Car rolls when parked on a snowy incline
03-13-2019, 06:58 PM
#1
Car rolls when parked on a snowy incline
Ok so after lurking here for over a year, I finally bought myself a 2011 G37x a week ago today. It's got about 150,000 km on it and a clean carfax. I live up in Nothern Ontario, so I had to travel about 4 hours south to Toronto to find one.
I was so happy! It drives so well, it's so comfortable, it's everything I wanted it to be.
Fast forward a couple of days, when I go check on a friend's place while he's away and park it in his very steep hill of a driveway. It's snow-covered but not icy. I park, throw the e-brake on too just in case and go inside. I'm not inside for 2 minutes when my friend who was with me shouts that my car is rolling down the driveway!!
I run outside, and luckily it stopped at the bottom of the driveway as soon as the back tires hit dry flat ground.
Of course, I panicked, thinking something was definitely wrong with it. I took it to my brother who is a hobby mechanic and he tries a bunch of things and everything seems ok, so we figure it must have been a fluke where the wet snow slid or something.
Today, after some errands, I am sitting parked behind my place and after a few minutes, I feel the car roll backward. So I instinctively hit the brakes. Now the laneway that I was parked in is only on a very slight incline. It's hard packed slush but it's not super icy. I've tried to recreate it a few times both facing uphill and downhill and I've gotten it on video. (link at the bottom)
As far as my brother can tell, there's nothing wrong with the transmission and it is doing what it is supposed to but is just poorly designed and that snow tires would solve the problem. I can't imagine that this is the case, I feel like I would have seen at least SOMEONE somewhere complaining about it.
For the record, there are brand new all-seasons on the car. I do plan on buying a set of winters but I'm worried that there's more to it than that.
I've been driving rentals for work for the past 2 years and NEVER did I have to worry about some junky little Hyundai Accent or something equivalent rolling down a snowy hill unattended and the rental places use all-season tires around here. It just seems like a problem I shouldn't be having.
TLDR; Are you able to park your G37x on a snowy hill and have it stay put??
(I honestly don't know which answer would be worse - that there is something horribly wrong with my long-awaited car or that this is normal and something I just have to deal with if I want to own a G37x in a snowy climate...)
Videos:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/yYmJSkQX2tvnEest9
I was so happy! It drives so well, it's so comfortable, it's everything I wanted it to be.
Fast forward a couple of days, when I go check on a friend's place while he's away and park it in his very steep hill of a driveway. It's snow-covered but not icy. I park, throw the e-brake on too just in case and go inside. I'm not inside for 2 minutes when my friend who was with me shouts that my car is rolling down the driveway!!
I run outside, and luckily it stopped at the bottom of the driveway as soon as the back tires hit dry flat ground.
Of course, I panicked, thinking something was definitely wrong with it. I took it to my brother who is a hobby mechanic and he tries a bunch of things and everything seems ok, so we figure it must have been a fluke where the wet snow slid or something.
Today, after some errands, I am sitting parked behind my place and after a few minutes, I feel the car roll backward. So I instinctively hit the brakes. Now the laneway that I was parked in is only on a very slight incline. It's hard packed slush but it's not super icy. I've tried to recreate it a few times both facing uphill and downhill and I've gotten it on video. (link at the bottom)
As far as my brother can tell, there's nothing wrong with the transmission and it is doing what it is supposed to but is just poorly designed and that snow tires would solve the problem. I can't imagine that this is the case, I feel like I would have seen at least SOMEONE somewhere complaining about it.
For the record, there are brand new all-seasons on the car. I do plan on buying a set of winters but I'm worried that there's more to it than that.
I've been driving rentals for work for the past 2 years and NEVER did I have to worry about some junky little Hyundai Accent or something equivalent rolling down a snowy hill unattended and the rental places use all-season tires around here. It just seems like a problem I shouldn't be having.
TLDR; Are you able to park your G37x on a snowy hill and have it stay put??
(I honestly don't know which answer would be worse - that there is something horribly wrong with my long-awaited car or that this is normal and something I just have to deal with if I want to own a G37x in a snowy climate...)
Videos:
https://photos.app.goo.gl/yYmJSkQX2tvnEest9
03-14-2019, 02:36 AM
#3
I mean, one wheel is grabbing and the rest are rolling, which I'm told has something to do with the AWD but is not necessarily indicative of something wrong. So it's kind of doing... both?
Take a look at the video link, maybe that give you a better idea. My concern is that the first time it happened was on a steep hill, but today it was a barely slanted laneway. It's just that I've parked on much steeper hills in similar conditions with worse tires in really cheap beat up rental cars and have never experienced this before. I cannot fathom that this is a common problem with the G37x that everyone just accepts as normal and no one talks about...?
Also, I'm not sure how this wound up in the off-topic section. Is there any way I can move it or have it moved to the G37 Sedan Forum?
Apologies, I'm new to posting here and I'm somewhat panicked and just worried about my new-to-me car
Take a look at the video link, maybe that give you a better idea. My concern is that the first time it happened was on a steep hill, but today it was a barely slanted laneway. It's just that I've parked on much steeper hills in similar conditions with worse tires in really cheap beat up rental cars and have never experienced this before. I cannot fathom that this is a common problem with the G37x that everyone just accepts as normal and no one talks about...?
Also, I'm not sure how this wound up in the off-topic section. Is there any way I can move it or have it moved to the G37 Sedan Forum?
Apologies, I'm new to posting here and I'm somewhat panicked and just worried about my new-to-me car
03-14-2019, 10:06 AM
#4
Confused how this could happen in park... Maybe, If you're parking gear is broken, and, the parking brake shoes are worn... I believe the diffs would cause that sort of wheel behavior.
Did you get a PPI?
My '12 xS has no problem with icy hills on all seasons.
Did you get a PPI?
My '12 xS has no problem with icy hills on all seasons.
03-14-2019, 10:23 AM
#5
Sorry I cant Help
But Just watched the Video!!1 WTF!!
Something is seriously wrong there and very unsafe. Good luck with finding the solution But Until then I would be very careful where you park..
But Just watched the Video!!1 WTF!!
Something is seriously wrong there and very unsafe. Good luck with finding the solution But Until then I would be very careful where you park..
03-14-2019, 12:15 PM
#6
I didn't notice the links were videos, thought they were just photos. So, I'm moving this (again). You have a drive train issue, specifically with the transfer case and/or rear diff.
As I live on the Texas Gulf Coast, I have zero experience with all-wheel drive systems.
Good luck!
As I live on the Texas Gulf Coast, I have zero experience with all-wheel drive systems.
Good luck!
03-14-2019, 12:34 PM
#7
Ok, thank you.
So this isn't typical behaviour? This is also my first AWD vehicle.
Yesterday I contacted the car lot I got it from to tell them I thought something was wrong, and they told me they'd get back to me but I haven't heard anything yet.
So this isn't typical behaviour? This is also my first AWD vehicle.
Yesterday I contacted the car lot I got it from to tell them I thought something was wrong, and they told me they'd get back to me but I haven't heard anything yet.
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03-14-2019, 12:51 PM
#8
Your rear tires shouldn't do what yours are doing when the car is on the ground. If the rear were jacked up off the ground and you spin one tire, the other rear tire will spin in the opposite direction since your car has what's called an open differential. Your car has a problem.
03-14-2019, 04:40 PM
#9
I'm still trying to wrap my head around the driverside rear spinning clockwise while the car is rolling forward in the video. The car is in park during this time??
To test your parking brake, leave the gear shift in N while parked on a mild incline. Engage the parking brake then release the normal brake. Expected behavior is for the car to shift weight slightly but remain still. If this doesn't happen your parking brake shoes are either worn or maladjusted as mentioned in #4 above.
To test your parking brake, leave the gear shift in N while parked on a mild incline. Engage the parking brake then release the normal brake. Expected behavior is for the car to shift weight slightly but remain still. If this doesn't happen your parking brake shoes are either worn or maladjusted as mentioned in #4 above.
03-14-2019, 05:03 PM
#10
Looks like the previous owner broken the pin that slides into place when you put it in park then burnt out those brakes in the tranny (if there are some, I am not fully versed on that planetary set). Will that effect driving? Nope, but it will do what you are seeing now. What would cause that? Abuse; slamming the car into park while its still moving, and similar. When you use your e-brake I imagine it doesn't move, correct?
03-14-2019, 05:12 PM
#11
Premier Member
Let us know what happen when you get it check by the garage or the dealership pls, Im in Ottawa Ontario and WOW
03-14-2019, 08:17 PM
#12
Yes, it's in park the whole time.
When I put the e-brake on, or hit the brake pedal it does stop. Although if it's particularly icy or a very sharp incline, even the e-brake doesn't hold it. The first time it happened it was on a steeper hill and it took probably like 5 minutes to start rolling back but it did so even with the e-brake on. So far it stays put while I'm stepping on the brake pedal, no matter the incline or the slippery surface.
It would be helpful to know if the front wheels are supposed to be engaged when in park. My dad was saying that on a regular front wheel drive vehicle, he's pretty sure that the front wheels are locked when in park and the back wheels are not. How is it supposed to work with AWD vehicles?
When I put the e-brake on, or hit the brake pedal it does stop. Although if it's particularly icy or a very sharp incline, even the e-brake doesn't hold it. The first time it happened it was on a steeper hill and it took probably like 5 minutes to start rolling back but it did so even with the e-brake on. So far it stays put while I'm stepping on the brake pedal, no matter the incline or the slippery surface.
It would be helpful to know if the front wheels are supposed to be engaged when in park. My dad was saying that on a regular front wheel drive vehicle, he's pretty sure that the front wheels are locked when in park and the back wheels are not. How is it supposed to work with AWD vehicles?
03-14-2019, 10:31 PM
#13
There is something called a pawl in the transmission that engages a coarse-toothed gear. In Park, the pawl engages the teeth which prevents the output shaft of the transmission from turning which prevents the drive wheels from turning. For the G, that's the rear. There is also the parking brake which is a small set of shoes that rub on a portion of the rear discs which also prevent the rear wheels from turning. There is nothing on the G that locks the front wheels for parking.
It sure looks like the parking pawl has been broken. The rear wheels turning in opposite directions is typical for an open diff. It's just very strange to see this while the car is on the ground.
It sure looks like the parking pawl has been broken. The rear wheels turning in opposite directions is typical for an open diff. It's just very strange to see this while the car is on the ground.
03-15-2019, 05:56 PM
#14
Update:
So I called the nearest Infiniti dealership and talked to the head of service (Kenny @ 400 Infiniti in Innisfil, ON). and I sent him the videos. While I was waiting for him to watch the videos and get back to me, he suggested I try it on a dry hill to see what happens. So I went and found a very steep dry hill and it was staying put no matter what I did - forwards or backwards, rolling forwards about a foot and putting it back in park a bunch of times... I didn't get to let it sit for too long in case another car came but it felt really solid. I even tried putting it in neutral and engaging the e-brake and letting go of the brake pedal to see if it held and it did fine with that too. Felt pretty solid. It rocked a bit when I put it in park but didn't roll or slide at all and with the e-brake, it didn't even budge.
I was starting to feel crazy and maybe it really was just the snow, but then Kenny from Infiniti called me back. He said something is definitely wrong and that his shop foreman has been working for the brand for 20 years and that he's never seen anything like it. He said that I could bring it to them to look at, but he recommended that I bring it back to the used car lot I bought it from ASAP because there's no denying that it's a huge safety issue. I mentioned that I just tried it on a dry hill with no problems and he said it didn't matter. Snow shouldn't cause that to happen, no matter how slippery it is.
Meanwhile, the neighbour mentioned his van slid 4 feet back in their front driveway overnight, so there's still a chance that Innisfil just doesn't get the same kind of weather conditions that we have up here, but also we had freezing rain all yesterday so conditions were much worse at the time. Luckily I was already parked in the flattest space I could find because of the problems I've been having, so I wasn't affected.
My brother is convinced that there's nothing wrong with it and that it was slipping in those videos because I'd driven back and forth on the same tire treads trying to get it to happen again to catch it on video and I caused that spot to become slippery enough to justify the all-season tires to not be able to grip it any longer. I just wish I knew another owner up here that I could get to test the same circumstances and see if their car behaves the same way. What he is proposing is that in the same situation when just left in park on a snowy hill, a strictly AWD car would lock all 4 wheels and not slide, a FWD car would lock the front and be fine with the weight of the engine to help, and a RWD would behaved similarly to the way the G37 does with it's intelligent AWD system but also probably would hold because of the limited slip. Because the G37x doesn't have that, as soon as the ground below it is a little slippery, it's gonna slide down an incline unless it has really grippy winter tires to hold it.
Maybe it's not something we run into often because most people have their winter tires on by the time it gets slippery out, and the sample size of people who own this vehicle and live in snowy conditions and don't have winters on is so small that it's just not a problem enough people have run into for it to be talked about.
I'm overwhelmed, frustrated, and running out of time to do something about this.
So I called the nearest Infiniti dealership and talked to the head of service (Kenny @ 400 Infiniti in Innisfil, ON). and I sent him the videos. While I was waiting for him to watch the videos and get back to me, he suggested I try it on a dry hill to see what happens. So I went and found a very steep dry hill and it was staying put no matter what I did - forwards or backwards, rolling forwards about a foot and putting it back in park a bunch of times... I didn't get to let it sit for too long in case another car came but it felt really solid. I even tried putting it in neutral and engaging the e-brake and letting go of the brake pedal to see if it held and it did fine with that too. Felt pretty solid. It rocked a bit when I put it in park but didn't roll or slide at all and with the e-brake, it didn't even budge.
I was starting to feel crazy and maybe it really was just the snow, but then Kenny from Infiniti called me back. He said something is definitely wrong and that his shop foreman has been working for the brand for 20 years and that he's never seen anything like it. He said that I could bring it to them to look at, but he recommended that I bring it back to the used car lot I bought it from ASAP because there's no denying that it's a huge safety issue. I mentioned that I just tried it on a dry hill with no problems and he said it didn't matter. Snow shouldn't cause that to happen, no matter how slippery it is.
Meanwhile, the neighbour mentioned his van slid 4 feet back in their front driveway overnight, so there's still a chance that Innisfil just doesn't get the same kind of weather conditions that we have up here, but also we had freezing rain all yesterday so conditions were much worse at the time. Luckily I was already parked in the flattest space I could find because of the problems I've been having, so I wasn't affected.
My brother is convinced that there's nothing wrong with it and that it was slipping in those videos because I'd driven back and forth on the same tire treads trying to get it to happen again to catch it on video and I caused that spot to become slippery enough to justify the all-season tires to not be able to grip it any longer. I just wish I knew another owner up here that I could get to test the same circumstances and see if their car behaves the same way. What he is proposing is that in the same situation when just left in park on a snowy hill, a strictly AWD car would lock all 4 wheels and not slide, a FWD car would lock the front and be fine with the weight of the engine to help, and a RWD would behaved similarly to the way the G37 does with it's intelligent AWD system but also probably would hold because of the limited slip. Because the G37x doesn't have that, as soon as the ground below it is a little slippery, it's gonna slide down an incline unless it has really grippy winter tires to hold it.
Maybe it's not something we run into often because most people have their winter tires on by the time it gets slippery out, and the sample size of people who own this vehicle and live in snowy conditions and don't have winters on is so small that it's just not a problem enough people have run into for it to be talked about.
I'm overwhelmed, frustrated, and running out of time to do something about this.
03-15-2019, 07:58 PM
#15
If your parking brake is on, the wheels shouldn't roll no matter how slippery the surface. Slide, maybe, but not roll.
Just to be clear, Infiniti AWD does not lock the front wheels in park.
I will say this, until you resolve the issue, always use your parking brake when leaving the car.
Just to be clear, Infiniti AWD does not lock the front wheels in park.
I will say this, until you resolve the issue, always use your parking brake when leaving the car.