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Watching Ford vs. Ferrari the other week got me thinking about the Shelby GT350. Great reviews about this car, especially the sound. But oddly enough it has almost exactly the same performance stats as the BMW M2 Competition, Toyota Supra, and the Camaro SS 1LE. (Is everyone trying to achieve exactly the same performance numbers in their sports cars or is this some freak coincidence?) When looking at those numbers the M2 is definitely the nicest place to be (with the most tuning potential) and the Camaro is definitely the best bargain. That being said the Camaro just looks big and ugly. I was picking up a car at one of our other stores the other day and they had an SS 1LE on the showroom.
The headroom/cocoon feeling is definitely better without the sunroof. With the $7,000 1LE package the Recaro seats are not bad with the alcantara inserts. I hear this car rides amazing with the magnetic dampers. If it is anything like the ATS-V, I would not be surprised. Has anyone driven a 1LE yet?
The dash is not too bad and the Alcantara steering wheel and shift **** are a nice touch. Too bad it is so ugly. Interesting side note: the black hood is just a wrap. I could not tell if it had normal paint underneath if you peeled off the wrap.
The inside of the GT350 still feels a little more special than the SS 1LE and the Recaros look more supportive and lighter. Is the back seat and trunk slightly more useable in the Mustang vs. Camaro? I bet the ride on this is not bad either with the magnetic shocks. Anyone drive one yet?
This is still a nicer place to be than both above and you get a real back seat and a real trunk. But the M3 is even better. How does the M2 ride? Has anyone driven one yet?
I'd go with the 1LE but then again I am a little biased. The GT350 has its fair share of engine issues and the BMW won't be any better. The 1LE is quite a bit more simple and the whole package just works. You can get a nice low mileage 1LE around 30k now, great bang for the buck which will have good resale value going forward after the initial hit.
To answer some questions here:
- Yes, the 1LE hood has a satin wrap which can be removed. The hood is painted just like any other car and then a wrap is installed at the factory before shipment.
- Mustang will have slightly more rear seat space & more trunk space.
- Magnetic ride is awesome, not too cheap to replace however (not too terrible either)
- The Camaro will feel more alive around town with its low end torque, the Mustang will be fun to roll out to redline
- The M2 can unleash some extra power with a simple tune, however the Camaro has proven great gains with simple bolt-ons + e85
Tempting, but my next car will be next level in every category, not just power. Hopefully, the G37S keeps me entertained for quiet a while. So far so good since I have driven a lot of "next level" cars that I expected to be great and walked away thinking they were just luke warm.
Originally Posted by RobC7
I'd go with the 1LE but then again I am a little biased. The GT350 has its fair share of engine issues and the BMW won't be any better. The 1LE is quite a bit more simple and the whole package just works. You can get a nice low mileage 1LE around 30k now, great bang for the buck which will have good resale value going forward after the initial hit.
To answer some questions here:
- Yes, the 1LE hood has a satin wrap which can be removed. The hood is painted just like any other car and then a wrap is installed at the factory before shipment.
- Mustang will have slightly more rear seat space & more trunk space.
- Magnetic ride is awesome, not too cheap to replace however (not too terrible either)
- The Camaro will feel more alive around town with its low end torque, the Mustang will be fun to roll out to redline
- The M2 can unleash some extra power with a simple tune, however the Camaro has proven great gains with simple bolt-ons + e85
The 1LE is definitely the performance bargain of the group. All of your answers are kind of what I expected. How much more room is in the back seat of a Mustang? Can you fit an adult back there? I am glad to see you can still get some pretty good power out of the Camaro with bolt ons. How far can you take the motor with power on stock internals? Does it have any forged internals?
Tempting, but my next car will be next level in every category, not just power. Hopefully, the G37S keeps me entertained for quiet a while. So far so good since I have driven a lot of "next level" cars that I expected to be great and walked away thinking they were just luke warm.
The 1LE is definitely the performance bargain of the group. All of your answers are kind of what I expected. How much more room is in the back seat of a Mustang? Can you fit an adult back there? I am glad to see you can still get some pretty good power out of the Camaro with bolt ons. How far can you take the motor with power on stock internals? Does it have any forged internals?
You could fit a tiny adult in both cars but they won't be comfortable in either. I consider them 2 seater with 2 emergency seats if you really need them. This was part of the reason I went with the C7 vs a 1LE the first time around......
LT1s can do 450-500whp bolton/fuel , and about 500-550whp with the addition of aftermarket heads/cam. I gave that range because it really depends how aggressive you get. LT1s are not forged and will withstand about 600whp on boost. The ZL1's LT4 motor has forged pistons that many people slap in (not to mention the blower is also a direct swap).
You could fit a tiny adult in both cars but they won't be comfortable in either. I consider them 2 seater with 2 emergency seats if you really need them. This was part of the reason I went with the C7 vs a 1LE the first time around......
LT1s can do 450-500whp bolton/fuel , and about 500-550whp with the addition of aftermarket heads/cam. I gave that range because it really depends how aggressive you get. LT1s are not forged and will withstand about 600whp on boost. The ZL1's LT4 motor has forged pistons that many people slap in (not to mention the blower is also a direct swap).
I ask about the back seat because I have a 1 yr. old daughter and I sat in the back of an M2 and M4 and was surprised by how much room was in the back seat. I am 6'1" and fit comfortably in both.
That does sound pretty healthy for an LT1. I think I am beyond the stage of pulling a motor and swapping pistons or at least struggling to find the spare time to do it, but that is interesting that those parts all fit so well.
Just got another update for my Tesla Model 3. Will try this stuff out tomorrow. 😎
All those updates are pretty cool. It is interesting to me how many cars get digital updates now when they come in for an oil change. Cars have so many electronics now it is a bit overwhelming.
Just came back from a long week in Germany driving a 2019 BMW 330d. Basic review: not a BMW I would spend the money on. Looks like a newer Camry with a kidney grill, and the interior is camry-esqe too. Tries too hard to automate stuff that doesn't need automation and makes the driving experience harder. Nav was really, really worthless - we ended up using our phones and google maps after spending hours chasing a street in Koln that didn't exist. More later with pictures once I get sorted out.
All those updates are pretty cool. It is interesting to me how many cars get digital updates now when they come in for an oil change. Cars have so many electronics now it is a bit overwhelming.
my favorite updates have been the two times they’ve increased power by 5% each time. No wrench time needed.
I have a 17 CTR as my track car and i hate to admit this but.... i love the way the ole G blends performance with luxury, new cars these days either sway one way or the other... its hard to find a balanced reliable vehicle these days, the more turbos the more issues...
Disclosure: I've rented 3-sedans in Germany maybe 8-10 times (military deployments) from a 318 to a 320d wagon, starting in 1996 or so. Google says we put 1200 km (~750 miles) on it and spent about 15 hours in it driving over the course of 10 days. City, A and B roads and autobahn.
First impressions: With the slitty LED headlights and the horizontal tail lights, it looks a lot like a newer Camry. Interior wise, it does not look BMW - I know this is a low-end rental model, and Camrys (Camries?) are quite nice, but... I expected more.
Passenger comfort: two adults and a child seat, plenty of room. Seats comfortable for long drives and the seat heaters were a godsend. That was what I expected from a 3-series. Heat/aircon controls were confusing but there was an auto button so meh.
Driving Characteristics: it was very driver-workload-intensive. I had to work at keeping in lane and to keep on driving line for curves, until about 130 kph (80 mph) or so. Then it settled down and behaved. In towns it was twitchy. This model has multiple driving modes, eco, eco pro, sport, sport pro, comfort. I stayed in either sport pro or eco individual most of the time once I figured out the settings - eco engine and trans and sport suspension settings. Sport pro in towns - trans hunted too much on the 'bahn, and eco was better for my in-laws in their Golf to keep up. Sport steering/suspension settings seemed to firm up things and minimize the hunting. But on A and B roads (equivalent to US state highways and smaller interstates) it took constant attention to direct driving. Max speed in an unrestricted stretch was about 240, and it was very stable at that speed.
Smart driving aids: After I figured it out, the intelligent cruise control was nice when I wasn't in-city. It is coupled with the GPS so it will not let you set a speed higher than the speed limit in that particular spot, and limits you to 130kph on unrestricted roads. Does have 1-touch acceptance of upwards and downward shifts in speed limit.
It also had a more automatic mode that kept you in the lane as well as ICC. That hunted back and forth between the lane lines and I did NOT like that so I didn't experiment further.
It also has automatic lane departure detection. Resembled stall-speed stick shakers in an airplane - steering wheel shudders when it thinks you are near a lane line. HOWEVER, default setting is to intervene in the steering and steer you back to your lane. If you've ever driven in Germany, you know that you must drive in the right lane unless overtaking - it is a law of nature there and must be followed or risk an accident. We mostly ran at limits of 120-130kph. The truck speed limit is 90kph, so I was always having to pass trucks. Every time I went to lane change, even with blinker on, it fought me. DID NOT like. Finally figured out how to keep the notification and turn off intervention, and that was way better. But I do not now and do not think I will EVER care for the car steering fighting with me even a little bit.
Navigation: GPS navigation directions were horrid. It would not give us more than 50 meter warning for exits, which at 130 is a blink of an eye. Exits that start with an single exit lane that both directions exit from were super confusing and we never got those figured out. It also directed us multiple times in cities to drive through pedestrian-only areas to get to our destination. So we used Google Maps after the first few days, and that made things smoother.
Driving Ergonomics: The dash board reminds me of a video game HUD, and not in a good way. I actually started to refer to it as a heads-down display. I think if I was the Xbox/PS4 generation I might like it better. Speed graph on right was completely unnecessary. I just watched the digital readout. Tach is moot on an automatic car with no provision for manual shifting. The simplified map overlaid in the center of the display is initially neat, but can make the other data hard to discern. Many icons were way too small to see without my reading glasses, and several indications (road number or the like) displayed in "caution amber" so I thought I had an error condition/code. Also would flash red and beep every time you came to a stop sign, which would cause you to look down to see what was wrong - and distract you from stopping.
The shifter. Baby Jebus in a birchbark canoe is that a horrid design. I should not have to look at the shifter EVERY time I need to go from park to drive to reverse. It's actually just a switch - press forward to to backwards, back to go forwards, but remember to press the button on the side for it to actually do something and that park is a different button. That never became intuitive.
The main reason I like(d) BMWs before is that they tend to automate all the distractions and let you focus purely on driving the car, and make it easy to do so. This one took a lot of work for daily driving and the automation/tech took WAY too much attention to use. Driving in Germany usually requires 100% focus, especially with a Europe-inexperienced driver following you. This car took more than that just to make the normal stuff go, and left me exhausted. Ended up with my wife navigating 100% and running most of the interior controls.
Also, no backup camera. In Europe where parking spaces are slightly narrower than most sedans. Really, BMW? Radar cruise control but no backup camera?
Would I buy one: Nope. I'd buy older or wait for newer.
Likes: High speed stability. ICC is neat. Diesel power was good but probably not available in the US.
Dislikes: Dash, all driver controls pretty much.
We finally got in an Audi RS3 that was not parked on the showroom "sold" so I finally got a chance to drive it. This one had the black optic package that blacks out the wheels, mirrors, grill, etc. I think it looks best in black and red. It certainly does look aggressive without being overdone from the front.
It looks pretty nice from the side too. The package that puts wider tires on the front of the car led me to believe this car might understeer a bit. The other obvious sign is when you pop the hood and see most of the engine sitting in front of the front axle. Not great for handling, but the 5 cylinder engine does sound nice in "dynamic" mode without being overdone like the Hyundai Veloster N with the performance package.
Here you can see the massive 8 piston front brake calipers. These have great initial bite and I would imagine they would be a nice advantage on the track. But why do they cross drill the front rotors? Not great for track days.
Here is some significant cost cutting. Audi went with much smaller brakes on the rear and what looks like a single piston sliding caliper. This sucks for track days because you need to remove the entire caliper just to change the brake pads. Also, why cross drill the front rotors, but not the rear?
The interior, like most Audis today is a very nice place to be. Plenty of leather, alcantara, and stitching. The Bang and Olufsen stereo is decent, but really lacks the low end punch of the bass we get in our cars with the big subwoofers in our front doors. This is the same thing I noticed with the Bose system in the ATS-V and the Harmon Kardon system in the M3. All nice systems, but the bass sucks compared to our cars. This is about it for gripes with the RS3. Not too many with this car.
The seats remind me of a cobra snake with the upper wings flared out and ready to attack. Fortunately, these seats are much more pleasant to sit on. They are pretty easy to get in and out of and are totally manual except for the lumbar support that inflates extremely quickly and can be lowered or raised depending on where you need support in your back. Obviously, they were trying to cut costs again with the seats being manual, but I don't mind. These seats look even better with the option that makes all the stitching red. That armrest is also hiding a very good wireless charging pad. I was impressed that it actually worked through my relatively thick cell phone case.
All the materials inside are very nice. The screen on top pops up out of the dash on start up and drops back into the dash when you turn the car off. Neat concept, but I cannot imagine what it costs to fix once the motor wears out that moves the screen. The aluminum trim on the dash looks nice, but it looks even better with the carbon fiber option. The package that makes all the stitching red also makes the bezels around the vents red. It looks great and makes this one of the best interiors. Certainly better than the ATS-V and definitely on par with the M3/M2.
There are 4 different driving modes. The "individual" mode is the only one that allows customization and there are 3 settings for each category. Much easier to set up than the M3. Surprisingly, the car rides really smooth in all of the modes, even the most aggressive "dynamic" mode. That is also the mode that makes the exhaust quite a bit louder.
The flat bottom steering wheel with alcantara where your hands sit and the digital dash are among the best. However, my left foot was still itching for something to do.
This is the "performance" display that gives you a nice big tachometer which should be great for track days if you choose to shift manually. The "power," "torque," and "boost" gauges are just as useless as they are on any other car. There is also a G-meter and a lap timer. I suppose the lap timer could be useful, but so would a heads up display.
Here is the full digital dash with the big nav screen. I could see this being useful a few times a year for me, but I would prefer to see my next turn displayed in a heads up display.
The trunk has a decent amount of space. It is smaller than the trunk on our G37's, but probably only because the battery is in the back for weight distribution and all of the AWD gear. However it does have a pass through and fold down rear seats so it wins that contest. Speaking of the back seat, it is pretty roomy. Probably right between an ATS-V and an M3.
Due to the cold temps and summer tires I was not able to test out the handling very well. However, I did get to test out the acceleration and it is extremely quick, even while struggling to put the power down considering the conditions. With the DSG it actually reminded me the most of the GT-R in terms of acceleration. Unfortunately, that comparison probably ends pretty quickly once you throw in turning and braking.
Overall, I think this would make a great car for a lot of enthusiasts, especially with the AWD if you get snow. It is blisteringly quick bone stock and I can imagine it capable of hitting "ludicrous speed" with not much more than a tune. The ride, back seat, and trunk are very useable as far as a daily driver goes and the interior is an extremely nice place to be. For the track rats it could definitely use some more performance oriented weight distribution for handling, rear brakes, and gauges. With a new A3 coming soon it is only a matter of time before the next RS3 drops and maybe they will fix some of these issues. If all you are looking for is a ridiculously fast daily driver, this car will be very tough to beat.
Great write up! Love the RS3 that 5 pot is an unreal engine people are making insane numbers with. If you think it sounds nice in dynamic hear it with a good exhaust system on and it’s a little rocket. A lot of the Germans do the floating caliper on the tears as cost savings unfortunately.
12-05-2019, 03:48 PM
