Rochester

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4DRZ

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I believe the ATS-V is $37,900-ish which is pretty good for the mileage/yr. If I have time, I might take a drive late this week just because I have never driven one. However, after seeing those M3's, I think I am leaning pretty hard toward one of those. And to think that BMW will be bringing out an all new M3 soon...

I like the wheels on the Competition package too. In person, the wheels on the M3 CS were pretty awesome. It was odd that they were 19" in front and 20" in back. I think the Competition Package has 20" front & rear.

The M2 looks "ok" on its own, but next to an M3 the proportions just don't look quite right. The M3 looks a lot more organic. I know this is all subjective, but that's what my eyes see.

RMB5190

iTrader: (2)

The most appealing thing about the ATS: manual transmission can take a beating, simple bolt-ons and a tune puts you at 600+whp and everyone raves about how well that car handles. The negatives I've come across is the exhaust note is awful unless you have the right exhaust set-up and the interface is God awful. It's on my radar as a replacement for the G in the next couple of years.

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

Those are exactly the same things I heard about the ATS-V. The M3 is just as easy to tune and definitely easier on the eyes inside and out, but they are $10-$15k more on the used market. This makes the ATS-V a serious performance bargain on the used car market. I bet that will only continue now that the ATS-V sedan is no longer made. They are just so few and far between. I am hoping the inventory picks up this year with lease returns in 2019 that were leased in 2016.

With how easy the ATS-V is to tune and how many people work on GM cars (Camaro & Corvette) I figured the ATS-V would have a big following for tuning forums online. However, there are hardly any forums at all. I find that really strange.

I wonder if the M3 will take a noticeable dive in value once the next generation comes out. It already seems like a pretty good deal off of msrp compared to an M2.

RMB5190

iTrader: (2)

The price difference is the biggest appeal IMO. The ATS V is a bit unknown with the CTS V stealing the spotlight when performance is discussed. Bit of 'bro' science here but 4-5k will put the ATS V in CTS V country for <42k total? Heck of a tempting option. The M tax is a deterrent for me when it comes to owning one; and the fact every single modification is going to have that tax slapped on it as well.

My take on the lack of forums/info: The ATS V was 80k brand new and is lingering in the 30-40k range right now used? IMO, the car is just too expensive for the majority of the crowd that takes the plunge into vehicle modification. I imagine the same could be said for the G and this forum when the 3.7 was released? Every year produced more and more guys willing to push the envelope wrenching on the car and that's when the forum started to grow? An example, the 7AT owners just got a walk-through in 2015 as to how to service their own transmission fluid.

My only concern with that hopeful theory is the exclusiveness of the LF4 to the ATS V (correct me if I'm wrong). At least as a G37 owner, you could look through the 370z forum for info. If the ATS V never gains a following then you're kinda SOL from a tuning aspect.

Rochester

iTrader: (8)

If you take a bird's eye view to this discussion, you will eventually cross the streams between aesthetics and performance.

Not to get too Ghostbustery , but it's a line that seems to concern performance purists more than the other.

For example, I do not want to own a Mustang GT, yet I do want to own a Mustang Bullitt.

Lego_Maniac

iTrader: (3)

That blue M3

You should take this opportunity to take the ATS-V out for a test drive, they rarely pop up. At this point, you've probably got the 'on paper' analysis pretty much complete, sitting in, and driving it could reveal some horrific design fault or something you can't live with. Or, it could cement it as the next car.

My research into the ATS-V showed a real lack of an online/modding community, which for me, was a mark against it, as I like to research and plan out mods and engage in the community, despite a similar price, the M3 community seemed much more active. If the extra price difference is manageable, I'd probably lean M3, despite the somewhat negative stigma of BMW. I've seen one ATS-V sedan, and a handful of coupes, where I see M3s daily, which could be good or bad. Outside of a small corner of the internet, I doubt many people know what an ATS-V is, whereas the M badge has a lot more history. Don't forget to see which car better fits rear facing infant seats and strollers

Why is that? They are 97% the same car, minus some visual modifications and suspension tuning, the latter of which would be easily addressed in the aftermarket. Oddly, I feel the same way, and have a 'meh' feeling to the Mustang GT, yet the Bullitt seams 'special' in comparison.

Rochester

iTrader: (8)

Something that's unique because it's understated, there's a lot of appeal for me there. I think it's a familiar motivation to finding a 6MT G-Sedan years ago.

You're right that you can configure a GT with similar options, then modify the looks and the intake manifold. You know, the Bullit gets 15 hp over the GT, but with a drive-train putting out those numbers, 15 hp doesn't mean a whole lot. And I suspect it's all top-end. Torque numbers are the same. Here's a good run-down from AutoBlog:

http://www.autoblog.com/2018/01/17/f...vs-mustang-gt/

Not at all interested in the GT350, although I'd volunteer in a heartbeat for a test-drive.

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

I am with you on the value proposition of the ATS-V. I might be able to overlook the lack of interior/exterior styling/quality of the car compared to the M3 if the pricing gap is considerable. The only problem with the car is finding one in the right color with the right equipment. I have been looking on and off for at least 6 months and still have yet to find even ONE that is close to ideal.

The lack of forums on the ATS-V kind of sucks, but the latest gen M3 suffers from a similar fate- not many people are turning wrenches on them yet (and there are a lot more of them on the market compared to the ATS-V). Fortunately, they both have a number of good tuning shops available- the ATS-V probably even more options than the M3. Surprisingly, cost of a good tune for either car and most mods is fairly similar. This new M3 is not crazy expensive to tune like the last generation with the V8 where you spent $3,000 on an exhaust to gain 6 hp!?!

If I can get out of work early today I am going to try to drive the local ATS-V. It is supposed to get up to just over 40 degrees today so the tires should not be absolute bricks yet, but I noticed it has Michelin Super Sport tires on the front and the new version that replaced them on the back, I think the 4S? I wonder if I can tell any difference.

Rochester

iTrader: (8)

Oh hey, that's exciting. Whip out your phone and take some pics while there.

AFAIK, 40°F is right along the edge of safe temps for summer-only compound. Be careful.

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

I took more pics of all the cars on Sunday. Here are some more of the ATS-V when it was locked up. Trust me, I'll be careful on cold tires. It is comical in my car now with the snow tires because if you floor it in any of the first 5 gears the traction light flashes and the power gets cut. This is happening on my 91 octane map (less power than the 93 map) so it has to be due to the rear gears.

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

So I took a very long "lunch" today and spent quite a bit of time going over and driving the ATS-V sedan 6spd. I have to say I was pleasantly surprised. No big complaints with the car. Overall it is quite a bit faster than my car, much quieter, and definitely a bit smoother riding.

Seats: These surprised me the most. They are very comfortable, easy to get in and out, and also have 3 heat settings. They should stay relatively cool in the summer with suede inserts and perforations. Both driver and passenger seat have power adjustments for lumbar as well as changing how tight the upper and lower side bolsters get. You can make the upper bolsters quite a bit tighter than our oem seats (maybe even tighter than my Sparco, but the lowers are not quite as tight. (Then again, I did have the bottom seat cushion tipped up so that may affect it a bit.)


Styling: The car looks much better in person than in pics. Still not quite as stunning on the outside and the materials inside are not as high quality as the M3, but still good (The optional alcantara steering wheel and shifter would have helped. It is definitely a sleeper for those who don't know what it is, but it has all the nice touches for enthusiasts to notice like big gaping grilles up front, hood vents, big brakes, wide tires, lowered stance, quad tips, front splitter, rear diffuser etc. The suede on the seats and doors looked nice and the "carbon fiber" looked decent. The "leather" on the tops of the door sills looked a bit cheap. It does have doubled paned glass on the front windows for sound deadening.



Engine: This thing definitely has a lot of power and torque, but it is deceptively quick as it is way too quiet for me- even in Sport or Track mode. I actually had to roll the windows down to tell the difference initially because I am so used to listening to my uncorked exhaust (maybe also because the front windows are dual pane. Eventually I could tell a difference in sound between the modes and it would be noticeable in the summer with the windows down. I also think the engine has a lot of potential and would be unbelievably quick with a good tune. The engine is also almost completely behind the front struts (further than our cars) to help with the front to rear weight balance. They also threw the battery in the trunk to help with weight balance.


Transmission: Felt like it was made from granite and bulletproof. Shifts were nice and short and direct and the clutch felt great. The complete opposite of our cars stock. At the beginning I did notice the top of my foot catch some piece of trim when I floored the gas. I re-adjusted my foot and did not really notice it the rest of the drive.

Handling/Ride: This was a noticeable difference from my car and it should be as I am on coilovers. This car rode great on every road and did not seem to change ride comfort at all in any of the different modes (Touring, Sport, Track, Snow). I guess the magnetic shocks are able to adjust so quickly on any road that they are constantly changing and do not need to resort to a rough ride to corner well.

Tires: This car had Michelin Pilot SuperSports in front and the new Pilot 4S in back. It reminded me of my E46 M3 as they slide rather easily, but these were a bit easier to catch. Definitely room for improvement here once they wear out to replace them with stickier rubber.

Instrumentation/Tech: The gauges and CUE system get the only real complaints I hear from other people, but I struggled to find anything wrong with them. The tach. and speedo were a bit plain, but the small computer screen in the center allows you to choose from lots of different data displayed in 3 different boxes. I put the digital speedo in the center, boost on the left, and oil temp on the right. It even showed front sonar when parking. Very nice for avoiding curbs when parking. The car also has rear sonar, a big back up camera, onstar, pandora, and memory seats. I wish it had the heads up display, Performance Data Recorder, and HID headlights. It has auto down on all windows, but not auto up on the rears. (I forgot to check if they just needed to be reset and if I could roll them down via the remote DOH!)

The CUE system worked well and was pretty easy to use. It even has Apple Car Play, Android Auto, and wireless charging- pretty impressive for a 2016. The wireless charging is accessed by the climate controls flipping upward. Cool until the motorized door stops working. There is a rubber mat inside to hold the phone, but it was too small for my Samsung S8. I think I could pull it out and get a smaller sticky pad to make it work.





Bose: It sounded pretty good and clear, but you can tell that the subwoofers in the front doors are definitely not as large as ours. It was lacking a touch on the low end.

Practicality: I felt like I had more headroom than our cars up front and more legroom in the back. The rear legroom surprised me as that is another common gripe. The trunk had lots of space in back too and would have been even better with the optional fold down rear seat. The battery is also located in back so they were serious about trying for a 50/50 weight balance, but it is on the driver's side so they were not too concerned about side-to-side weight.

Rochester

iTrader: (8)

Lego_Maniac

iTrader: (3)

NIce write up! It largely echos what most of the car magazines have said, although I think they might be overly critical of the gauges and infotainment interface, probably because they drive so many cars. But our basis is also in 2008 technology, so 2016 is definitely a step up in most regards.

Have you driven a current gen M3?

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

That's a good question as I get that tacky/cheap hard plastic feeling in most domestic vehicles. I really did not get that feeling overall in the ATS-V. The only exception would be the cheap looking "leather" on the tops of the doors that looks like vinyl and the gauges look cheap. In their defense, I like the 3 screen computer below the gauges that allow me to see actual temps of critical items for track days (much less tacky than having to stick my phone to my windshield in my car to get the same gauges) and they will be even better with the heads up display and performance data recorder. The suede on the doors looks nice and the "carbon fiber" (not sure it is real) looks decent. Going back over the pictures I see the same cheap vinyl looking "leather" is also on the dash and center console, but it is not nearly as noticeable as the tops of the doors. Again, these are very minor criticisms.

The exterior styling is very clean and muscular without being over the top in person. In pictures the exterior styling looks odd and disjointed to me. However, it is not quite as stunning as the M3, but it is still very good. On the inside I think the dash, gauges, nav screen, and especially the carbon fiber inside the M3 is a significant step up. However, the Recaro seats in the ATS-V are a big step up from the M3 seats. I also think the visibility in the M3 is slightly better, but it has been a while since I sat in one.

Those magazines are right about the gauges looking a bit plain and the CUE system might be ever so slightly slower to use until you get accustomed to the touch screen buttons for everything, but those are very minor complaints in an otherwise exceptional car. They also fail to mention how nice it is to be able to pick 3 display screens right in the dash for very important data that can be customized. I have not seen any write ups or even pictures of the heads up display and performance data recorder, but I imagine those would be pretty cool to have too.

I have not driven a new M3 yet as my BMW store gets lots of M3's, but almost exclusively with the DCT. If any of our stores ever gets a used manual I will be sure to check it out.