ATLG37'09

The mid/high performance, fuel efficient, sports sedan/coupe market is very competitive. I think it will continue to be the growth segment for luxury automakers.

The G represents 39% of the Inifiniti total units sales (US) reported for 2012...I don't like the name change either, at worse they're creating some confusion, at best, they're getting some good buzz about the car.

Maybe they come down the road, but I would've liked some suspension/steering tweaks "more 335ish". I may be in the minority on this but I don't think the G really needs more power...I like the 2.0 turbo offering.

As it stands it will be the same underbody with new skin. The styling will obviously drive the sales, and the early looks so leave some questions. That could all change when it hits showrooms.

jwfisher

The G, er, Q does need more power, it's no longer competitive as it stands. As I've found out, thanks to the aftermarket (and I'd much prefer it to be OEM), the G is a whole 'nuther universe when you add 150 HP more. And it's entirely up to it.
Look at GM's new 3.6 liter DOHC V-6 - it's up to 354 horsepower in the 2014 Camaro and other platforms. Not the Camaro is a competitor or even a consideration, but it shows what can be done with this size engine while improving mileage even further. And that engine will be in the Cadillac ATX and CTX which do compete with the Q. And then there is their new 420 horse (430 torque!) V-6 newly introduced - and that's not even the performance model.
Technology marches on... and Infiniti didn't touch the engine for this new Q and did only very minor tuning of the existing 7-speed (which badly needed it). Not even Direct Injection, which Nissan has used in 1 variation of this family of V-6s in the past (JDM market only).
As for the 4 cylinder, I agree, and apparently there will be a variation of the Mercedes 2.5 liter 4 with supercharging. That's a competitive move... and it's possible that it will also end up as a base engine for the next Z.
But where are these new engines? Weren't they ready in time, or wasn't enough budget allocated? After seeing the G languish in the market for so long without a substantial update, I'd have to question what's going on inside Infiniti. Sure there is an economic downturn, but Lexus has all-new product and the Q is nothing more than a top-hat over the existing platform. Something is wrong.

bgoodman

iTrader: (1)

From someone I know who works for Nissan corporate, they will be releasing a new range of engines coming with the new coupe.

We last talked a coupe of months ago, but I remember him saying one engine will be a diesel, and another will be a DI version of the VQ engine. Not sure if what he was saying is true, but he does work for Nissan corporate, so time will tell.

chilibowl

New coupe is 2 years out, according to the president of Infiniti.

2 years for some new engines?

Thats far too late to the party, in this segment.

jwfisher

Sounds like history is repeating itself - first the G35 with the new platform, then the G37 (at the time of the coupe) with the new engines and transmissions.

When the president of Infiniti talked about the coupe, he meant 2 model years off. It's a 2015, introduced in the 2014 calendar year. Likely no sooner than summer a year form now, but as late as Nov/Dec 2014.

bgoodman

iTrader: (1)

There will be another engine as well. At the minimum 3, but probably 4 (including IPL engine). They will ultimately use a 4 cyl turbo as the base engine.

jwfisher

At this point it's an assumption that the IPL engine will be the twin-turbo 500+HP V-6. The announcement of that engine pointedly said "flagship" - which doesn't necessarily mean Q50. So the IPL might just be a warmed over 3.7 instead - again.
So, we have:
- base 4 cylinder - unnaturally aspirated.
- Diesel, maybe just for Europe first
- existing 3.7
- existing 3.5 with Hybrid (from the M, slight updates. This engine was first shown to the press in the G35, before M even existed).
- possible 3.7+ for IPL
- possible twin-turbo V-6

ATLG37'09

No longer competitive...I do think it was time for body style change and to some degrees specs...but I also think your post represent a small % of new G buyers...most new sales in the segment are 3 yr leases, and healthy % of female buyers.

The styling is main thing they need to get right with the Q...I do agree on the refinement...maybe they should delay the S version until some of the refinements you speak are ready to continue enticing the enthusiast.

fwiw I do think the caddie ATS is strong competition...that coupe is on my radar.

bgoodman

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to disagree with you there. The G37 is still competitive. BMW, Merc, and Cadillac are just now catching up with the Infiniti technological offerings.

Right now, MPG is the current race in the luxury market. So everyone is coming out with smaller turbo'ed engines to have higher MPG. That is Infiniti only issue at this time IMO. They will most likely offer a 4-cyl FI mill from the MB/Renault partnership, so that will be interesting but most likely it won't be a tuner friendly engine (as seen with the current C250 engine).

I'm optimistic they will match BMW again with the comparable sports coupe.

Oh yea... I am waiting for the ATS Coupe as well BUT...most likely will not roll out until late 2014 at the earliest (I work for GM corporate). The ATS sedan is a good start, but the first generation is normally the 'lets learn from out mistakes' period. I would wait until the ATS-V is released with the DCT (hint hint).

jwfisher

I recently put a couple of hundred miles on a 3.6 ATS. It shows some promise, great engine, but poor execution in the ergonomics and lousy seats. And the especially godawful Que. It was simply unusable, counterintuitive and outright dangerous to use while driving. I had some hopes for the ATS (for the sake of the industry, not that I'd want to drive something with such a huge grill and pretense), but right now it's a fail. And the 2 liter turbo engine isn't looking so goo din long term magazine tests.

bgoodman

iTrader: (1)

Yea, I agree with you there. Definitely shows promise, but still shows it has a little ways to go. Did you drive the base or the sport? The sport has much better seats.

The CUE is currently being 'fixed' as they like to call it. It has promise. The 2nd gen CUE will resolve most the quirky issues people have. It reminds me of the first version of iDrive. Great in theory, but not fully polished.

The ATS has a lot in common with the 1st gen G35. A good car, but still a WIP. Fortunately, GM is bringin everything in house, so change is coming fast for all vehicles in the pipeline. The V36 was even better than the V35 but still had some roughage. I think the real V37 (when they release the new drivetrains) will hit the mark for Infiniti. Especially seeing where Nissan was 20 years ago.

ATLG37'09

Not competitive...actually I agree with you...that comment was copied from jwf's post to me.

ATS...no hurry but from what I can see, I like the direction they're going with the car.

GM corp...always wanted to ask...why was Pontiac killed in lieu of Buick? I know they were trying to attract a younger base with the Tiger endorsement, but Pontiac seemingly had more history/following with performance cars. As it stands Buick still seems to be straddling the baby boomer fence.

JMHO, but I think the design team @ Buick is getting it more right than Cadillac is but they don't have a clear focus. That said. if they gave the Lacrosse is a legitimate "S" version with the goodies the ATS has or will have underneath they could compete more than just with the ES Lexus.

Sorry about getting off topic.

bgoodman

iTrader: (1)

They axed Pontiac instead of Buick primarily due to name recognition. Buick is HUGE over in Asia. They can't build Buick's fast enough over there, so GM is capitalizing on it there. The Pontiacs b4 being axed were primarily clones of other models within the GM Brand. The new Chevy SS is essentially an updated version of the G8 (Holden Commodore).

Yea, I am loving the European look of the Buicks as well. They are designed in Germany while Cadillac is designed here. I'm not on the design side of things so I don't know they are sticking to the 'Art & Science' design versus a more fluidic design.

Since I'm a younger guy @ the company, I'm hoping to get involved somewhat with the future of what products are being put out to make it a more youthful brand versus what it is known for.

jwfisher

I'm going to restate that I don't think the current G is competitive anymore... but also I'll say that people's view on competitiveness is based on what they are looking for in products. There are multiple types of buyers for Gs, I'm in a very narrow area where I wanted a street car with hidden power (as was the intent for the original SHO for example, not the current morbidly obese pig) - aka the supercharger and handling bits I've added. That's definitely not the entire market or even a very visible portion of it (forms notwithstanding). And personally I'd rather buy it with all that stuff factory engineered rather than having to add it later (1, because it's better engineered by the factory, 2) I've done it myself too many times over the years, and 3) it's easier for resale).
When the G came out, and did well against the BMW 3 of that time (2 generations back), I liked it. And I thought the interior was a whole lot more upmarket and (with sport seats) more comfortable. I liked the pricing (it's always absurd that BMW has to charge more for leather!), and I liked not being put into the BMW mold.
But that is not where the new Q50 is going... I don't see that at all. Maybe in a later sport model, but not now, not in this first release of models. I don't like where I see Infiniti as a whole going either - right now, with what's released. I don't think they know exactly where they are going or who they are competing against - if anybody. I don't see them competing well against Cadillac at the moment. I don't personally like the Cadillac image or styling... but the engineering and performance results are solid. Show me an ATS that will take on my 500 HP G37S and I'll be impressed.

bgoodman

iTrader: (1)

I understand with what you are saying. You want something competitive where you don't have to build it out to make it competitive against other vehicles. In defense of Infiniti, one of the primary reasons BMW went the FI route was not for efficient dynamics or any of the marketing BS they've put out, but due to the fact they were simply out engineered in their engine designs.

The inline-6 is their bread and butter. So when Infiniti release their VQ series engines putting out a lot of power, they shoehorned turbos to their M54 block. Ultimately it resulted in the HPFP issues that they are still dealing with now, even after the N55 engine block refresh. The mg-al N52 (N52B30) engine design in the 328i was actually their planned followup from the M54 until Infiniti won the best engine awards from Wards.

To me, that says the VQ motors in the G/Q50 were good enough to spur BMW to step their game up. I do agree with you stating the engine is no longer competitive in the sense of being a game changer, but still suits the needs of 95% of the population.

I'm sure we can agree that Nissan takes their time with engine development, but once it does come out they are pretty rock solid and reliable. Just like with feedback people provided with the initial VQ35 engine, they came back with the stronger engine block in the VQ35HR. I would aspect the same would apply in the upcoming Q60. BMW has the BS prestige due to clever marketing whereas Nissan couldn't take the financial/reputation blow if they released a faulty engine.

Oh yea... regarding the ATS tearing up a 500hp G37S. That isn't a fair match unless you allowed the 3.6 V6 to have some sort of FI modification as well. If it was FI'ed, it would be pretty much a drivers race. The TT version of the ATS 3.6 engine is putting out over 450hp/400tq stock (conservative GM tune), but can reliably do over 600hp/500tq.