chasemyaccord

iTrader: (2)

Okay, I think I understand most, if not all, of what's being discussed here. I'll try these new techniques soon (i haven't driven my car for almost a week!).

One more noob question though. So while downshifting, if you rev match it perfectly, are you supposed to be able to just drop the clutch and the car wont jerk at all? or are you still supposed to let off a bit easy?

Gday

http://www.edmunds.com/advice/youngd...0/article.html

Myth #3: Use the clutch to save your brakes.
The clutch can theoretically be used as a braking device when slowing down, but this is more trouble than it's worth. First, if you're using the clutch to slow a car to "save your brakes" you better be really good with the clutch. If you're not smooth in your downshifting you'll be putting extra wear on the clutch.

Anyone want to guess which components cost more to replace — brake pads or a clutch plate? You're better off just pushing the clutch pedal in and leaving it in, and/or shifting to neutral, when slowing down in a manual-shift vehicle — especially if you aren't extremely smooth at downshifting. If you are smooth at downshifting and you feel like going through the trouble, you can constantly downshift and release the clutch as you slow down. But even doing that action smoothly won't make your brakes last appreciably longer.

wireboltman

As I said, earlier:

I thought coasting was illegal or at least it used to be.
I would venture a guess that it's illegal in every state. I quickly picked four to look up.

http://law.onecle.com/michigan/257-m...l-257-678.html


http://www.dds.ga.gov/docs/forms/FullDriversManual.pdf


http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21710.htm


http://www.orland-park.il.us/village...le9Chapt14.pdf

I can only speculate that we have a bunch of people driving manual transmissions that just flat out don't have a clue how to drive one. This includes the obviously challenged "Writers of the Myths."

I'll ask again.
Do you put your automatic transmission in neutral every time you come to a stop??
If not, why not?

iko

I usually brake Flintstone's style. Last year I invested in some shoes.

mal_TX

You can do this in the G35 6mt and the G37 6mt as well. I'm not great at it, so I don't, but I've done just to say it can be done. It does not feel violent or bad in any way, just less smooth because I'm not perfect at having the revs flawlessly matched and the 6mt gears are close-ratio so there's a lot more more turns happening in every gear than you might think -- higher revs, harder to perfectly match.

Since you can downshift without using the clutch AT ALL, then I guess it should be possible to use engine braking without wearing the clutch ? Kidding.... kinda.

DetroitG37Joe

iTrader: (2)

Wireboltman - Im from MI too like I mentioned before and seems our state is more concerned with coasting in N while on a downward slope as it increases chances for unsafe braking/loss of control/etc. I suppose when breaking on flat land or upward slope it may be legal. This is speakin on behalf of just Michigan of course...

Gday

Engine braking involves the clutch... Engine braking w/o the clutch is impossible.... Unless you shift it it to neutral.

wireboltman

You have to make sure you double clutch. Clutch in/shift to neutral/clutch out/give er a little gas/clutch in/gently pull or push until you can feel the sweet spot.

Downshifting is a whole other story---much harder to to do. I never was real good at downshifting that way. Specially without a synchronized transmission to help.

And, true enough, I've never tried it with a 6 speed with much closer ratios.

GiGGaplease

but really who on earth will give out a ticket for popping the gear in neutral going up a hill? automatic and manual are two different things.

wireboltman

Just making a point.
You meant going downhill-----didn't you??


If you're going to drive a manual transmission vehicle, learn how to drive it the way it's meant to be driven.

It is not an automatic and if someone's too lazy to go through all the motions involved with the mechanics of driving one, then they really should stick with an automatic.

I'll ask again:
Do you put an automatic in neutral every time you come to a stop??

My mother never drove an automatic in her life and used to downshift in a normal fashion when coming to a stop. Right up till she quit driving.

NEVER wore out a clutch in her 72+ yrs of driving-

DetroitG37Joe

iTrader: (2)

YO GDay - Respect. Nice find - Edmunds is a pretty solid source....Honestly to me it's really starting to look like my method ain't all that bad....I was braking and trying the whole downshift thing and it seemed ludicrous to me because when I begin braking - I have a limited distance to stop safely - and to drop the gears and rev match was just delaying my stop because I had to take my FOOT OFF of the brake and give it some gas for rev matching - which kept my car's momentum driving forward TOO GREAT for proper braking towards the red light, stopped car, etc. in front of me. I know Im a noob but I just dont get it .... For now what works for me as an M/T driver is to keep in gear till I slow down and drop to N while braking at a slow speed.

Thanks for the find GDay! I wasn't tryn to be rude earlier bro.

mal_TX

?! What?

Engine braking means that the engine is slowing the car down. You don't need the clutch for that. All you need to do is be in gear and let your foot off the accelerator. The car slows down via engine braking.

If you are in a high gear for your speed, the deceleration might not satisfy you. In this case, you want to downshift to a lower gear and then do the same.

Engine braking is NOT taking your stick out of 6th, putting it in 4th, and then slowly lifting the clutch to raise the RPMs. That's harmful to your drive train and if you screw it up and let the clutch out too quickly (say, your foot slips off the pedal) you could actually crash from the sudden negative torque applied to the rear tires (equivalent handbrake pull).

If you are "engine braking" by burning up your clutch on a non-revmatched downshift, please stop.

mal_TX

This is good advice. Stay in your gear and brake, drop to N when your revs are too low. If you want increased stopping power from the engine, you have to rev match. If you do not know how to heal-toe your revmatching so that you do not need to take your foot off the brake, then yes, this is a bad idea for you.

mal_TX

You can actually pull off an upshift and a downshift without any clutch pedal involvement whatsoever. On any mt, synchro'd or not. It is harder or easier depending on how direct the MT is... that is, how much you can feel what is going on.

On the G37, it is, I would say moderate. It seems a little harder than on my G35.

Anyway, try it sometime. Lift off the throttle to "unload" the tranny, pull the stick out of gear (if you do this right it will almost "fall" out with a very gentle pull) and into N. Now rev your engine to the proper RPMs for the next gear (up or down) and apply some pressure to the stick. When the rpms are perfectly matched, the stick will "fall" into the gear position when the dogteeth on collars bite the gear.

I've done this a few times to illustrate how an MT works, but no, I don't make a habit of it. Some sports car race drivers use this technique (with a non-synchronized tranny to make it a little easier) for all their downshifts so that they can left-foot brake into corners like an F1 driver. Left-foot brake allows them to balance the car at both ends.

wireboltman

I'm sorry, but this just isn't that technical.
Knowing how to heel-toe your rev matching is lightyears more technical than just plain, normal downshifting. I've never heel toed any car I've had and don't know how to do it. I don't race enough that it matters.

I would guess that in 95% or better of anybody's daily driving experience upon approaching a stop sign, they're going to be already slowing enough(anticipating what's next and not still going like a bat of of hell) that they can leave it in the gear they're in till they get down into a range of rpms that needs no rev matching at all in order to slide down into the next lower gear or maybe even two gears lower---whatever.

This just isn't that complicated-