View Poll Results: What did YOU choose?
6MT
140
53.64%
5AT
121
46.36%
Voters: 261. You may not vote on this poll
6MT or 5AT
09-12-2007, 05:27 PM
#121
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Although you said that everyone who has an auto and used to have a 6MT now wants an auto - I've seen quite the opposite. Most people I know drive autos and once they switch to manual they never look back. That's the case for me!
I love having that extra control, performing all the maneuvers that you can do in manual which are more fun than auto.... heel-toe, trail-braking, launches, chirping inbetween gears, etc... And the paddle shifters/auto is not as good as a ferrari... you can't compare semi automatic and sequential manuals to the auto box in the G37 - Downshifts are not crisp, and upshifting at WOT takes wayyyyyyyyyy too much time - you have to predict it by like 0.5 seconds. This is not a high performance automatic transmission, and shouldn't be referred to as such.
That said the manual in the G37 isn't perfect. But if it suits your lifestyle, go for it. You can never perfect driving a manual, and there are always new techniques to learn and practice which you can integrate into your daily drive for a little added excitement. I wouldn't worry about talking on the phone - as long as you get the bluetooth with the premium the manual should be fine!
Long story short, to me the manual is worth it. If nothing else, it's at least worth the drive to try it out. That extra gear and the added control are more than worth it to me. Plus if you are upgrading to the sport package, the manual is cheaper. Either way you go, I'm sure you'll be super happy with this amazing car!
09-12-2007, 05:30 PM
#122
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I think you'll be missing out if you skip the 6MT.
Although you said that everyone who has an auto and used to have a 6MT now wants an auto - I've seen quite the opposite. Most people I know drive autos and once they switch to manual they never look back. That's the case for me!
I love having that extra control, performing all the maneuvers that you can do in manual which are more fun than auto.... heel-toe, trail-braking, launches, chirping inbetween gears, etc... And the paddle shifters/auto is not as good as a ferrari... you can't compare semi automatic and sequential manuals to the auto box in the G37 - Downshifts are not crisp, and upshifting at WOT takes wayyyyyyyyyy too much time - you have to predict it by like 0.5 seconds. This is not a high performance automatic transmission, and shouldn't be referred to as such.
That said the manual in the G37 isn't perfect. But if it suits your lifestyle, go for it. You can never perfect driving a manual, and there are always new techniques to learn and practice which you can integrate into your daily drive for a little added excitement. I wouldn't worry about talking on the phone - as long as you get the bluetooth with the premium the manual should be fine!
Long story short, to me the manual is worth it. If nothing else, it's at least worth the drive to try it out. That extra gear and the added control are more than worth it to me. Plus if you are upgrading to the sport package, the manual is cheaper. Either way you go, I'm sure you'll be super happy with this amazing car!
Although you said that everyone who has an auto and used to have a 6MT now wants an auto - I've seen quite the opposite. Most people I know drive autos and once they switch to manual they never look back. That's the case for me!
I love having that extra control, performing all the maneuvers that you can do in manual which are more fun than auto.... heel-toe, trail-braking, launches, chirping inbetween gears, etc... And the paddle shifters/auto is not as good as a ferrari... you can't compare semi automatic and sequential manuals to the auto box in the G37 - Downshifts are not crisp, and upshifting at WOT takes wayyyyyyyyyy too much time - you have to predict it by like 0.5 seconds. This is not a high performance automatic transmission, and shouldn't be referred to as such.
That said the manual in the G37 isn't perfect. But if it suits your lifestyle, go for it. You can never perfect driving a manual, and there are always new techniques to learn and practice which you can integrate into your daily drive for a little added excitement. I wouldn't worry about talking on the phone - as long as you get the bluetooth with the premium the manual should be fine!
Long story short, to me the manual is worth it. If nothing else, it's at least worth the drive to try it out. That extra gear and the added control are more than worth it to me. Plus if you are upgrading to the sport package, the manual is cheaper. Either way you go, I'm sure you'll be super happy with this amazing car!
09-12-2007, 06:23 PM
#123
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RBull, I agree with your comments.
It may have sounded contradictory as I didn’t elaborate on my thoughts well enough. Driving MT, at least from my perspective, brings a lot of joy at first(while you learn to drive an MT) as the car does exactly what you want it to do – you are in total control and in absolute charge, you are the boss, YEAH, so the fun factor goes up. You have all that horsepower under your submission, just waiting to take your orders. Isn’t that great? It also requires a lot of interaction with the car, so it keeps you busy and entertained. You are exploring the performance envelope of your car as you have to make your own decisions about gearing. It requires a conscientious effort.
After a while driving MT becomes natural, routine, and subconscious. You know what you can expect out of you car, you know exactly when to shift, so your curiosity level goes down, and driving doesn’t offer big surprises or require that much attention anymore, at least on the surface. Your brain resources become freed up to do other things, so you start thinking about your girlfriend and don’t remember how you got from 1st to 5th gear. You are still in charge though, so you don’t even think about giving up on your MT yet. It takes a while.
Nevertheless, driving, and shifting gears requires mental resources. An interesting trivia. In a psychology class I took in college, the professor said that there were studies which found out that while you are driving on the highway and seem relaxed your brain is subconsciously making on average 135 decisions per second about the traffic situation, controlling your car, and basically interpreting the big picture. It’s amazing isn’t it? And I used to wonder why I would get so tired and ready to fall asleep after say 8 hours on the highway apparently doing nothing, just sitting, following the road, and listening to music. Brainless job, right? Apparently, not so. Even minor subconscious decisions like shifting gears add up to total fatigue. So, when you get to the stage in your MT driving experience where your mind is off the driving and is occupied with something else, but your brain still does the shifting, you are not enjoying it anymore and at the same time it adds fatigue. 1-2 hours on the road every day add up to your 8-10 hour at work.
Let me describe it like this. Driving an MT is like delicious ice-cream. It’s delicious but it has a lot of calories. So you buy yourself a whole box, and start indulging yourself. At first it feels great, you are loving it and you don’t think about the calories, because the pleasure of eating it far outweighs the fact that your waistline is getting bigger. After you’ve had 20 ice-creams cones in a week, you don’t derive the same pleasure from eating it anymore, and instead you start worrying about those 2 notches on our belt. Does that sound familiar, can you relate? So in the case of MT, it took me 13 years to be exact, to get to that point, where the joy was not enough anymore to outweigh the extra effort. That’s when it became a nuisance and I’d rather have the AT do it for me. Like you said, in traffic situations it is “tiresome” even though it is a mechanical process on the surface. With AT you can still have a lot of fun when you want to, but you can also relax, on your way home from work. With MT, you can’t.
In a nut-shell, if you allow yourself one ice-cream a week you can enjoy it for a long time, but if you eat ice-cream everyday you get sick of it and fat on top of that. So it depends on how much driving you do, under what conditions, and how long you’ve been doing it.
Ice-cream is good, don’t get me wrong, but I’ve personally had enough if you know what I mean
That’s just my experience of driving MT for 13 years.
It may have sounded contradictory as I didn’t elaborate on my thoughts well enough. Driving MT, at least from my perspective, brings a lot of joy at first(while you learn to drive an MT) as the car does exactly what you want it to do – you are in total control and in absolute charge, you are the boss, YEAH, so the fun factor goes up. You have all that horsepower under your submission, just waiting to take your orders. Isn’t that great? It also requires a lot of interaction with the car, so it keeps you busy and entertained. You are exploring the performance envelope of your car as you have to make your own decisions about gearing. It requires a conscientious effort.
After a while driving MT becomes natural, routine, and subconscious. You know what you can expect out of you car, you know exactly when to shift, so your curiosity level goes down, and driving doesn’t offer big surprises or require that much attention anymore, at least on the surface. Your brain resources become freed up to do other things, so you start thinking about your girlfriend and don’t remember how you got from 1st to 5th gear. You are still in charge though, so you don’t even think about giving up on your MT yet. It takes a while.
Nevertheless, driving, and shifting gears requires mental resources. An interesting trivia. In a psychology class I took in college, the professor said that there were studies which found out that while you are driving on the highway and seem relaxed your brain is subconsciously making on average 135 decisions per second about the traffic situation, controlling your car, and basically interpreting the big picture. It’s amazing isn’t it? And I used to wonder why I would get so tired and ready to fall asleep after say 8 hours on the highway apparently doing nothing, just sitting, following the road, and listening to music. Brainless job, right? Apparently, not so. Even minor subconscious decisions like shifting gears add up to total fatigue. So, when you get to the stage in your MT driving experience where your mind is off the driving and is occupied with something else, but your brain still does the shifting, you are not enjoying it anymore and at the same time it adds fatigue. 1-2 hours on the road every day add up to your 8-10 hour at work.
Let me describe it like this. Driving an MT is like delicious ice-cream. It’s delicious but it has a lot of calories. So you buy yourself a whole box, and start indulging yourself. At first it feels great, you are loving it and you don’t think about the calories, because the pleasure of eating it far outweighs the fact that your waistline is getting bigger. After you’ve had 20 ice-creams cones in a week, you don’t derive the same pleasure from eating it anymore, and instead you start worrying about those 2 notches on our belt. Does that sound familiar, can you relate? So in the case of MT, it took me 13 years to be exact, to get to that point, where the joy was not enough anymore to outweigh the extra effort. That’s when it became a nuisance and I’d rather have the AT do it for me. Like you said, in traffic situations it is “tiresome” even though it is a mechanical process on the surface. With AT you can still have a lot of fun when you want to, but you can also relax, on your way home from work. With MT, you can’t.
In a nut-shell, if you allow yourself one ice-cream a week you can enjoy it for a long time, but if you eat ice-cream everyday you get sick of it and fat on top of that. So it depends on how much driving you do, under what conditions, and how long you’ve been doing it.
Ice-cream is good, don’t get me wrong, but I’ve personally had enough if you know what I mean
That’s just my experience of driving MT for 13 years.For you an MT has lost its appeal but to suggest it definitely will for others isn't correct. You seem to be implying that will happen to everyone which it won't.
For example people relax in a different ways. For me jumping in my car at the end of a day and running through the gears is a very relaxing experience. It uses your brain slightly more than driving an auto sure but so does changing the radio station or talking to a passenger. Reading a book also uses your brain more than just sitting there thoughtless too but is a relaxing experience for many. I am also someone that relaxes by going out for a 15 mile run at the end of work day too.
Using another ice cream analogy driving an AT is like eating vanilla ice cream every day. It tastes good but it is pretty plain and made to appeal to the palette of a large segment of the population, and suits a lot of occasions as well. Driving an MT however is like choosing from a basket of flavours each time you drive it. It takes some extra decisions and time to select the type you want that day and you may not like every flavour but it provides more variety, taste and interest when you drive.
The number of sub conscious decisions a human has to make while driving isn't any surprise to me. In my case I've never seen it as a mindless experience. Many accidents are a result of people getting into a relaxed mindless type of state and I work to avoid it at all cost including participating in DE courses. If you have driven at a track you know how mentally fatiguing even a 30 minute lapping session can be.
You are still in charge though, so you don’t even think about giving up on your MT yet. It takes a while.
So, when you get to the stage in your MT driving experience where your mind is off the driving and is occupied with something else, but your brain still does the shifting, you are not enjoying it anymore and at the same time it adds fatigue.
Cheers and enjoy your AT
Last edited by RBull; 09-12-2007 at 07:43 PM.
09-12-2007, 07:23 PM
#126
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Say you are in 1st gear at full throttle, you have a “ton” of torque at the wheels, then you hit the clutch while you come off the throttle and all of a sudden there is zero torque at the wheels for a short moment, then you shift to 2nd and all of a sudden there is a lot of torque again, and because even the best MT driver cannot match shifting revs as smoothly as a computer does, you experience yet another jolt because of RPM synchronization. Take a passenger and look at their head (yours does the same for that matter you hit the gas and their heads are pinned to the seat rests, a couple of seconds later you hit the clutch and their heads are about to hit the windshield, then again pulled back to their seats, while experiencing a rev matching jolt.
you hit the gas and their heads are pinned to the seat rests, a couple of seconds later you hit the clutch and their heads are about to hit the windshield, then again pulled back to their seats, while experiencing a rev matching jolt.First, jerks and jolts are the driver's fault. If I am trying to drive smooth (which I am , most of the time), my shifts are more seamless than an automatic and don't "free spin" between the gears, unlike the automatic.
Second, the jolts at redline shifts are also the driver's fault. If you go from 100% torque in 1st to 100% torque in 2nd, the gap in the middle is very noticeable. By contrast, your automatic is blending the revs between the shifts. It is not "matching the revs", it is letting the drivetrain slip to pick up the slack so you are more comfortable. If you had a broken clutch that slipped a little bit under top stress, you'd have a similar feel. If you want to do that in your manual, you can, but it sort of defeats the purpose. So, while your manual will go from 100% to 0% to 100% in a short time, causing a "jerk", your automatic will fade slowly from 100% to 90% and then fade back up to 100%. This is a loss of efficiency if you are trying to get there "as fast as possible." If you are not trying to get there as fast possible, perform a slower shift in your manual, catching 2nd as the revs fall between the gears. This will match the performance of the auto and also the smoothness.
09-12-2007, 07:28 PM
#127
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Another thing I loved about the AT was the 3rd gear. It’s got plenty of torque and it’s long too. It’s especially good at highway traffic speeds. Around NY, most cars in the left lanes do 75-90, and the right lane around 65. Say you want to overtake a car doing 65. You are in 5th at 2300 rpm, you hit the gas and it shifts nicely and smoothly to 3rd at 4000 rpm. Acceleration is very quick and it doesn’t feel like you are abusing your car. You are at 5,300 rpms at 85 mph. Beautiful. 3rd gear feels powerful from low speed and it goes all the way up to 106 mph. I love it.
He's right tho, the auto is smoother if you are driving "flat out" in it compared to flat-out in the manual. That's more a reflection of "flat out" in the auto not being as aggressive as you would be in the manual than any sort of superiority of the auto...
09-12-2007, 07:49 PM
#129
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6MT will have higher resale (at least private) since they tend to be more rare. For dealer trade-in though, 5AT may have higher resale since they are easier to sell.
09-12-2007, 07:56 PM
#130
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Originally Posted by stoian21 View Post
Say you are in 1st gear at full throttle, you have a “ton” of torque at the wheels, then you hit the clutch while you come off the throttle and all of a sudden there is zero torque at the wheels for a short moment, then you shift to 2nd and all of a sudden there is a lot of torque again, and because even the best MT driver cannot match shifting revs as smoothly as a computer does, you experience yet another jolt because of RPM synchronization. Take a passenger and look at their head (yours does the same for that matter you hit the gas and their heads are pinned to the seat rests, a couple of seconds later you hit the clutch and their heads are about to hit the windshield, then again pulled back to their seats, while experiencing a rev matching jolt.
Say you are in 1st gear at full throttle, you have a “ton” of torque at the wheels, then you hit the clutch while you come off the throttle and all of a sudden there is zero torque at the wheels for a short moment, then you shift to 2nd and all of a sudden there is a lot of torque again, and because even the best MT driver cannot match shifting revs as smoothly as a computer does, you experience yet another jolt because of RPM synchronization. Take a passenger and look at their head (yours does the same for that matter you hit the gas and their heads are pinned to the seat rests, a couple of seconds later you hit the clutch and their heads are about to hit the windshield, then again pulled back to their seats, while experiencing a rev matching jolt.
An AT has the same "no torque" situation as an MT other than the standard will normally take longer to shift. It tends to be more abrupt because of the direct mechanical connection versus fluid and computer intervention in the AT to smooth rpms and the shift at partial throttle openings.
09-12-2007, 10:51 PM
#131
My story is a little different...
I bought a 6MT because I rather have control of my car at all times. I have been driving AUTO slush-box all my life and forced myself to buy a 6mt this time. For some reason a coupe + 330hp = 6MT for me. To me it's like buying a porsche and asking for an auto. I couldn't do the auto tranny anymore and I drive in Washington DC traffic. No big deal for me. Plus I rather have a 6spd manual than an 5spd auto.
I bought a 6MT because I rather have control of my car at all times. I have been driving AUTO slush-box all my life and forced myself to buy a 6mt this time. For some reason a coupe + 330hp = 6MT for me. To me it's like buying a porsche and asking for an auto. I couldn't do the auto tranny anymore and I drive in Washington DC traffic. No big deal for me. Plus I rather have a 6spd manual than an 5spd auto.
09-12-2007, 11:38 PM
#132
My story is a little different...
I bought a 6MT because I rather have control of my car at all times. I have been driving AUTO slush-box all my life and forced myself to buy a 6mt this time. For some reason a coupe + 330hp = 6MT for me. To me it's like buying a porsche and asking for an auto. I couldn't do the auto tranny anymore and I drive in Washington DC traffic. No big deal for me. Plus I rather have a 6spd manual than an 5spd auto.
I bought a 6MT because I rather have control of my car at all times. I have been driving AUTO slush-box all my life and forced myself to buy a 6mt this time. For some reason a coupe + 330hp = 6MT for me. To me it's like buying a porsche and asking for an auto. I couldn't do the auto tranny anymore and I drive in Washington DC traffic. No big deal for me. Plus I rather have a 6spd manual than an 5spd auto.
so lambo's arn't sports car???
09-12-2007, 11:41 PM
#133
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Opinion: If you have to think about whether you want a manual or Auto, then just buy the auto. I know for myself that I don't even consider buying an automatic on any car (and, yes, I've driven manuals for a long time and have only grown to love them even more). I could care less about traffic or anything else - an auto is a non-starter for me. To me, cars are not about getting from point A to B, it's much more than that. Even though shifting does become automatic after driving for awhile, it is still there WHEN I want to have fun. If you buy the auto then your stuck with the auto 100% of the time (please don't tell me how great paddles are). Of course, it is a personal choice and only the person who has to drive the car can decide for themselves.
What I can't believe is how many people are buying automatics with this car. I mean overall I am sure Infiniti selles many more automatics than 6mts, but i figured on an enthusiasts website, the mix would be closer to 70/30 6mt to automatic.
What I can't believe is how many people are buying automatics with this car. I mean overall I am sure Infiniti selles many more automatics than 6mts, but i figured on an enthusiasts website, the mix would be closer to 70/30 6mt to automatic.
09-12-2007, 11:47 PM
#134
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Well, it is sad to say but many people who can afford to buy Lambos, Ferraris, and Porsches are probably older folk who do not have the same "enthusiasm" as the younger crowd. I do not doubt that driven properly, Ferraris with paddles can get around a road course faster than a Ferrari with a manual transmission. But I could care less. It would never be as engaging to me as driving a manual. If I had the means to buy a Ferrari and I couldn't get a true manual transmission, I'd buy another car that where I could (Porsche, Lamborghini, etc.).
09-12-2007, 11:51 PM
#135
One more -- 3rd gear is where my 6MT annihilates the 5ATs... the few times I've had a run in with one. All is well until we hit 3rd gear, then it's "see you at the finish line."
He's right tho, the auto is smoother if you are driving "flat out" in it compared to flat-out in the manual. That's more a reflection of "flat out" in the auto not being as aggressive as you would be in the manual than any sort of superiority of the auto...
He's right tho, the auto is smoother if you are driving "flat out" in it compared to flat-out in the manual. That's more a reflection of "flat out" in the auto not being as aggressive as you would be in the manual than any sort of superiority of the auto...
With the newer models (08) the hp is the same and the auto tranny is geared along with the upgraded torque converter to accelerate with the MT.
Go look at the numbers. In one comparison the AT actually pulls a higher trap speed (every so slightly) If I rememebr correctly at that speed, you are in 3rd gear.
With that in mind the biggest difference in the newer models will be preference and feel. There is no doubt a more direct feel in the newer model for the 6MT. However many people like to say that the AT is not like the Ferrarri's etc blah blah... The bottom line is what numbers does it produce. It is apparent that ther eis no performance drop in acceleration of the AT. It is apparent that drivetrainloss is not a factor as well on these cars (only 2HP difference at peak on the Sedan dyno).
So the deciding factor for many will be whether or not you want to have a clutch. Once you learn the behavior of your car, you will figure ot when to give shift input based on speed of the vehicle inorder to get it to do what you want. The same goes for a 6MT- all those who have not driven one will have to learn it's characteristics to get it to perform it's best.
One thing is for sure, if I woke up in the morning and was told that the only G37s left were 6MTs and I had to get one- I wouldn't be sad- even though I prefer the 5AT on this car. Like everyone has stated both are great machines and it nly matters to the individual who is driving how great it really is to them.