Q50 Eau Rouge
#92
Registered Member
The Eau Rouge could have a blown 3.7 or 3.5(hybrid?) or maybe a detuned version of the GTR engine. Most likely though will be an all new 3.0 liter twin turbo V6 that DeNysschen hinted at in one of his earlier interviews where he was defending the whole name change thing. This engine will also show up in the Q60 coupe as well as the (Q70) M replacement, so it needs to be smaller and lighter while matching or exceeding the M56's V8 (420hp & 417lb-ft.), and offer more torque while getting noticeably better fuel economy. It should be comparable in power and specs to the M3 for a bit less money.
If they were planning on doing this, they should have just named it the Q50R and not "Eau Rouge".
Between the name change and this Eau Rouge business, I kind of what to shoot Infiniti's brand development team.
EDIT: can you provide a source for when DeNysschen was talking about the 3.0 liter TT engine? All I can seem to find is the 2.0L Turbo diesel sourced from Mercedes.
Last edited by crazjayz; 01-08-2014 at 02:25 PM.
#93
Registered User
Sound very plausible, but if true, why call this car the Eau Rouge? Makes it seems like a 1-off performance edition when it should just be integrated into the naming system across the brand. Are they going to have a Q70 Eau Rouge as well, or is it just going to be called the Q70 and it'll have the Q50ER engine?
If they were planning on doing this, they should have just named it the Q50R and not "Eau Rouge".
Between the name change and this Eau Rouge business, I kind of what to shoot Infiniti's brand development team.
EDIT: can you provide a source for when DeNysschen was talking about the 3.0 liter TT engine? All I can seem to find is the 2.0L Turbo diesel sourced from Mercedes.
If they were planning on doing this, they should have just named it the Q50R and not "Eau Rouge".
Between the name change and this Eau Rouge business, I kind of what to shoot Infiniti's brand development team.
EDIT: can you provide a source for when DeNysschen was talking about the 3.0 liter TT engine? All I can seem to find is the 2.0L Turbo diesel sourced from Mercedes.
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SlimTV (01-08-2014)
#94
Registered User
iTrader: (4)
Well, at $90k loaded you're looking at either at a fully loaded C36 or a base E63. If the Q50ER has the powertrain from the GTR, at $90k it would be a bargain. The Q50 is already larger than the C, much closer to the E's body, and if you were to compared to an E, it would be ~$20k cheaper.
What would really REALLY be awesome, is if they went ***** to the wall with this and used TWO CLA45 engines. 4.0L V8 quad-turbo with 700 hp. Would be very very awesome as a technical showcase. Even more nuts would be if they developed a shortened W8TT. Only 1 car has had the W8 configuration, and it was a VW. I still believe the W configuration is technically superior to traditional V's. shorter case means that it can be places further into the car, making the center of gravity closer to the middle, which would definitely aid in handling.
I agree. At $70k it goes back to what I previously said where they're going to slightly bump up the numbers from a Q50 Hybrid (my guess was 380hp/380tq at the wheels, so something around 450 at the crank) via new intake/exhaust and possibly more aggressive hybrid technology. The GTR powertrain is quite cost prohibitive; $30k for the engine alone. That's why I'm saying if it they drop it in, it'll be a $90k car. I mean, it's not like the GTR is the pinnacle of luxury here and it already costs $100k. It would be nice to hear a new engine from Nissan/Infiniti, but the fact that there are no rumors or spy pics of an engine being extensively tested, like a completely new design would be.
What would really REALLY be awesome, is if they went ***** to the wall with this and used TWO CLA45 engines. 4.0L V8 quad-turbo with 700 hp. Would be very very awesome as a technical showcase. Even more nuts would be if they developed a shortened W8TT. Only 1 car has had the W8 configuration, and it was a VW. I still believe the W configuration is technically superior to traditional V's. shorter case means that it can be places further into the car, making the center of gravity closer to the middle, which would definitely aid in handling.
I agree. At $70k it goes back to what I previously said where they're going to slightly bump up the numbers from a Q50 Hybrid (my guess was 380hp/380tq at the wheels, so something around 450 at the crank) via new intake/exhaust and possibly more aggressive hybrid technology. The GTR powertrain is quite cost prohibitive; $30k for the engine alone. That's why I'm saying if it they drop it in, it'll be a $90k car. I mean, it's not like the GTR is the pinnacle of luxury here and it already costs $100k. It would be nice to hear a new engine from Nissan/Infiniti, but the fact that there are no rumors or spy pics of an engine being extensively tested, like a completely new design would be.
#95
Registered Member
- M5 - $92,500
- E63 - $92,770
- Panamera S - $93,200
- Q50 Eau Rouge - starting around $75,500, fully loaded at $90,000*
At $90k fully loaded Q50ER would actually be a bargain. A well equipped M5 is around $105k, and the same goes for the E63. The Porsche, we all know, is in a different league with it comes to pricing. Moderately equipped you're looking closer to $110k. Now, if you think I'm really insane, possibly because I'm comparing it to the wrong car class (I should be looking at the C63, M3, ISF), check this out.
If the Q50ER really does have a 550hp engine, which would pretty much mean something exactly like the GTR. Why? Because they all nearly weigh the same.
GTR - 3829lbs
Q50S AWD - 3849lbs
Q50S hybrid AWD - 4145lbs
If they just did a drivetrain swap, the weights wouldn't change all that much (I would actually think they would go down). So pretty much, you're talking GTR performance for $90k. The C63, M3, ISF crowd is no comparison to a GTR; heck, even E63/M5 can't hang with a GTR. So sure, it's a bit more expensive than these cars, but it's also delivering something significantly above them too.
The GTR is the "bargain" supercar because it can keep up with the likes of Porsche and Ferrari at half the price. The Q50ER may be the bargain supersedan if it can keep up with something like a Panamera Turbo at half the price.
Last edited by crazjayz; 01-08-2014 at 07:16 PM.
#97
Registered Member
This doesn't happen often.
What do we have here then?
It's a Q50 Eau Rouge, named after the famous turn at Spa. The trail goes like this: Red Bull Racing use Renault engines. Renault is shacked up with Nissan. Nissan owns Infiniti, which therefore gets to glue its stickers on Vettel's racing car. And as part of the deal, they get to use his name on a road car.
So it's a lean, featherweight racing homage, then?
Absolutely not. It might be slathered in real carbon fibre, but this is still a large, luxo sedan. The brochure tries to convince us it's the ‘perfect sports car', which is blatant nonsense. It weighs nearly two tonnes.
Tell us more about this carbon fibre.
It's the real deal: hand made and baked in a small autoclave, like it would be in an F1 factory. Many hours go into each bit, and the rear wing costs £4,800 on its own. Infiniti asked Infiniti Red Bull Racing to shape it, which is why the front wing looks like the wavy one from his racecar and the rear diffuser incorporates a central F1-style foglight.
Sounds expensive.
A regular Q50S AWD costs $43,350. This one is $85,000 and that's before you add the rear wing. The material cost of the carbon takes care of some of the premium (it's all over the wing mirror and interior console too). There's also a new exhaust worth an extra 30bhp and many decibels, plus new and slightly lighter wheels. The seats are re-trimmed in Alcantara with purple stitching and super-Seb badges. Every buyer gets an iPad so they can track the build process of their car. And Infiniti will throw in an unspecified but hopefully excellent experience, depending on dates and availability. Early buyers got a few laps of a circuit with Mr Vettel himself.
So what's it like to drive?
Brutish. The engine is the same as in the Nissan GT-R. The 3.8-litre engine boots put 550bhp, versus the 328bhp in the normal car, and the new exhaust batters the air like a distant Chinook. It's 20mm lower and a bit stiffer than usual, so there's marginally less slop through corners. The carbon bits are actually functional, so there's five per cent less drag and 30 per cent less lift. But you'd have to be going massively fast to notice it, because mostly, this still feels like a monster. It's more agile than an E-class, but doesn't feel as sharp as a BMW M5. And it's wide: on the narrow cols above Monaco, we were permanently paranoid about grating all that lovely carbon on an Alp.
Hmm. But what if I really, really like Mr Vettel?
Then this is the car for you, you big show-off. So move fast before they sell out: only 150 will be made, 50 of which will come to Europe with 15-ish of those for Britain. Oh, and Mr Vettel will get the first one. It's an impressive thing to look at, and anyone with a passing interest in cars will enjoy the noise and spectacle of it all. Otherwise, it's hard to take it seriously. Especially at that price...
The numbers: 3799cc V6 Twin-Turbo, 4WD, 550bhp, 470lb ft, 21.6mpg (combined), 307g/km C02, 0-62mph in 3.1 seconds, 155mph max
The cost: $85,000
The verdict: It's loud and amusing, but a bit of carbon fibre dressing does not transform this into a sports car. It might be named after an F1 champ, but it's a world away from his Sunday wheels. 5/10
The rival: BMW M5, Mercedes E63 AMG S
It's a Q50 Eau Rouge, named after the famous turn at Spa. The trail goes like this: Red Bull Racing use Renault engines. Renault is shacked up with Nissan. Nissan owns Infiniti, which therefore gets to glue its stickers on Vettel's racing car. And as part of the deal, they get to use his name on a road car.
So it's a lean, featherweight racing homage, then?
Absolutely not. It might be slathered in real carbon fibre, but this is still a large, luxo sedan. The brochure tries to convince us it's the ‘perfect sports car', which is blatant nonsense. It weighs nearly two tonnes.
Tell us more about this carbon fibre.
It's the real deal: hand made and baked in a small autoclave, like it would be in an F1 factory. Many hours go into each bit, and the rear wing costs £4,800 on its own. Infiniti asked Infiniti Red Bull Racing to shape it, which is why the front wing looks like the wavy one from his racecar and the rear diffuser incorporates a central F1-style foglight.
Sounds expensive.
A regular Q50S AWD costs $43,350. This one is $85,000 and that's before you add the rear wing. The material cost of the carbon takes care of some of the premium (it's all over the wing mirror and interior console too). There's also a new exhaust worth an extra 30bhp and many decibels, plus new and slightly lighter wheels. The seats are re-trimmed in Alcantara with purple stitching and super-Seb badges. Every buyer gets an iPad so they can track the build process of their car. And Infiniti will throw in an unspecified but hopefully excellent experience, depending on dates and availability. Early buyers got a few laps of a circuit with Mr Vettel himself.
So what's it like to drive?
Brutish. The engine is the same as in the Nissan GT-R. The 3.8-litre engine boots put 550bhp, versus the 328bhp in the normal car, and the new exhaust batters the air like a distant Chinook. It's 20mm lower and a bit stiffer than usual, so there's marginally less slop through corners. The carbon bits are actually functional, so there's five per cent less drag and 30 per cent less lift. But you'd have to be going massively fast to notice it, because mostly, this still feels like a monster. It's more agile than an E-class, but doesn't feel as sharp as a BMW M5. And it's wide: on the narrow cols above Monaco, we were permanently paranoid about grating all that lovely carbon on an Alp.
Hmm. But what if I really, really like Mr Vettel?
Then this is the car for you, you big show-off. So move fast before they sell out: only 150 will be made, 50 of which will come to Europe with 15-ish of those for Britain. Oh, and Mr Vettel will get the first one. It's an impressive thing to look at, and anyone with a passing interest in cars will enjoy the noise and spectacle of it all. Otherwise, it's hard to take it seriously. Especially at that price...
The numbers: 3799cc V6 Twin-Turbo, 4WD, 550bhp, 470lb ft, 21.6mpg (combined), 307g/km C02, 0-62mph in 3.1 seconds, 155mph max
The cost: $85,000
The verdict: It's loud and amusing, but a bit of carbon fibre dressing does not transform this into a sports car. It might be named after an F1 champ, but it's a world away from his Sunday wheels. 5/10
The rival: BMW M5, Mercedes E63 AMG S
Last edited by crazjayz; 01-08-2014 at 08:06 PM.
#99
My only input: If it is a limited run or 1-off production are we really surprised given Infiniti and their marketing and badge changes? Heck there's a framed photo of a 03 G35 hung up in the waiting room of my nice local dealership with a loaded M56S in the showroom (drool btw)
Second - it may not be a "bargain" but maybe they dont need it to be and current GTR drivetrain or not theyre banking on the fact that this thing is going to deliver and be worth it. If its not, again considering IPL are you surprised? You could get a maxima with 19" wheels but not a G sedan?
Its a longshot for this to be a "supersedan" but it could very well be that its now or never and since honda isnt doing enough anything and toyota is only going to improve the F line theyre gonna try to "step it up" into AMG, M, F, S territory.
Second - it may not be a "bargain" but maybe they dont need it to be and current GTR drivetrain or not theyre banking on the fact that this thing is going to deliver and be worth it. If its not, again considering IPL are you surprised? You could get a maxima with 19" wheels but not a G sedan?
Its a longshot for this to be a "supersedan" but it could very well be that its now or never and since honda isnt doing enough anything and toyota is only going to improve the F line theyre gonna try to "step it up" into AMG, M, F, S territory.
#100
Registered Member
iTrader: (1)
I've seen this movie before. Everyone on these forums gets up and talk about a wagon Q50 with 800hp is what they've always wanted and as soon as its available they're gonna buy two. The reality however is very different, Infiniti can't make this car 90k (loaded or not) and turn a profit. Remember the CEO required the GTR to turn a profit and its now at 120k from 85k in 2010.
Carbon fiber body and all Infiniti just doesn't have the brand awareness to command this kind of a premium. You may assume that the badge doesn't play a role but it does in the premium market where this car is expected to play at those prices. I'm just not seeing this car costing more than 75k loaded.
Put it like this a loaded S4 is about 68k and it has options that just isn't on this car. Adjustable suspension, DCT, Google maps and yes a preimum feeling interior.
Carbon fiber body and all Infiniti just doesn't have the brand awareness to command this kind of a premium. You may assume that the badge doesn't play a role but it does in the premium market where this car is expected to play at those prices. I'm just not seeing this car costing more than 75k loaded.
Put it like this a loaded S4 is about 68k and it has options that just isn't on this car. Adjustable suspension, DCT, Google maps and yes a preimum feeling interior.
#101
Registered Member
So the article is a little bit older (from April 13, 2012), but the information has been pretty darn accurate. There's a lot of talk about the Q50s development, but the real juicy bits come near the end:
Seems strange that they might develop a whole new 3.7L TT engine when they already have the 3.8L TT from the GTR, unless they're using pretty much everything from the VR38DETT and just dropping the stroke from 88.4mm back to 86mm like the VQ37.
Q. And what about that high performance model you mentioned?
A. I thought you might ask about that. We have an all-new engine in the pipeline that will only be built in Japan, as it requires specialized production methods only available here. It is a totally new 3.7-liter direct injection, twin-turbocharged V-6 that is being built for our new IPL (Infiniti Performance Line) range of high-performance vehicles. Targeting the likes of the C63 AMG and M3, it will generate upwards of 530 hp.
Q. Finally some real performance from Infiniti. And where will it be built?
A. It'll only be built at the same plant as the Nissan GT-R, our Tochigi plant. I think our marketing types want to create a special high performance "Tochigi brand," as this will be the only place where the GT-R and IPL engines are basically hand-made. Tochigi will come to mean "a unique brand of Japan-made performance, luxury and quality."
Q. What about pricing? Won't this IPL be expensive?
A. The 530-hp IPL-spec G will probably be priced at around the same price as the GT-R if not a fraction more. Given that the basic C63 AMG costs (in Japan) around 10 million yen, that is where the IPL will be priced, I feel.
Read more: Infiniti Super G with 530-hp Twin-Turbo V-6 in Pipeline - Motor Trend
A. I thought you might ask about that. We have an all-new engine in the pipeline that will only be built in Japan, as it requires specialized production methods only available here. It is a totally new 3.7-liter direct injection, twin-turbocharged V-6 that is being built for our new IPL (Infiniti Performance Line) range of high-performance vehicles. Targeting the likes of the C63 AMG and M3, it will generate upwards of 530 hp.
Q. Finally some real performance from Infiniti. And where will it be built?
A. It'll only be built at the same plant as the Nissan GT-R, our Tochigi plant. I think our marketing types want to create a special high performance "Tochigi brand," as this will be the only place where the GT-R and IPL engines are basically hand-made. Tochigi will come to mean "a unique brand of Japan-made performance, luxury and quality."
Q. What about pricing? Won't this IPL be expensive?
A. The 530-hp IPL-spec G will probably be priced at around the same price as the GT-R if not a fraction more. Given that the basic C63 AMG costs (in Japan) around 10 million yen, that is where the IPL will be priced, I feel.
Read more: Infiniti Super G with 530-hp Twin-Turbo V-6 in Pipeline - Motor Trend
#105
A quarter past stripped
Looks retarded It seems these auto makers are trying to hard nowadays. Lexus with the gapping maw, Audi with too many LED's, Benz with the glow in the dark front emblem, now infiniti with a S&M prop on it's *ss. It looks like they stole a design from that gay little car the velostar?