Vendor Comments/Reviews/Feedback Comments, Reviews, and Feedback on MyG37 Vendors

Forged Performance - My Experience

Thread Tools
 
Search this Thread
 
Old 04-16-2010, 02:35 PM
  #31  
christian655321
Registered User
iTrader: (5)
 
christian655321's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,190
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
3 seperate customers, 3 G37's , and all 3 with nightmare TT installs - followed by GTM pulling the plug on Forged. hmmm...
christian655321 is offline  
Old 04-16-2010, 02:39 PM
  #32  
beerme986
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
beerme986's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: PA
Posts: 1,350
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
wow ..this is insane
beerme986 is offline  
Old 04-16-2010, 03:01 PM
  #33  
Gamedog
Sam Rothstein
iTrader: (9)
 
Gamedog's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Riverside/San Diego, CA
Posts: 10,435
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes on 8 Posts
<----- Mind = BLOWN


I cant believe this. i dont even know what to say.

OP I am TERRIBLY sorry for this. Same goes to the other member on here that you speak of.
Gamedog is offline  
Old 04-16-2010, 03:03 PM
  #34  
freesurfer
Registered Member
 
freesurfer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Bay Area, CA
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by freesurfer
When the problem escalates to the point of needing a lawyer, then the choice in vendors was a very bad one. One should not need to "get blunt" to have good customer service.
Upon reconsideration, hiring a lawyer was a good decision. It's disappointing to see that some vendors are so self-serving, with no regard to the customer. I now understand GTM's actions to distance themselves from this type of deceiptful and shoddy workmanship.

GL with the case, I hope the others will step forward and tell their stories, even if theirs are smaller in scope than yours.
freesurfer is offline  
Old 04-16-2010, 03:16 PM
  #35  
SisterCharles
Registered User
 
SisterCharles's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 6
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
wow!!! words can be bent and misconstrued, but pics don't LIE!!!

how can any business put their name behind that kind of workmanship!!!
SisterCharles is offline  
Old 04-16-2010, 03:17 PM
  #36  
jnguyen
Registered User
iTrader: (16)
 
jnguyen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 6,128
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
I was wondering when you and David were going to post your experience. Glad you finally did and sorry for what you have to go through.
jnguyen is offline  
Old 04-16-2010, 03:29 PM
  #37  
sharif@forged
Former Sponsor
iTrader: (2)
 
sharif@forged's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Marietta, GA
Posts: 1,032
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I am glad we can finally clear the air on this. I think we are all getting really tired of these interelated posts. All of the recent forum excitment has revolved around this car. Doug and I had agreed to figure out a way to settle this privatly but since he took the initiative to publically post his complete story, I will respond.

Doug is leaving out some key points, and there quite a bit of misinformation that needs to be clarified

FACTS:

1) We never threatened a lawsuit against anyone that posts the truth about their experience with Forged. We have always defended ourselves vigorously against false statements, lies, exaggerations, etc.

2) We have always been willing to address any issue with a vehicle that has left our shop. We've been in this business and active with the community for 5 years, and we aren't going anywhere. As I've mentioned in the previous threads, we work on many hundreds of cars each year.

3) Doug decided to take his car to GTM unbeknowst to us, which is his right. Unfortunatly, GTM created a $20,000 repair order. Here is the estimate, and you guys can judge for yourselves. $5800 labor to R/R the ENTIRE turbo kit which is not needed. GTM charged Doug $2101.40 for a brand new turbo pair, instead of charging Doug for the .86AR housing which would have been about $500?? The ONLY difference between a stage I and stage II kit is the inside dimensions of the exhaust housing so there is no reason to purchase another complete turbocharger assembly. GTM charged Doug $2500 in just labor to replace the engine harness which is at most an 8-10 hr job....if you take your sweet time. These are just a couple of examples from the estimate below. Once another shop gets involved with my customers, obviously the other shop will conduct themselves in a manner that is self-serving. This is what happened here, and things escelated into the Forged vs. GTM battle that continues now.





4) The installation and figment issues are real. We aren't the only ones that have experienced this but of course no other shops wish to speak about this publicly or their GTM dealer status might be pulled. It's a very small world in the tuner business, and nobody wants to burn bridges.
Here is a picture of the GTM downpipes on a G35 TT we recently completed. Notice those darn brackets don't line up. So we'll be cutting them off and welding them in the correct spot, and eating the time and material since we can't charge this to the customer. This is an example of the reasons we sometimes steer customers towards other types of kits. We spend a lot of time massaging these kits to fix, calling for missing parts, wrong parts, and endless back and forth with GTM. The clearancing you see on Doug's piping is to clear the steering column and dump tubes.


5) Doug's harness was melted and discolored (still perfectly functional and repairable) not because of improper hardware as GTM stated on the work order. Instead, the exhaust leak was from a badly warped flange. We found this exhaust leak before Doug arrived, and spent several hours R/R this pipe and machining it as flat as possible. We used a smoke machine to recheck for leaks and observed none. GTM charged Doug $4700 for this repair (new OEM harness and labor)
Here is a pic of the warped flange. I notified Sam of this while the car was here, but never got a response back.


6) Now lets talk about the turbocharger situation. I have given purchase orders to Doug's attorney showing them we did in fact purchase two identical kits. We had the wrong part numbers on the PO but they were identical. One kit was for Doug's G37, and the other for Dave's G37. When it was brought to our attention that we may have received Stage I housing instead of Stage II housings, I checked Dave's engine since it was on the ground, and we did in fact have a Stage II housing on his car. I made the assumption that Doug's would also be stage II since we ordered identical PO's/kits. Now, we know Doug's car had Stage I while Dave's car had Stage II. This was careless on my part, and I take responsibility for it. There was no deception involved or intended at all. It's human nature to make assumptions, and that is what I did here.

7) With respect to any damage to Doug's car, of course we take 100% responsibility for that, and always have. And just for clarification, nobody hit or drove into Doug's car, it was basically a door ding and went unnoticed until Doug picked up his car and advised us of it. Either way, I agreed to pay for the repair which was about $400 at Hong's or $800 at the dealership body shop.

8) The person that work on Doug's car is no longer employed by us. We have put in place a strong QC routine that will insure these oversights of missing clips and such so this won't happen again. They are also communicating issues as they appear rather than trying to resolve them on their own. We have the strongest group of current technicians ever working for us. They all have 5 plus years of experience in both high performance and dealership environments, families, kids, and stable commitments to Forged. We also have Scott as our GM which provides an addition layer of oversight and follow up.

9) I have offered Doug a full refund on the labor performed at Forged, and have always been willing to work with him in a reasonable manner to get his car back up and running. Unfortunately, he hired a lawyer which in turn, meant that we now have a lawyer, so I can't really comment much more on this topic. We are well insured and capitalized and this distraction will not have ANY impact on our financial condition.

This will be my final comments on this matter, and I still hope we can reasonably resolve this with Doug, and put this behind us all.

Last edited by sharif@forged; 04-16-2010 at 03:47 PM.
sharif@forged is offline  
Old 04-16-2010, 03:48 PM
  #38  
Modme
Registered Member
iTrader: (17)
 
Modme's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,585
Likes: 0
Received 80 Likes on 56 Posts
So how do you explain the hammered pipes? How about the lack of care for the OEM parts that were taken off from his car?

I dont understand how Forged does things. But when GTM is working on a customer's car, they have a big box that they place all the customer's parts in. When the car's done, everything that was taken off the car is given back to the customer. So how was the cruise control lost? Why did the OP have to track down the exhaust manifold and misc parts from his car?

If I were the OP, I would not settle for the same turbos with housing replacement. With all the hammer marks, running the car at high boost, and fitment issues, who knows what was damage is already done to the turbochargers.

Also, when the OP brought up all his concerns, there was a lack of care and everything "was normal"

-Exhaust smell in cabin, "its normal"
-10 psi boost uncontrolled "its normal"
-hammered pipes "its normal"
Modme is offline  
Old 04-16-2010, 03:53 PM
  #39  
Ivoidwarranties
Premier Member

iTrader: (7)
 
Ivoidwarranties's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Omaha
Posts: 2,078
Received 28 Likes on 14 Posts
I want to hear more about the fitment issues. This isn't the first time I've heard of these kits not lining up where they need to. I want to know how GTM deals with these fitment issues in house.
Ivoidwarranties is offline  
Old 04-16-2010, 03:55 PM
  #40  
wakeboardr116
Registered User
iTrader: (6)
 
wakeboardr116's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 3,308
Received 12 Likes on 9 Posts
Thats the nice thing about GTM. Something isn't fitting right they can just walk over and grab another one off the shelf.
wakeboardr116 is offline  
Old 04-16-2010, 04:12 PM
  #41  
philter25
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
 
philter25's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Location: Maryland
Posts: 708
Received 11 Likes on 8 Posts
Doug is leaving out some key points, and there quite a bit of misinformation that needs to be clarified

FACTS:

1) We never threatened a lawsuit against anyone that posts the truth about their experience with Forged. We have always defended ourselves vigorously against false statements, lies, exaggerations, etc.
You say he is leaving out some key info and then state that you vigorously defend yourself against false statements, lies, and and exaggerations, yet your responses below fail to comment on the overall horrible install of the kit and the numerous mistakes, and instead point the blame to GTM. How come we didnt hear about fitament issues in the last thread where you responded and the owner took pictures of the horrible install job? I find it odd that you could respond numerous times in that thread and not comment once on the fitament issues, and that excuse comes out in this thread. Both install jobs looked horrible. Both had banged up pipes, missing bolts, connections that didnt match up, dented in pieces here, cut plastic and chassis there. Yet no mention of fitament issues with that install....... If there are fitament issues, wouldnt it be better practice to let the customer know before you bang their parts with a hammer to make them fit?

2) We have always been willing to address any issue with a vehicle that has left our shop. We've been in this business and active with the community for 5 years, and we aren't going anywhere. As I've mentioned in the previous threads, we work on many hundreds of cars each year.
After spending that much money to get a shoddy job and after you charged him for a stage 2 and installed a stage 1, why would he want to contine to work with you to let you attempt to fix the problem? Maybe if it was 1 or 2 little things I would be willing to fix it, but Doug listed MANY MANY issues. Can you blame the guy? Theres no way in hell I would let a company who did a complete botch job attempt to fix their complete botched job on my 40k car.

) Doug decided to take his car to GTM unbeknowst to us, which is his right. Unfortunatly, GTM created a $20,000 repair order. Here is the estimate, and you guys can judge for yourselves. $5800 labor to R/R the ENTIRE turbo kit which is not needed. GTM charged Doug $2101.40 for a brand new turbo pair, instead of charging Doug for the .86AR housing which would have been about $500?? The ONLY difference between a stage I and stage II kit is the inside dimensions of the exhaust housing so there is no reason to purchase another complete turbocharger assembly. GTM charged Doug $2500 in just labor to replace the engine harness which is at most an 8-10 hr job....if you take your sweet time. These are just a couple of examples from the estimate below. Once another shop gets involved with my customers, obviously the other shop will conduct themselves in a manner that is self-serving. This is what happened here, and things escelated into the Forged vs. GTM battle that continues now.
So the guy who charged him for a stage 2 and put in a stage 1 and overcharged him 565 for the down pipes that the customer caught and didnt want him ordering the kit for GTM so he could pocket the discount is complaining that GTM overcharged him?

4) The installation and figment issues are real. We aren't the only ones that have experienced this but of course no other shops wish to speak about this publicly or their GTM dealer status might be pulled. It's a very small world in the tuner business, and nobody wants to burn bridges.
Here is a picture of the GTM downpipes on a G35 TT we recently completed. Notice those darn brackets don't line up. So we'll be cutting them off and welding them in the correct spot, and eating the time and material since we can't charge this to the customer. This is an example of the reasons we sometimes steer customers towards other types of kits. We spend a lot of time massaging these kits to fix, calling for missing parts, wrong parts, and endless back and forth with GTM. The clearancing you see on Doug's piping is to clear the steering column and dump tubes.
Wouldnt a good shop point out all the fitament issues of the kit to the customer so the customer knew it was a problem with the kit and not the install? Its rather convenient after the crap install and having pipes bent to blame it on fitament problems of the kit. If I was having a kit installed that had fitament problems, I would want to know about it so I could contact the manufacturer and have them send me a piece that fits.

No one wants to spend 20k for a kit that has to be beaten with a hammer to fit. If there are fitament issues, you tell the customer and have those parts sent back to GTM and replaced. If I order an intake and it doesnt fit, Im not going to cut it in half, re-weld it together, and install it on my car. I paid for a kit and the kit was supposed to fit. I didnt pay to have some parts fit, and other parts to be banged and cut and welded to fit.

6) Now lets talk about the turbocharger situation. I have given purchase orders to Doug's attorney showing them we did in fact purchase two identical kits. We had the wrong part numbers on the PO but they were identical. One kit was for Doug's G37, and the other for Dave's G37. When it was brought to our attention that we may have received Stage I housing instead of Stage II housings, I checked Dave's engine since it was on the ground, and we did in fact have a Stage II housing on his car. I made the assumption that Doug's would also be stage II since we ordered identical PO's/kits. Now, we know Doug's car had Stage I while Dave's car had Stage II. This was careless on my part, and I take responsibility for it. There was no deception involved or intended at all. It's human nature to make assumptions, and that is what I did here.
Finally, after 2 completely horrible install the owner takes SOME responsibility.

8) The person that work on Doug's car is no longer employed by us. We have put in place a strong QC routine that will insure these oversights of missing clips and such so this won't happen again. They are also communicating issues as they appear rather than trying to resolve them on their own. We have the strongest group of current technicians ever working for us. They all have 5 plus years of experience in both high performance and dealership environments, families, kids, and stable commitments to Forged. We also have Scott as our GM which provides an addition layer of oversight and follow up.
Seems to be a recurring theme here. When did you put in that strong QC routine? Last week?

7) With respect to any damage to Doug's car, of course we take 100% responsibility for that, and always have. And just for clarification, nobody hit or drove into Doug's car, it was basically a door ding and went unnoticed until Doug picked up his car and advised us of it. Either way, I agreed to pay for the repair which was about $400 at Hong's or $800 at the dealership body shop.
So nobody "hit" his car, but theres a magic door ding? Who caused it? The ding-fairy? Someone hit his car with something. Dings dont appear. Ive had a neighbor's soccer ball bounce off the side of my car and it didnt leave a ding. Something had to hit it with force that was more than just the casual brush into the side of his car.

But I guess the employee who hit the side of his car decided not to speak up and admit to the mistake and just hope that no one would notice it. Or is the guy who hit his car the same person that was fired?
philter25 is offline  
Old 04-16-2010, 04:21 PM
  #42  
Kidcane
Florida G Club
iTrader: (7)
 
Kidcane's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Tampa
Posts: 8,105
Likes: 0
Received 9 Likes on 9 Posts
I dont think what GTM charged to fix this issue is relevant because if it was not screwed up to begin with then GTM would not be charging anything.

Is this the same guy that was fired for effing up the other car or another guy?
Kidcane is offline  
Old 04-16-2010, 04:37 PM
  #43  
B L U E S L A T E
Registered Member
iTrader: (2)
 
B L U E S L A T E's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: SoCal
Posts: 2,113
Received 2 Likes on 2 Posts
I have heard a few stories about GTM TT kit not fitting correctly. I know C3G had a VHR GTM TT kit installation where I may quote them "They don't fit for ****."

I hope the drama between all parties get resolved as effectively and quickly as possible.
B L U E S L A T E is offline  
Old 04-16-2010, 04:38 PM
  #44  
OMG37
Registered User
iTrader: (2)
 
OMG37's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 401
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
Originally Posted by Kidcane
I dont think what GTM charged to fix this issue is relevant because if it was not screwed up to begin with then GTM would not be charging anything.

Is this the same guy that was fired for effing up the other car or another guy?
I agree with Kidcane.

If I had to spend time removing abused parts and fixing issues caused by another shop, I'd be charging my time for doing that too. I think it's sad that you are trying to throw GTM under the bus in your defense of this thread. It's not about what issues you have with GTM dude...it's about responding to the allegations that your shop did some truely terrible work and how you handled this customer's experience poorly.

There wouldn't be a huge bill from GTM for either party if this was just done right the first time!

Last edited by OMG37; 04-16-2010 at 04:39 PM. Reason: edit
OMG37 is offline  
Old 04-16-2010, 04:52 PM
  #45  
dpjones
Registered User
Thread Starter
 
dpjones's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: St. Peters, MO
Posts: 93
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by sharif@forged
I am glad we can finally clear the air on this. I think we are all getting really tired of these interelated posts. All of the recent forum excitment has revolved around this car. Doug and I had agreed to figure out a way to settle this privatly but since he took the initiative to publically post his complete story, I will respond.

Doug is leaving out some key points, and there quite a bit of misinformation that needs to be clarified

FACTS:

1) We never threatened a lawsuit against anyone that posts the truth about their experience with Forged. We have always defended ourselves vigorously against false statements, lies, exaggerations, etc.

2) We have always been willing to address any issue with a vehicle that has left our shop. We've been in this business and active with the community for 5 years, and we aren't going anywhere. As I've mentioned in the previous threads, we work on many hundreds of cars each year.

3) Doug decided to take his car to GTM unbeknowst to us, which is his right. Unfortunatly, GTM created a $20,000 repair order. Here is the estimate, and you guys can judge for yourselves. $5800 labor to R/R the ENTIRE turbo kit which is not needed. GTM charged Doug $2101.40 for a brand new turbo pair, instead of charging Doug for the .86AR housing which would have been about $500?? The ONLY difference between a stage I and stage II kit is the inside dimensions of the exhaust housing so there is no reason to purchase another complete turbocharger assembly. GTM charged Doug $2500 in just labor to replace the engine harness which is at most an 8-10 hr job....if you take your sweet time. These are just a couple of examples from the estimate below. Once another shop gets involved with my customers, obviously the other shop will conduct themselves in a manner that is self-serving. This is what happened here, and things escelated into the Forged vs. GTM battle that continues now.

4) The installation and figment issues are real. We aren't the only ones that have experienced this but of course no other shops wish to speak about this publicly or their GTM dealer status might be pulled. It's a very small world in the tuner business, and nobody wants to burn bridges.
Here is a picture of the GTM downpipes on a G35 TT we recently completed. Notice those darn brackets don't line up. So we'll be cutting them off and welding them in the correct spot, and eating the time and material since we can't charge this to the customer. This is an example of the reasons we sometimes steer customers towards other types of kits. We spend a lot of time massaging these kits to fix, calling for missing parts, wrong parts, and endless back and forth with GTM. The clearancing you see on Doug's piping is to clear the steering column and dump tubes.

5) Doug's harness was melted and discolored (still perfectly functional and repairable) not because of improper hardware as GTM stated on the work order. Instead, the exhaust leak was from a badly warped flange. We found this exhaust leak before Doug arrived, and spent several hours R/R this pipe and machining it as flat as possible. We used a smoke machine to recheck for leaks and observed none. GTM charged Doug $4700 for this repair (new OEM harness and labor)
Here is a pic of the warped flange. I notified Sam of this while the car was here, but never got a response back.

6) Now lets talk about the turbocharger situation. I have given purchase orders to Doug's attorney showing them we did in fact purchase two identical kits. We had the wrong part numbers on the PO but they were identical. One kit was for Doug's G37, and the other for Dave's G37. When it was brought to our attention that we may have received Stage I housing instead of Stage II housings, I checked Dave's engine since it was on the ground, and we did in fact have a Stage II housing on his car. I made the assumption that Doug's would also be stage II since we ordered identical PO's/kits. Now, we know Doug's car had Stage I while Dave's car had Stage II. This was careless on my part, and I take responsibility for it. There was no deception involved or intended at all. It's human nature to make assumptions, and that is what I did here.

7) With respect to any damage to Doug's car, of course we take 100% responsibility for that, and always have. And just for clarification, nobody hit or drove into Doug's car, it was basically a door ding and went unnoticed until Doug picked up his car and advised us of it. Either way, I agreed to pay for the repair which was about $400 at Hong's or $800 at the dealership body shop.

8) The person that work on Doug's car is no longer employed by us. We have put in place a strong QC routine that will insure these oversights of missing clips and such so this won't happen again. They are also communicating issues as they appear rather than trying to resolve them on their own. We have the strongest group of current technicians ever working for us. They all have 5 plus years of experience in both high performance and dealership environments, families, kids, and stable commitments to Forged. We also have Scott as our GM which provides an addition layer of oversight and follow up.

9) I have offered Doug a full refund on the labor performed at Forged, and have always been willing to work with him in a reasonable manner to get his car back up and running. Unfortunately, he hired a lawyer which in turn, meant that we now have a lawyer, so I can't really comment much more on this topic. We are well insured and capitalized and this distraction will not have ANY impact on our financial condition.

This will be my final comments on this matter, and I still hope we can reasonably resolve this with Doug, and put this behind us all.
I'm not sure what Sharif is talking about when he says we agreed to work this out. Back in December he was suppose to get back with me after he spoke with Sam, and nothing. Earlier this week, as I said in the post, he contacted me asking me if I would keep quiet. I told him I didn't think I could sleep at night and I felt obligated to let people know. I told him he had his 30 days and the ball was in his (or his attorney) court.

1) He and his attorney told mine they would sue if I posted.

2 & 3) As stated in my story, Sharif initially told me he would do nothing. Then he said we could compromise (50/50), and then he said he would get back with me...which he didn't. Sam got an estimate from Infiniti on replacing the harness, and they charge more hours than Sam is...it is a much bigger job than what Sharif is claiming. As most would know who have worked on cars, homes, anything, fixing the mess of someone else is almost always more work than starting from scratch. Not only that, the estimate is to fix EVERYTHING on my list (knocking noise, EVC controller install, hooking up the EVC and Knock Amp properly, literally everything on that list except for the body damage. He just didn't want to have to itemize everything out on that estimate. I think the labor is very fair, especially considering how much time he already has in it just taking the stuff apart.

4) Why have their been some backyard mechanics that were able to put these kits on without any problems? Also, why if they didn't fit, wouldn't Forged ask for new ones from GTM??? I would certainly have wanted that over bashed in pipes.

5) I complained of exhaust smell while their and on the drive home. Instead of being told this was normal, you would think Sharif would have wanted to check it out before sending me on an 8 hour drive in the car. Not only that, both sides were leaking...I could move the wastegate and dump tube back and forth by hand on the driver's side.

6) Like I said, my attorney and I had these POs a long time ago. What was going on in the 3 days it took to get the pictures of Dave's turbos....the engine was just sitting on the shop floor. Also, as stated in my story, Sharif emailed me in December saying "He had seen them with his own eyes" when referring to my turbos. Now that lawyers are involved....he was assuming. I have the email from his as proof of his statement.

7) Again, as already stated....when I contacted him with my estimate from an Infiniti dealer, he told me to get other ones because he didn't like the price.

8) How many times are we going to hear that?

9) Whatever....I feel I was the most patient client ever..from the original install (which Sharif told me all the time)....to waiting on some sort of resolution. Sharif certainly wasn't making any efforts the past few months....not until being contacted by my attorney. And why is it Sharif feels the need to point out he will be fine financially....it seems like that is all he cares about.
dpjones is offline  


Quick Reply: Forged Performance - My Experience



All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:45 AM.