Anyone wish G37 gained tq instead of hp?
04-26-2010, 09:35 AM
#61
If you were to test the new engines using pre-2005 criteria, it would likely be making much more power than your VQ or even the advertised present-day #'s.
04-26-2010, 11:40 AM
#63
One thing you missed, your #'s are based off of the old SAE ratings. The revised "SAE-certified" ratings in 2005 usually translated to lesser hp and tq for those cars tested under the old criteria. (Mostly imports, for some reason, several domestics ended up with higher hp/tq ratings with the revised test).
If you were to test the new engines using pre-2005 criteria, it would likely be making much more power than your VQ or even the advertised present-day #'s.
If you were to test the new engines using pre-2005 criteria, it would likely be making much more power than your VQ or even the advertised present-day #'s.
yes, very true. 260tq on the dyno is more like 220tq
04-26-2010, 01:53 PM
#64
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The SAE rating is voluntary, see here: Horsepower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And I don't believe Infiniti is using it. Plus, going by the examples in the link, I don't think the old VQ engine would drop from 260tq to 220tq even using the new rating method. A drop of 40lbs/ft is a hell of alot.
And I don't believe Infiniti is using it. Plus, going by the examples in the link, I don't think the old VQ engine would drop from 260tq to 220tq even using the new rating method. A drop of 40lbs/ft is a hell of alot.
04-26-2010, 02:52 PM
#65
The SAE rating is voluntary, see here: Horsepower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And I don't believe Infiniti is using it. Plus, going by the examples in the link, I don't think the old VQ engine would drop from 260tq to 220tq even using the new rating method. A drop of 40lbs/ft is a hell of alot.
And I don't believe Infiniti is using it. Plus, going by the examples in the link, I don't think the old VQ engine would drop from 260tq to 220tq even using the new rating method. A drop of 40lbs/ft is a hell of alot.
04-26-2010, 03:13 PM
#66
The SAE rating is voluntary, see here: Horsepower - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
And I don't believe Infiniti is using it. Plus, going by the examples in the link, I don't think the old VQ engine would drop from 260tq to 220tq even using the new rating method. A drop of 40lbs/ft is a hell of alot.
And I don't believe Infiniti is using it. Plus, going by the examples in the link, I don't think the old VQ engine would drop from 260tq to 220tq even using the new rating method. A drop of 40lbs/ft is a hell of alot.
Both sedan and coupe shared the same 3.5-liter V6, but the sedan originally made less power (260 hp with four doors, 280 with two doors). They were made even at 280 hp for 2005, and both models when equipped with the six-speed manual option got a boost to 298 hp. These horsepower numbers dropped to 293 and 275, respectively, for the '07 coupe because of a change in SAE testing procedures -- actual output did not, in fact, change.
...There is speculation that the output did not actually change, and that Infiniti was simply taking advantage of the outdated SAE standard of rating horsepower.
Although the horsepower rating increases only 8 hp compared to the latest version of the previous "DE" engine, the real horsepower difference was much greater due to Nissan adopting the 2006 SAE hp measurement guidelines for horsepower ratings in 2007.
Also, several of Nissan's press releases for the Altima/Maxima refers to SAE J1349 AUG 2004 which is the revised standard. Compare that to the 1st gen coupe ratings which is based on the J1349 JUN1995 standard. I see no reason why they'd do that for the Nissan line-up but not the Infiniti.
For the record, SAE J2723 = certified is built upon the new standard and basically just outlines how the new standard should be followed (needs a third party certification/witness, for example).
04-28-2010, 04:19 PM
#67
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Haven't read the whole thread so sorry of this has been posted already, but I would gladly switch in an instant to an engine that had the torque and HP numbers reversed.
The HP is useless off the track or below 100 mph. The lack of torque shows up every single time I drive the car.
If the numbers were reversed, we could also have a 7th gear ratio that resulted in 2,000 rpm at 80 mph (like many other cars have) instead of the still-too-high rpms we have now. They designed the gears to compensate primarily for the lack of low-end torque and secondarily for the general lack of torque. We get more noise and worse fuel economy as a result.
The HP is useless off the track or below 100 mph. The lack of torque shows up every single time I drive the car.
If the numbers were reversed, we could also have a 7th gear ratio that resulted in 2,000 rpm at 80 mph (like many other cars have) instead of the still-too-high rpms we have now. They designed the gears to compensate primarily for the lack of low-end torque and secondarily for the general lack of torque. We get more noise and worse fuel economy as a result.
04-28-2010, 04:56 PM
#69
Love the uneducated comments in this thread.
Torque is a direct function of displacement in a naturally aspirated 4 stroke gasoline engine. Bigger engine = more torque. 70-80 ft/lbs of torque per liter of displacement.
Mustang V6? check.
Mustang V8? Check.
Corvette? Check.
Z06? Check.
Ferrari Enzo? Check.
Porsche Boxter? Check.
F1 car? Check.
Honda Civic? Check.
370Z? Check.
The only way to add torque is to add displacement (or artificial displacement via Forced Induction, or less realistically, improving volumetric efficiency).
HP is a function of torque. Take a given level of torque(work), and multiply with a time factor (the M in RPM), and you get horsepower (work done over time). Double the RPM while keeping torque constant, and you get double the HP (double the work over time).
Those "hp = torque" engines tend to have low redlines. Ever notice that?
Also, everyone tends to quote engine torque numbers, but the real enthusiasts know that torque to the wheels is what really matters. Aggressive gearing can create additional wheel torque. Alternatively taller gearing can be used to alleviate traction issues from too much power output at low RPMS (refer to any ultra high performance car; their 1st gear is likely close to your second).
Most people complain S2000's have low torque. Did you know they have a 1.206 secondary reduction and a 4.1 final reduction? That's a LOT of mechanical torque gained to the wheels.
Many domestics offer a more aggressive final drive from the factory for this exact reason: It makes the car faster.
Torque is a direct function of displacement in a naturally aspirated 4 stroke gasoline engine. Bigger engine = more torque. 70-80 ft/lbs of torque per liter of displacement.
Mustang V6? check.
Mustang V8? Check.
Corvette? Check.
Z06? Check.
Ferrari Enzo? Check.
Porsche Boxter? Check.
F1 car? Check.
Honda Civic? Check.
370Z? Check.
The only way to add torque is to add displacement (or artificial displacement via Forced Induction, or less realistically, improving volumetric efficiency).
HP is a function of torque. Take a given level of torque(work), and multiply with a time factor (the M in RPM), and you get horsepower (work done over time). Double the RPM while keeping torque constant, and you get double the HP (double the work over time).
Those "hp = torque" engines tend to have low redlines. Ever notice that?
Also, everyone tends to quote engine torque numbers, but the real enthusiasts know that torque to the wheels is what really matters. Aggressive gearing can create additional wheel torque. Alternatively taller gearing can be used to alleviate traction issues from too much power output at low RPMS (refer to any ultra high performance car; their 1st gear is likely close to your second).
Most people complain S2000's have low torque. Did you know they have a 1.206 secondary reduction and a 4.1 final reduction? That's a LOT of mechanical torque gained to the wheels.
Many domestics offer a more aggressive final drive from the factory for this exact reason: It makes the car faster.
04-28-2010, 05:18 PM
#70
That's not really a fair comparison, but i get your point. Your 335i has a flatter TQ curve across a wider band and starts at a lower rpm than the G37. A byproduct of FI. If your 335 had the same peak TQ as the G37, it would still feel peppier than the G because of where the power is in the rpm range.
04-28-2010, 06:23 PM
#71
Yes indeed, not a fair comparison because of the FI. I knew that before posting, but to answer the question, yes I wished the G37 gained TQ. You make a great point on the flat TQ curve of the 335i.
Physics aside, I wished the G37 developed more TQ and approached the "peppiness" of the 335i.
Physics aside, I wished the G37 developed more TQ and approached the "peppiness" of the 335i.
That's not really a fair comparison, but i get your point. Your 335i has a flatter TQ curve across a wider band and starts at a lower rpm than the G37. A byproduct of FI. If your 335 had the same peak TQ as the G37, it would still feel peppier than the G because of where the power is in the rpm range.
04-29-2010, 12:39 AM
#72
Registered User
so? they're still slow as sh*t below 6K rpms....i think people are talking more about power on tap rather than torque itself.
04-29-2010, 01:08 AM
#73
I find this thread a bit funny. If everyone wanted more torque why not go with the 335i, GTO 6.0, Challenger SRT-8, Camaro SS, New Mustang 5.0, ISF, CTS-V 2nd gen or 1st gen. Or get FI for you G.
The G37 is a great value for what you get. Sporty ride, nice power, luxury, and dead sexy looks. Sorry, torque not included.
The G37 is a great value for what you get. Sporty ride, nice power, luxury, and dead sexy looks. Sorry, torque not included.
04-29-2010, 09:10 AM
#74
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Love the uneducated comments in this thread.
Torque is a direct function of displacement in a naturally aspirated 4 stroke gasoline engine.
The only way to add torque is to add displacement (or artificial displacement via Forced Induction, or less realistically, improving volumetric efficiency).
Torque is a direct function of displacement in a naturally aspirated 4 stroke gasoline engine.
The only way to add torque is to add displacement (or artificial displacement via Forced Induction, or less realistically, improving volumetric efficiency).
04-29-2010, 12:42 PM
#75
Sorry we are all so uneducated here, but you make my point in your comments. Twice in fact. Yes, torque is related to displacement and Infiniti increased the displacement of the G from 3.5 to 3.7 liters but chose to raise the redline and add horsepower instead of torque. I had been thinking lately that maybe I would have rather they left the hp at 306 and added 10-15 lbs/ft of torque instead, and was just wondering if anyone else felt the same, that's all.