Marc Collins

OK, this is the opposite to what has been reported by blnewt above.

Could you (or others, too, please!) confirm that the panic braking still does induce downshifting in DS and then also please try to confirm again that it is really GONE from D?

I thought we had settled this issue, but apparently not! And the panic braking is "panic" enough to trigger the seat belt pretensioners, not just "spirited driving" type of harder than normal braking.

Adam West

iTrader: (3)

I should clarify. The car will still rev match downshift during hard breaking in DS mode. I however did not notice any panic breaking rev matched downshifting in normal D, this has been removed.

Marc Collins

Thanks for the quick reply. The bulletin implied that was the case (removed from D), but others seem to be experiencing it still. ?!?!?!?!?!

You did a "panic-qualifying" brake test in D? I don't normally encounter those in my own driving, but would be the type of person to test after an update like this. Sounds like you are, too

(FWIW, I would prefer that it still be in D.)

MPax

I have the rev matching in DS mode only as far as I can tell. Hwy speed (80) down to a traffic light does not induce a rev matched down shift until you flip over to DS mode.

mikeb2004

Note: I'm not talking about panic braking here, just normal spirited driving. Its rev match behaviors were ridiculous and unpredictable at times in "D" before, IMO, with the 2011 program (equivalent to 075 update). It is not goofy anymore. Same for "DS" except it downshifts aggressively still. I will let others test "panic braking".

However, personally, I see no need for the engine and trans to create unnecessary drama for the MAJORITY driver while braking hard in "D". It would distract the MAJORITY driver of this vehicle in an emergency situation. Might you gain a teensy bit more braking with a lowest-gear-downshift? Sure, but the gain is likely more often offset by the loss of concentration due to confusion of the MAJORITY driver during the emergency where the car perhaps sounds like it is fighting you. Maybe the AVERAGE driver in this situation might thing they accidentally stepped on the gas, and remove their foot from the brake? That's a disaster. I drive the vehicle very hard and I just dont want it to do this in "D". If I want lots of drama, I'll use the paddles and orchestrate that drama myself.

Back on my point, which is not about panic braking: The really noticeable rev matching effect seems to be gone from "D" although I have not tested the extreme of inputs.... HOWEVER, it definitely still downshifts for useful engine braking in "D", it has done it many times already in situations where it was useful but without any drama. In "DS" it definitely rev matches, gives plenty of engine braking and adds to the fun. I do not feel like any functionality was lost in "DS". It is just smarter across the board.

Marc Collins

Once again we are mixing up panic braking with normal/hard braking.

The test is simple, so please do this while in D:

Drive at a steady speed with foot on the accelerator. As quickly as you can jump off the gas and stab the brake pedal--quickly and hard. So hard that the seat belt pretensioner thinks you are about to slam into a wall or transport truck and activates This is not a level of braking you should ever encounter in any kind of normal driving even most situations on the track would not induce this if you are driving/racing smoothly (as you should if you want the best lap time).

PANIC braking = you are hanging on for dear life. Does the car downshift (irrelevant if it is rev-matched) to the lowest possible gear (too hit approximately 5,000 rpm) in this circumstance? In D?

mikeb2004

I experienced a glitch in the new 027 program.... Nothing major IMO, but just letting people know.

I'm quoting my own post which ended up at the bottom of the last page. Just wondering if anyone else experienced this hiccup in the trans with the 027 update:

It's been 100% great. Except this one time: I was driving around pretty slowly around 10-15 mph up and down, coming up a hill at around 10mph or so coasting to a stop... MEaning the car would have stopped on its own even without brake application, since it was enough of an uphill to stop it. Anyway, I got 2 or 3 rapid clunks/shudders in a row as I slowed to a stop. I was in "D", had not touched the paddles. It wasn't harsh but definitely unusual and my passenger noticed it immediately. I was pretty surprised when that happened, since it has been behaving excellently otherwise. This is not the kind of glitch that will cause me to complain unless it started happening a lot.

Marc Collins

Most auto tranny cars will do that in that situation. It is highly unlikely that it has anything to do with update 027.

There is a steep hill with a stop sign at the top near my house. Every modern transmission car I have driven does that behaviour. It is sensing that you are going uphill and losing speed, so it needs to keep downshifting in case you step on the gas and expect to go. If it didn't care, it would just stay in 3rd or 4th gear until you came to a stop and then downshift smoothly. But it's attempting to be in the right gear at the right time for all circumstances in case you are not rolling to a stop--how does it know whether you are or are not? Gravity is shortening the time between downshifts compared to if you were coasting on flat ground.

By the way, this is the same reason it downshifts during panic braking. Whether you like it or not or whether the majority are scared or surprised (because they don't understand how gears work), the car should always be trying to ensure that you are in the right gear at the right time. The more sudden the inputs (gas, brakes or steering), the higher rpm the engine should be at...all else being equal. Since the car can't know what is going on, it simply follows a program that says sudden inputs are more likely to be followed by other sudden inputs. So it prepares itself the best that it can--as it should for safety reasons.

mikeb2004

I think that the limiting factor in 99% of emergency or panic situations is the driver rather than the vehicle's gear selection. Distracting the typical american driver with anything has proven to be detrimental in almost every situation, let alone emergency situations. There are ideals, and then there are the limitations of reality. I do not want the guy behind me driving a 7AT to get confused when he needs to slam the brakes.

I'm a big fan of personal freedom, and I'm a big fan of treating the driver like they know what they are doing, and the car performing ideally for performance all the time however the reality is that most people don't know what they are doing behind the wheel most of the time. I don't like it, but that's what we have to deal with as a society.

If you/we want "most awesome most driver-centric car", frankly you (and I) live on the wrong continent and you (and I) bought the wrong car and you (and I) bought the wrong transmission.

I also feel that I've gone way off topic with this, so I'm done with this little offshoot of the 7AT transmission reprogram thread.

Back on the topic, I have a lot of automatic transmission cars and they've never done that. I don't know what youve driven, but I can count the number of times my other cars have done something strange on one hand, while it would take a stadium full of hands to count the number of times the 7AT has done something weird. But to be fair, the others haven't done many of the things that this 7AT has done and does (both good and bad). So like I said, its not bothering me, but I consider it an anomaly. I agree that the latest transmissions are known for doing these sorts of things though, but I've not experienced such glitches with my other cars. I experienced unexpected roughness coming to a stop in once in a 2012 Ford Focus too.

Marc Collins

My list of cars that get "confused" by coasting up a steep hill include three Volvo's, two Audi's, a BMW, a M-B and a Honda Odyssey!

TRZ06

You and I share the same issues and frustrations over this issue. I too, am cutting out of this thread finally.

My lemon law case is complete and the car got turned in today.

I am going to a 2009 Corvette Z06, but I did test drive an Audi TT RS and that almost took the Corvette's spot.

When your lease is up, take a look at the TT RS, really fast, light weight and first rate interior.

bitNine

I am taking my car in again in a couple of days to have them do maintenance and look at the transmission again. Drives me crazy on a daily basis. If I can't get Infiniti to give me a solution, I will take legal action against them.

Glad to see that someone has made some headway, but I don't think Infiniti will come up with a solution.

okrim

called infiniti customer service they were no help, they say there are no outstanding tsb for my 2009g37x, i did have the 075 bulletin done earlier in the year, they say there is nothing they can do, does anyone know if the new bulletin is vin specific? or has anyone had this new bulletin applied in Canada?

Marc Collins

Yes, I just did mine today.

Took the car in to Downtown Infiniti (Toronto) to get an oil change and the update done . Had to spend half an hour arguing with the reception tech that I wanted the update (took a paper cppy of the service bulletin) and explaining that it was legit even though it doesn't yet show up "on their screen."

Bottom-line is that they had the car all day and it took them so long to find and/or apply the update they ran out of time to do the oil change. (I told them to do the update first and that if they couldn't find or do the update, I would take the car to another dealer who could do the update...which there is one, but it's not located 5 minuted from my work.) They were not impressed with my approach, but I can guarantee if I hadn't pressured and insisted and brought the print-out, I'd get the standard (sub-par, incompetent) service and no update.

But now, what some of you are waiting for is the low-down on what has changed!

Major Issue 1: Aggressive Downshifting

As readers here know, I liked that feature and was glad it was in D and DS in the original programming. If I wanted a Dodge minivan-acting tranny I wouldn't have bought a so-called sport sedan.

Well, it's gone. They have eliminated the aggressive downshifting/engine braking below 40 km/h (25 mph) in both D and DS. I am quite disappointed that it was not left in DS. I can accept that the majority of customers asked for Lexus-style shifting, but that could have been satisfied by changing D and leaving DS sporty since the last time I checked, the "S" in DS is supposed to be "sport."

Above 40 km/h, it seems about the same as before to me. It is quite artificial, actually....as you coast down from higher speeds it has the normal engine braking and then as soon as you hit the magic mark, the revs drop and it goes into 1970's auto tranny slop mode and you coast along like an old Cadillac--except, it is quick to respond if you do step on the gas. Still, I think they should have not put this boundary into the DS mode and left it the way the original D was.

Major Issue 2: Lag

I never had any lag on the original 2009 programming, so there is basically no dofference here for me, but if I had lag, I would be SO happy that it was gone!

Major Issue 3: Harsh Shifting

The tranny shifts like butter now. Significant and noticeable improvement all around.

Major Issue 4: Panic Braking Downshifts

Some people said it was in DS, but not D. Others said both. Others couldn't figure out what we were referring to and thought it was rev-matching. I am shocked that they came up with a solution even better than what I wanted, which was to leave the panic braking downshifting in place because it is a safety issue.

A new, better version is in place in both D and DS. Since the increase in rpms that naturally happens when downshifting (increasing engine braking) apparently "scared" or "surprised" people enough to complain about it, I presumed Infiniti just dumped it out of D and left it in DS. But no, they actually improved it and built it in to both!

What used to happen is that if you panic braked, the car would downshift aggressively to ensure that you were in the right gear for acceleration or accident avoidance. Just the way a Formula 1 driver would, except we're mosty too slow and dumb to be able to do it, especially under panic circumstances, so good for the car to do it for us.

Now, when you panic brake, the car waits for you to take your foot OFF the brake pedal to do its downshifting. This is brilliant. You don't get any "scary" engine revving while you are braking, but in the time it takes to switch your foot from brake to gas, you are already in the right, slightly less aggressive, gear ready to take off. The revving happens when your foot is off the brake, so presumably this won't confuse people. Of course, if you brake to a complete stop (don't take your foot off the brake), the downshifting doesn't need to occur. A very elegant design and even better from a safety perspective than the old programming.

Other Points:

Mileage - the engine now revs higher than before to reach a shift point. This guarantees lower fuel economy, but helps the shifts be smoother. Mission accomplished on the smoothness, but if anyone thinks they are going to get better fuel economy you are dreaming.

Exhaust Note - as expected, there is zero change to the exhaust note.

DS "Neutering" - yes, DS Mode is almost identical to D now. If you drive calmly, there is no difference. It is slightly more responsive if you want to drive aggressively, but as others have pointed out, the new D is so responsive that it is unlikely anyone needs DS...other than as a way to access M.

M and manual shifting - slightly improved. Shifts are a bit faster and it does allow slightly more manual control (what a concept!) by permitting upshifts at lower rpms than before. It is still infuriating in that it overrides about half of what any normal person would want to do in M.

Conclusion: for those stuck with the interim problem-plagued updates, run to the dealer to get this. For me, I lost the aggressive downshifting that I loved (thought it would be in DS at least and that I could just use DS by default). I gained smoother shifting. I gained a better panic braking system. I gained a slightly better M. DS is now pretty useless, but so was the old one, but on the opposite end of the spectrum (too aggressive), so that's neither a loss nor gain, though it could/should have been a gain by making DS like the original D, but including the new smoother shifting). Bottom-line...I will probably miss the downshifting more than I like the new features. The downshifting affected my driving every time I got in the car. The new features, aside from the smoothness, are used/noticed very sporadically.

What should have happened was to fix the smoothness and lag, but leave us with two distinct modes--D for Lexus/Toyota people and DS for Infiniti/BMW people.

Oh well....

Almatti

Don't worry Marc, some of the "old" features do return over a little time..... Not exactly as before the reflash , but on some days ( I still can't get over how this ECM/TCM can vary the performance based on various factors [barometric pressure, temperature, etc], you will find a drives a bit differently. Overall, because I HAD the Lag / Hesitation. I'm glad for this change. The car is much better IMO. I do agree with your analogy, almost point by point, (you stated you didn't really have the Lag - a non issue for you). I will take the Panic Test Drive test to see if i get the same reaction one day soon.

Mikeb, I have felt the same "Clunking" at only very specific times on a few occassions in similar Slowing Down circumstances. i disagree with Marc that it is not entirely normal behavior of ATs. But again, this is a new breed of highly automated multi-geared transmissions. This is going to happen; There is no Perfection, although at $40K + you'd like to think so....You and Marc should : "Fight Nice"...as my MIL used to say..Good Luck.