, please.
Off throttle, the drivetrain is turning the engine, which turns all the belts and keeps your car fully functioning. There is no reason for the ECU to feed fuel into the engine if it would not otherwise stall. Hence, the 2000 rpm condition. Someone quoted the service manual with this fact, unfortunately I don't have the exact page to give you, so you'll have to take my word for it (haha yea right).
Clutch engaged means your foot is off of the pedal, Einstein. When you press the pedal you DISENGAGE the clutch, which disconnects your drivetrain from your flywheel.
Seriously... you are probably just trolling or something because there's no way you know this little about how cars work. Otherwise, ditch the attitude, please.
hahaha you're joking right? No matter what you do, if the car is on, it's consuming fuel.. No such thing is ZERO-FUEL CONSUMPTION condition when the car is ON.. hahaha.
Notice how the state that "the clutch is engaged".... So you don't wear down the brake pads, instead you wear down the clutch.. SMART..
WIKI FTL..
EDMUNDS FTW...
Notice how the state that "the clutch is engaged".... So you don't wear down the brake pads, instead you wear down the clutch.. SMART..
WIKI FTL..
EDMUNDS FTW...
01-14-2008, 10:54 PM
#73
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NO shlt sherlock.. Foot of the clutch mean the clutch is engaged... Try slowing down your car with the clutch pedeal being pushed in... YOU CANT.. Cause the CLUTCH is what helps slow down the car when you downshift.. DURR>>>
All your comments in BOLD is just pure nonsense... No matter what, fuel is being fed into the engine when the car is on.... Belts are turning the engine? hahahahah... Off the throttle the engine is still running,,, picture your car in neutral.....
All your comments in BOLD is just pure nonsense... No matter what, fuel is being fed into the engine when the car is on.... Belts are turning the engine? hahahahah... Off the throttle the engine is still running,,, picture your car in neutral.....
Ok Gday I think I should just write you off because you are spouting opinion as fact with no knowledge of the truth. Everyone knows this is how fuel injection engines work, except apparently you.
Off throttle, the drivetrain is turning the engine, which turns all the belts and keeps your car fully functioning. There is no reason for the ECU to feed fuel into the engine if it would not otherwise stall. Hence, the 2000 rpm condition. Someone quoted the service manual with this fact, unfortunately I don't have the exact page to give you, so you'll have to take my word for it (haha yea right).
Clutch engaged means your foot is off of the pedal, Einstein. When you press the pedal you DISENGAGE the clutch, which disconnects your drivetrain from your flywheel.
Seriously... you are probably just trolling or something because there's no way you know this little about how cars work. Otherwise, ditch the attitude, please.
Off throttle, the drivetrain is turning the engine, which turns all the belts and keeps your car fully functioning. There is no reason for the ECU to feed fuel into the engine if it would not otherwise stall. Hence, the 2000 rpm condition. Someone quoted the service manual with this fact, unfortunately I don't have the exact page to give you, so you'll have to take my word for it (haha yea right).
Clutch engaged means your foot is off of the pedal, Einstein. When you press the pedal you DISENGAGE the clutch, which disconnects your drivetrain from your flywheel.
Seriously... you are probably just trolling or something because there's no way you know this little about how cars work. Otherwise, ditch the attitude, please.
01-14-2008, 10:58 PM
#74
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NO shlt sherlock.. Foot of the clutch mean the clutch is engaged... Try slowing down your car with the clutch pedeal being pushed in... YOU CANT.. Cause the CLUTCH is what helps slow down the car when you downshift.. DURR>>>
All your comments in BOLD is just pure nonsense... No matter what, fuel is being fed into the engine when the car is on.... Belts are turning the engine? hahahahah... Off the throttle the engine is still running,,, picture your car in neutral.....
All your comments in BOLD is just pure nonsense... No matter what, fuel is being fed into the engine when the car is on.... Belts are turning the engine? hahahahah... Off the throttle the engine is still running,,, picture your car in neutral.....
Wow you're just a total jerk. Oh well, I'm not going to waste any more of time with you. You can choose to keep knowing everything while being totally ignorant at the same time. Everything you just said is wrong, again. Read some howstuffworks articles or something.
I'm done with you. Enjoy.
01-14-2008, 11:10 PM
#75
Registered User
guys, stop the fighting, drive the way you drive.