Respectfully, I disagree with your assessment. For three very simple reasons:
1. With the 335i, it took boost just to get up to a par or very slightly ahead of the NA G37.
2. The cost differential of the cars, if re-invested in the G37, will deliver a dramatically faster and better performing car.
3. The efforts to increase power potential on the 335i are going to exacerbate an already revealed challenge to the 335i, which is thermal management, that has yet to be definitively resolved. Bolting on an oil cooler ain't gonna do it. And if you tweak up the power, you bring the deficiency in thermal management down on your head much more quickly and dramatically.

I am going to borrow, and edit from, another post made on a different forum:

I have two bimmers and love the marque. The seamless refinement of the straight six they have developed is justifiably the object of great praise. And the handling package is remarkable as well. You almost cannot believe how fast you are going with the elegance to the weight transfer in the BMW.

But the car I bought to use as a platform for performance was the G35, and there were a number of reasons. One of them is that the V6 configuration, though it is going to be "rougher" than an inline, is the ability to pile on the hp and torque if you want to. And to mod up the suspension and other features to turn it into a "super" car for a very affordable price.

"head to head" from the dealer lot the limited edition 335i bimmer is a slightly better performer. The operative word here is "slightly". But the platform is stressed out/maxed out to do it. The G37 is barely getting started, and for many thousands less.

And the engine is only the first part of that consideration. The bimmer had to get boosted to achieve what it did. Throw a low boost TT on the G37, and a couple of handling mods and you will be 100hp higher than the bimmer, at about the same cost. It will be a "beast" car though, and most people don't really want that.

NA power is the best, most reliable power, for a street car and for many track cars. Having run supercharged and turbocharged cars for years, and being a big fan of forced induction, there still has to be an acknowledgement that FI increases wear, maintenance, periodic problems etc. It just does. With more power like that you get more heat and stress.
Is it worth it? For those who love and use the additional performance, take the time to educate themselves about FI and to invest the effort and attention and money to religiously maintaining the car, a boosted motor is a joy like no other. Breathtaking power and performance increases over the nonboosted base motor.

And there is a key point. The base powerplant is no comparison to the G37 at this time. Boosting the motor was the only way to keep comparability of the stock block. Come back in 80,000 miles and see what is happening with these cars. Yes, for an auto test shoot out of two new releases there is comparability, but there are going to be a lot of G37's purring along (as well as a V motor purrs....maybe "growls" or "rumbles" is a better choice of description) at 100,000 and even 200,000 miles, while in my estimation the boosted bimmer motors are going to be falling by the wayside long long long before then. I may be wrong, only time will tell.

Again, I start and finish this comment with the acknowledgement that I own and love to drive both the bimmer and the G. For myself, I did not have to choose one over the other, and that is a treat. But if I did have to choose between these two cars, and this is just my choice and not that of others necessarily, the powerplant component comes down squarely on the side of the G37. The base handling and sophistication goes to the bimmer. Not by a lot, because the slalom of the G is better, it is just a touch more aggressive and bold (and it is addressable). The list of standard goodies and features and price elements go to the G37. The interior gets a bit more personal and I really liked the seats in the G37 and the bimmer. They are different but both outstanding. Some of the plastic etc really could be upgraded in the G for very modest cost and eliminate that deficit to the bimmer entirely and I am perplexed at why they did not do that, as it will cost sales no doubt.

But the clincher:The upgrade potential at modest costs goes to the G37. With a couple of tweaks to the suspension, handling, wheels-tires, a lighter weight single mass flywheel and clutch, and some breathing mods to the intake/exhaust that would goose up the torque another 15-20lbs/ft and close that torque gap........without impacting warranty or longevity issues....at a total cost of WAY LESS than the dealer to dealer price differential of the cars, and the contest becomes a "no contest" in my book.

My take on this iteration of the bimmer is that the engineers and marketing folks in Germany are looking at the evolution or direction that all these cars have taken and are stuck with a WTF are we gonna do? To which the answer had to be, the only thing we can do.....boost it. Or, if you don't like the rules, change the rules. This works short term. When the GTR comes out and you compare them, the interesting issue will be, is the performance gap from the bimmer to the GTR worth the price differential? And the bimmer, both 335i and M3, are going to be in a very difficult "sandwich" for marketing, pricing, and performance. (the push to a V-8 package in both the G and the 3 series is looming). The bimmer has been, is presently, and likely for a long time to come shall be a phenomenal driving machine and experience. And one to enjoy and treasure. But the dawning reality is that the VQ has a lot of future potential to tap into and that is frightening prospect for the bimmer. I would look to the future and expect that there will be something new, radical and amazing to come out of Germany in response. Indeed they have probably been working at it for some years now. And that is all good for us as consumers. (cont)

 

What does Infiniti need to do to make the G37 "put away" the 335i in an "enthusiast" model if such was their desire? (Or you if you just have to do it to be satisfied?). I would recommend consideration of the following.
1. Improve the cold air intake with something like the JimWolfTechnologies pop charger.
2. Improve the intake plenum with something like the Motordyne unit for better distribution of the intake charge.
3. Tweak the ECU chip
4. Go to a lighter weight and more free flowing catback exhaust unit.
5. Replace the clutch with a single mass unit of lighter weight, and a lighter flywheel, one that is between something like the present Nismo and the JWT....perhaps in the 18 to 20 pound range. The dual mass one in there is just a hippo. This would still be very comfortable on the street and in commuter traffic, though not as smooth as Mom's Buick.
6. Replace the piggy heavy stock wheel/rims with 18 inch wider and lightweight alloy rims and put 245mm tires on the front and 275mm tires in the back. Overall the weight savings would still be at least 3lbs per wheel. IF you have done this to another car, you know how significant such a change will be.
7. Fully adjustable coilover suspension as standard. Really focus the engineers on this one.
8. Firmer performance bushings throughout, especially on the front upper control arms.
9. And if you are a lad that does drive hard, put in a real LSD like the Quaife; and a mechanical clutch type if you are a "bad boy".

These changes would, if done OEM, cost very little over existing components, but the performance differential would be startling. Turn in would be crisper and more immediate, acceleration and braking would improve because of the lower unsprung weight and less inertial resistance in both the drivetrain and at the wheels. Lateral load transfer management would be smoother, tighter and more immediate. Turning and braking/accerating grip would be materially increased because of the larger contact patches of rubber on the pavement. The modest torque gap would be significantly closed between the boosted bimmer and the G37 coupe.

The very marginal differences in performance seen on some of the test categories between these cars on braking, acceleration etc would be eliminated if not in fact swing to the favor of the G. The feel of the car would be much more sporty, and not to the taste of everyone to be sure....and remember that this is a car for commuters too.......but for those that wanted more blast, and some bragging rights, this would probably be enough to do it. It may not be worth it to Infiniti to take such steps. But if they wanted to, it is easy as pie. And if they choose not to do so........you can and without a ton of money.

And if you want to boost it while making some of these handling changes, it becomes a blow away comparison. My G is putting out over 600rwhp and torque, runs all day on a track at 210F temp without any cooling issues at all, and routinely blows by Z0-6 Corvette and TT 996 Porsche cars. That does not make it better, not by any means. But it does illustrate that the car can be made to perform well.

Here it is at Reno-Fernley, and takes a nice Z06 on slicks and a 3 series:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5Tz4WZPjp0
Here it is at Buttonwillow, and takes a couple of Lotus cars, a spec racer, and another bimmer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY_kWIJPmaI
Here it is at Cal Speedway, and takes a couple of Ferrari, Porsche, Evo, and yes another bimmer:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qY_kWIJPmaI

You gotta love the base platform of a car that can deliver that out of a 215cid V-6 motor block!

I have a Setrab unit in my car, and it is a fine oi8l cooler assist. But it is not the answer by itself. Thermal management is a huge issue with turbos, and I do not believe with the kind of heat issues being reported for the 335i that an oil cooler, by itself, will be sufficient to manage the problem. Multiple assaults on the heat problem need to be launched.

Oil serves two primary purposes in the car, one of them is lubrication, and the other is heat exchange. If the heat becomes too great, the lubricating properties of the oil are lost and the engine "cooks". In motor speak this is a "bad" thing as it promotes walking home, the very thing a car is supposed to spare you from having to do.

By routing the oil from the engine to a heat exchanger, a mini radiator if you will, the heat transfers from the oil to the metal cooling fins of the exchanger which are released to the passing air. Nifty, but there is limited area in the front of the car and most of the available space is already occupied by the bigger brother, the radiator hosting the cycling of the water/coolant mix that is circulated around the block to evacuate heat.

Ducting and fans may induce more aggressive air flow across the cooler to imrove its relative efficiency, but other steps are likely to be needed. It is going to depend on how much heat gain is occasioned by being in boost, and how long it takes to return the system to an equilibrium or actually operating such that heat drops even while running.

Venting heat out from the engine compartment is an issue as well.

1. Address WHEN the cooling kicks in. Messing with the thermostat trigger temp (lowering it) may be a factor to get a jump on the problem.

2. Address WHAT is being cooled. This can be VOLUME, such as increasing oil and water capacities (their volume serves as a heat sink), and CONTENT, such as the chemical properties of the coolant/water mix.

3. Address HOW the system efficiencies can be improved, such as with bigger and more powerful fans, cycle rates for coolant, exchanger size and placement, ducting, thermal coatings (barriers and dispersant types), and more.

When the car goes into "limp" it is just a programmed response to when the car exceeds the capacity of the system set up to operate safely, it is intended to avoid "cooking" the motor. It is a "white flag" of surrender to the Heat Monster. If they are smacking the car to 300 degrees temps, after a few laps on a track..........an oil cooler just ain't gonna do it alone. It may take the cruising temps down from 240 to something more reasonable, but the rapid rise from spirited driving on the track where you are getting into the boost multiple times per lap, is going to overwhelm the recovery capability of the system when you are not in the boost. So how do you advertise that....kicks butt unless you have to really drive hard for more than a little while? Not good. Let us put this in perspective....if my G with its conservative tune of 530rwhp (about 600 crank hp or DOUBLE what the 335i puts out- I can go to over 700 rwhp) is hauling around Laguna Seca and Cal Speedway lap after lap and does not top 210 degrees..........they have some work to do. It can be done, but it is not easy and it is not cheap and they know darn well how to do it if they want to. We are talking about world class leading engineers and designers here. They did not do this because they did not want to, they were TOLD not to do it by the pencil pushers because it would rob profits from the realizeable price for the car. After all, how many people are going to push this car that hard? Like the SUV in Beverly Hills with AWD and traction control whose greatest challenge in five years of driving is the botts buttons it clambers over while changing lanes to the mall, where it will tackle the challenge of ascending three levels above grade in a parking garage circular ramp. Most people will never hit the limits of the car to trigger this problem. But some will, and so how much more performance to they put into the car, not to SOLVE the problem, but just put the tipping point far enough out to make it not an issue for a large enough percentage of the buying public? I personally think we are going to see a "patch", not a "fix". Unless they let the engineers put in what they know will work. Bolting on an oil cooler is not it. IF it was, they would have already done it and this never would have happened.!

If you want a more complete and stand alone evaluation of the stock G37 coupe from my performance driving perspective, that is in the new issue of Nissan Sport Magazine, which hits the stands this week.

 

Eagle1

all i can say is you know your ****!

It is good that you give your take on the VQ37 and the 335i engine! very informative!

 

This statement on their behalf was and is a load of ish. WTF do they think this car is, a Phantom? The car already weighs almost 4k lbs... and probably more if Infiniti threw in a more heavier interior components so people like ign can bitch and cry about the car weighing too much and cant accelerate for *****? Damn ign homo's.. They do video games anyways, the hell do they know?

 

The interior they were talking about was the G35's interior, not the G37s. Do people keep missing this?

 

Hmmm, I agree with the article - I'd take a G35 sedan over the G37 Coupe at this point in time.

 

The sedan is just an amazing car in the performance/value equation. My son rented one while his 528i was in the shop for some service/repairs, and I was very impressed with the improvements in design and materials. And the car was great to ride in (he did not let me drive it.....smart lad! But I had sent him to a couple of courses at Skip Barber, so he let me experience some more spirited testing, just from the passenger side this time.)

I think that the whole concept of a coupe, any coupe, has always been an intriguing and difficult one. More than a two seater sports car, less than a four door/seater sports sedan (itself a relatively newer concept occasioned by BMW more than any other marque). The sport coupe fits a niche, and only a niche, and is just not a solution for most of the market. But for those it does suit, there is just nothing like it, and almost nothing else will do.

I remember growing up when my dad had a number of different coupes, starting in the fifties and including such marques as Cadillac, Dodge, Ford Mustang, Mercedes Benz, Volvo, Ford Thunderbird, Alpha Romeo, and my first car, a Falcon Futura with the "three on the tree" non syncro first gear transmission (used with 120,000 miles and ten years of loving care before I got it). I have progressed through other coupes, including the P-1800 SS Volvo, the Porsche 944 Turbo, Honda Accord hatchback of the early '80's, Lincoln Mark VIII and several others. And a number of sedans like the Volvo 264GL, 5 series BMW, among others. Dad loved cars, was always buying and selling them, and was a fighter pilot so he knew something about machines and caring for them...not to mention having lightning fast reflexes and the ability to pilot a car more akin to "flying low" than "driving fast". And we had a few sports cars in there from time to time, including MG, Triumph, etc. He even had some goofy cars like the DeLorean and the replica Cord. (Hey, we all make mistakes when it comes to the purchase of cars!)

The back seat conundrum of a coupe is always a source of frustration, yet the lines and aesthetic appeal of the coupe over the sedan relatives almost (not always) superior. Performance of coupes was not always materially better than their sedan brothers/sisters on the motor side....weight was often equivalent because while a coupe lost the weight relative to the sedan with two fewer and heavy doors, it gained weight on chassis strengthening. It was usually the handling equation that made the difference, often a bit shorter on the wheelbase or wider on the track, or both, stiffer suspension, lower center of mass and lower ride height, better brakes, and not much else. They most definitely had a better driving feel, yet had that begrudging nod to "practicality" over the sport car.

I am always excited about a new coupe release in any model.....hoping against hope that somehow this time someone has figured out how to get it right. Yet often feeling like Mark Twain did about the spectacle of a dog walking on its hind legs, where the wonder of the display is not that it is done badly......but that it is attempted at all!

 

^^Great posts Eagle1, and superb driving. I need to get this G to some track days!

 

Eagle1, do you have any experience running NPG+ (evanscooling.com)?

Does your car have the rear coolant flow "pathfinder" modification?

I'm not doing much to my 700bb kit for cooling, but the above two are included in the build. Hopefully it will be enough. I will have full Innovate data logging with oil, coolant, and tranny temps constantly monitored so I will be keeping a close eye on it...

great post, btw, as usual

 

For the past 4 months i been reading through all the magazines, blogs, etc. I cant really see a difference between the two except price. the g37 handles better, the bmw is slighty quicker by .2 of second not much to talk about cosidering it use twin turbos. the interior of the g37 i consider to have the upper hand its functions are easy to use and looks and feels more welcoming. and of course the styling stands out more than any coupe you will find on the road. so I think I will have my cake and eat to. cosidering the G is $8,ooo less than the 335i. thats money left over for rims and some mods.

 

I do not have the NPG coolant or system mods to run it. It sounds very intriguing, but I really do not know much about it. Can you start another thread so we don't hijack this one, and maybe get some cooling fanatics pulled into the discourse to increase our collective knowledge? I am always interested in looking at cooling solutions. thanks for bringing this up.

 

I have driven the 07 335 and i can say the top end is very nice.... Although i could not see myself getting one, because i know i would love my G 35 coupe alot better and i know i would get a lot more looks in my coupe.... I do like the mechanical arm that gives u the seat belt....