chilibowl

Are you either retarded or blind? or both?

gan78mao

iTrader: (1)

rev match 4-3-2 just to practice my heel toe!! HEHE!

TerribleONE453

rev match and down shift usually. More fun

rgpie75

Clearly this makes no sense.

chasemyaccord

iTrader: (2)

I feel like there are two definitions of "engine braking" floating out there. The one Gday is talking about refers to when you downshift and slowly let off the clutch so that your engine rpm's have to match the transmission, whereas chilibowl talks about the engine acting as a "natural brake" once you've properly downshifted and rev-matched. I would think using it in Gday's context wouldn't be good for your engine, but the latter wouldn't.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Gday

Um.. Google it son.. Downshifting to "slow down" wears the clutch... I rather use my brakes.. WTF was it desinged for?

What cost more to replace? A new Clutch or new pads?

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/in...6000437AAu7xgf

wireboltman

Once again:

In 39 yrs of driving and about 37 years of owning many, many manual transmission vehicles, I have never worn a clutch out.

And I stand completely guilty of downshifting every now and again and never leaving myself defenseless by putting the vehicle in neutral while slowing down.

GiGGaplease

does engine braking causing unnecessary wear on the engine? i would think so, just pop it into neutral and use your brake, thats what its for...

bboysteele

Ok, I just have to step in here to say this. Theoretically it wears out the clutch especially if you are not doing it correctly. If you are doing it right then I seriously doubt that you will see the difference. Like wireboltman said he has never worn out a clutch which could be because he is good at shifting or he has never own the car long enough to have to replace the clutch. I am betting he has owned a manual long enough though but only he can say. I owned a 97 Geo Metro and this was my first manual. I bought it at 37000+ miles and drove it to 115000 miles. The clutch was never replaced. I always downshifted and I even races it a little because I was young and stupid. When I blew up the engine due to it being low on oil, the mechanic I took it to told me the clutch was about to burn out so I should replace that too. I took it to a friend and he looked at it (due to the were trying to screw me on the price to replace and install the engine) with his pops who is a master mechanic and he said it was worn but still have about 20,000 miles to go at least. Again I had no problem with the clutch. My friend who owns that Roush Mustang had to replace his clutch around 25,000 miles because he always raced it and left it in gear while waiting at lights. The funny thing is that he put it in neutral when stopping to save the clutch....go figure. lol But because he held down the clutch at lights and didn't shift right he wore out his clutch quickly. It all depends on how you drive. Do what you want. If you really suck at shifting and downshifting then put it in neutral and brake if that makes you feel better BUT I would recommend learning to shift and downshift correctly. Like I said in my earlier post, I do both depending upon the situation. If you really want to know which situation I use for each then let me know and I will add it to this post.

DetroitG37Joe

iTrader: (2)

OK here's my bone to pick with the downshifts when coming to to a STOP...For us newbies, or at least for me, usually a rev-match on a downshift may be a lil bit off just enough to actually have the effect of the car slightly increasing in speed or at best remaining in the same speed for a few sec longer than you'd like as opposed to just braking...I am still working on rev-matching downishifts to the point where the car does does go any quicker and just coasts at the higher RPM. But for now downshifts approacing a stop typically mess up the timeliness of my stop.

If this is the case should I just keep practicing the precise rev matched downshifts or just keep in gear and slow with brakes and shift to N at a slow speed?

Forgive me for being a n00b at M/T's - I love my M/T - but i am guilty of downshifting only for turns, parking lots, etc and for quick pick up at higher speeds like on highway and what not.......

DetroitG37Joe

iTrader: (2)

Umm G-day...By the way. You're Yahoo answer was given "correct" status at 100% from one vote based on that guy's write up...doesn't help ur case much. Not saying it's BS - just that the answer has a small backing to it...

solopresident

honestly i just throw it in neutral for the most part. let the brakes do the work vs the clutch. replacing normal brake pads are cheaper than pads

GiGGaplease

thats what im saying, what is the point of making the engine brake for you when you can do it yourself? that engine braking is unnecessary, just use the brake pedal...

wireboltman

Yes, I am good at shifting.
Before synchronizers, we used to shift without the clutch every once in awhile just to have a little fun. Double clutch, just the right rev match, and a delicate touch on the shifter to feel the right moment to slip it into the next gear. I learned how to drive a standard when I was 9-10 yrs old.

And yes, of the 6 or so manual transmission cars I've owned, all but one were used. None of the used cars had ever had a clutch put in and I ran them into the ground. The next stop was the junkyard. NEVER had a clutch problem.
Same thing with the Subaru I bought new in 1974. One of the toughest and best cars I've ever owned.

Put 145,000 tough miles on that one. (That kind of mileage was unheard of back then, except for some big ol' V8 cruisers.)
Getting stuck in the snow and in mud out in the woods. Jamming it into 1st then reverse--then first, then reverse to try and rock yourself out.

Ended up careening throught the woods in a POR cup race one up here, one time.
Way the hell out in the bush, 2 rut roads--60-70 mph, pitch black, beating the hell of the car. Keeping up with drivers from all over the country and a few from Japan and Europe

Once again.

NEVER had a clutch problem-

I only drive my FX in manual mode. I'm an expert at it. I have it down to a science. People ask if I'm driving a standard because I've perfected how to make it sound exactly like a manual transmission. I just wanted to do that and I have. Took the better part of a year to perfect it, but it's reflexive, now. I don't even think about.

After someone had responded to an earlier post of mine when I said how silly all this intricate rev matching was, I decided to see when I downshift with my FX. I downshift every time I come to a stop. Every time.
(Somebody had also posted anything more 1K rpm difference should be rev matched)

Well, lo and behold, here's that old common sense thing somebody mentioned kicking in. I reflexively downshift for all normal driving in the 400-500 through 700-800 rpm range between gears. Well within the "said guidelines."
Like somebody said: This isn't rocket science.

I run my FX hard every time I drive it. I keep the ECU tuned and trained to what I want out of it.

On the track, I really pound it. I downshift out of 3rd into 2nd right below redline coming into corners. The VQ engine redlines at 6625. In second gear, that's about exactly 65 mph. The TCU will not let me dump it into 2nd until about 60------and I do. I must have all the braking power I can get my hands on besides the brakes.

I can get an extra 125 rpm's out of it before the rev limiter kicks in. From 2nd to 3rd, you can take it up to 6750 and shift. Even with the delay, you'll end up in 3rd gear at almost exactly 4800rpm which is the VQ's maximum 270 Ft lb torque number. In automatic mode, you'll end up hitting 3rd at about 4400rpm. I've learned how to get a little bit more out of it.

In 2004 the FX and I think the G35 came out with the rev matching feature. I don't like it one bit.

That's why I'm probably going to buy the G37 with the stick shift. Since I intend to autocross and track that, too, I'll take care of whatever rev matching needs to be done---not some computer.

wireboltman

The mechanics of what's being discussed here is apparently going over many heads.
Not much more to be said.

Each to their own-