Car rolls when parked on a snowy incline
My two cents... My friend has a really steep driveway, so I always put the parking brake on in my car. Never rolled down the hill, even when I slipped trying to get parked off the sidewalk. I've never left my car on his driveway without the parking brake engaged. That being said it looks like the rear wheels are spinning within the diff, not at the transmission.
Ok so after lurking here for over a year, I finally bought myself a 2011 G37x a week ago today. It's got about 150,000 km on it and a clean carfax. I live up in Nothern Ontario, so I had to travel about 4 hours south to Toronto to find one.
I was so happy! It drives so well, it's so comfortable, it's everything I wanted it to be.
Fast forward a couple of days, when I go check on a friend's place while he's away and park it in his very steep hill of a driveway. It's snow-covered but not icy. I park, throw the e-brake on too just in case and go inside. I'm not inside for 2 minutes when my friend who was with me shouts that my car is rolling down the driveway!!
I run outside, and luckily it stopped at the bottom of the driveway as soon as the back tires hit dry flat ground.
Of course, I panicked, thinking something was definitely wrong with it. I took it to my brother who is a hobby mechanic and he tries a bunch of things and everything seems ok, so we figure it must have been a fluke where the wet snow slid or something.
Today, after some errands, I am sitting parked behind my place and after a few minutes, I feel the car roll backward. So I instinctively hit the brakes. Now the laneway that I was parked in is only on a very slight incline. It's hard packed slush but it's not super icy. I've tried to recreate it a few times both facing uphill and downhill and I've gotten it on video. (link at the bottom)
As far as my brother can tell, there's nothing wrong with the transmission and it is doing what it is supposed to but is just poorly designed and that snow tires would solve the problem. I can't imagine that this is the case, I feel like I would have seen at least SOMEONE somewhere complaining about it.
For the record, there are brand new all-seasons on the car. I do plan on buying a set of winters but I'm worried that there's more to it than that.
I've been driving rentals for work for the past 2 years and NEVER did I have to worry about some junky little Hyundai Accent or something equivalent rolling down a snowy hill unattended and the rental places use all-season tires around here. It just seems like a problem I shouldn't be having.
TLDR; Are you able to park your G37x on a snowy hill and have it stay put??
(I honestly don't know which answer would be worse - that there is something horribly wrong with my long-awaited car or that this is normal and something I just have to deal with if I want to own a G37x in a snowy climate...)
Videos:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/yYmJSkQX2tvnEest9
I was so happy! It drives so well, it's so comfortable, it's everything I wanted it to be.
Fast forward a couple of days, when I go check on a friend's place while he's away and park it in his very steep hill of a driveway. It's snow-covered but not icy. I park, throw the e-brake on too just in case and go inside. I'm not inside for 2 minutes when my friend who was with me shouts that my car is rolling down the driveway!!
I run outside, and luckily it stopped at the bottom of the driveway as soon as the back tires hit dry flat ground.
Of course, I panicked, thinking something was definitely wrong with it. I took it to my brother who is a hobby mechanic and he tries a bunch of things and everything seems ok, so we figure it must have been a fluke where the wet snow slid or something.
Today, after some errands, I am sitting parked behind my place and after a few minutes, I feel the car roll backward. So I instinctively hit the brakes. Now the laneway that I was parked in is only on a very slight incline. It's hard packed slush but it's not super icy. I've tried to recreate it a few times both facing uphill and downhill and I've gotten it on video. (link at the bottom)
As far as my brother can tell, there's nothing wrong with the transmission and it is doing what it is supposed to but is just poorly designed and that snow tires would solve the problem. I can't imagine that this is the case, I feel like I would have seen at least SOMEONE somewhere complaining about it.
For the record, there are brand new all-seasons on the car. I do plan on buying a set of winters but I'm worried that there's more to it than that.
I've been driving rentals for work for the past 2 years and NEVER did I have to worry about some junky little Hyundai Accent or something equivalent rolling down a snowy hill unattended and the rental places use all-season tires around here. It just seems like a problem I shouldn't be having.
TLDR; Are you able to park your G37x on a snowy hill and have it stay put??
(I honestly don't know which answer would be worse - that there is something horribly wrong with my long-awaited car or that this is normal and something I just have to deal with if I want to own a G37x in a snowy climate...)
Videos:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/yYmJSkQX2tvnEest9
The main reason we have not seen it as much in the past may have been due to the more recent adoption of AWD across many males and brands, and the “normal” behavior of full-time AWD drivetrain using three differentials to spread power between all four wheels. When you place your car in “park,” the driveshaft coming from your engine is locked, but the wheels themselves are not locked with respect to the ground, by design of the differential. There is a direct formula. If you put the AWD car up on a Jack in park and spin one wheel, other wheel(s) will spin in the counter direction.
I believe the failure mode looks something like this. After driving around, the car, brakes, wheels, and tires heat up. You park on an incline and the car stays put for a few seconds, minute, or whatever, but the tires pack and heat the slush, snow, underneath all 4 wheels. With the drivetrain as described above, the tire with the lowest static friction, whichever that may be (it prob won’t be a front tire, as that has significantly more weight from the engine) breaks loose from the static friction and begins to spin in the direction opposite the car’s downward movement along the incline. Why? Because the other 3 wheels/ tires have NOT broken free from static friction (recall my statement that one wheel will always have the lowest friction, just by luck of the draw) and the 3 wheels may now move freely with the direction of car motion while the one tire that broke lose spins in the counter direction, just as you so beautifully show in your video.
An additional irony to the matter is that once a single tire breaks free from its initial lowest static friction (compared to the others), it is now spinning under dynamic friction, which is significantly lower than the initial static friction was. After initial break-away, the car’s prospect become worse, not better, fueled by momentum as the car increases speed down the incline.
So there, I have tried to explain this behavior in a nutshell, and I believe this has happened and is continuing to happen to many more people than the automakers would ever want to admit, as it is by design of full-time AWD vehicles with the above-mentioned differentials. For my former wife, it was just a matter of some additional bad luck of having gone down to the bottom of her driveway to tend to her garbage cans, and then being struck and run over by the car rolling in relative silence over a fresh snow, with her back turned.
At least one car company, Audi, who pioneered this technology, I have been told applies brakes to all four wheels when the car is placed in park. I’m betting there haven’t been enough law suits yet for the other car companies to see that this is a dangerous situation, even though the safest way around this, and the way they will all say should be followed, is to always apply your parking brake on ANY incline, rather than relying on “park,” which on most makes cannot overcome this serious failure mode.
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coachdave2001
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Oct 3, 2015 01:46 PM




