350Zed

You need to go buy a Camaro... it'll match nicely with your mullet.

With car packaging changing to advance safety and emissions requirements, smaller engines producing more power is a necessary advancement direction. Plus, Nissan is getting a lot of mileage (no pun intended) out of using the same basic VQ35 engine across multiple models, so it only makes sense for them to use the same basic engineering in the high-end models but with better components to allow higher tolerences and therefore higher power output.

[My apologies in advance for all the big words, Crazi4Speed... I basically said "Engines smaller, power good."]

vt_maverick

iTrader: (1)

Well i guess you learn something everyday!

derek

hp = torque x rpm; a "linear" or direct relationship. However, vt, you are right that in engine tuning, sometimes it's a matter of robbing peter to pay paul. To get the extra rpm from our engines, flow and mapping are changed, resulting in a loss of max torque (not area under the curve from idle to redline), but the offset yields a higher max hp (though again, probably not much in it as far as area under the curve is concerned).

If an engine maker can in fact increase the area under the curve in a meaningful way, while still maintaining useability, or driveability, then they have achieved something. This is exactly why DI has become so popular- no loss of bottom end for a gain in the middle or on top, thus driveability is maintained. In fact the Germans have almost 'trademarked" flat torque curves- instead of a torque max at a specific rpm, you'll see it listed as something like "258 lb-ft @ 2,400–5,000 rpm" (cut and paste from Mercedes C350 specs.)

derek

ouch, stomach...hurts....tears...can't see screen-blurry....LMAO

BoostedIS300

+ rep for you asiannautica
explained that very well and have been correct this entire time asianautica

tekknikal

as far as tunability goes i dont think the upcoming G will match the BMW 335.

The new VQ does not use direct injection. It does not spin all that high.The compression is higher, but still not as high as say the is350. The construction may be very good on it, but its not really exotic. I really dont expect the overall potential to be that much greater than the VQ seen in 2003.

All isnt lost because the original VQ was able to do 330crank hp to begin with. Nissan just chose to never do it. Tuners have been able to get over 290wheel horsepower, or over 340 crank horsepower.

So while the new VQ design wont necessarily up that by very much (i still expect it to be very difficult to pass 300whp), the new VQ will go about it in a smoother and little more refined way.

The new 335 on the other hand is a different story. Twin Turbo out the box. If the internals are at all strong - and they probably are- BMW will not lose a horespower fight in this segment if they dont want to. OUt the box 300hp is no problem. It would probably be nothing for BMW to step that up to 330hp, something its competition cant do.

Then again, Nissan will likely be using the GTR to get the tuner's attention, so I doubt they care. The G was never intended to be the modder's choice. Where it would matter is the Z. But that car has less competition. If they keep the price well below $30k and deliver this engine in a lighter chassis, they'll be ok, at least until everyone else (Honda, Toyota, Dodge, etc) joins the segment...

jawjaw

One thing nobody has mentioned is cost. Adding exotic materials and technology increases cost. BMW, Lexus, and Porsche are able to get higher hp out of a 6 cyl but at a much higher cost. Tuners are able to get decent results but again, at a high cost and a lot of man hours. Increasing the engine size is an easy way to get more power but that will decrease mpg. Infiniti already needs to focus a lot of resources in improving the interior quality so I would expect anything to much more from a NA 3.5L motor.

derek

You make a good point regarding potential cost being one of the compromises faced, but I'm curious to know where you arrived at the notion that these other engines are "at a much higher cost". It's not like the VQ is an iron block pushrod engine with a 5K redline, here. The Rev-up version has variable valve timing both suck and blow, and some pretty nifty materials and coatings, etc. Like VTEC (by whatever name), and subsequent addition to the same technology to exhaust side of the house, the addition of DI will become more commonplace over time, and as for getting some extra revs to make power, the changes already exist in house- Ti valves, for example are found on the 4.5L Nissan V8 (M45 etc). Having the coupe concept showing a 7500 rpm redline is no accident on the part of the company. You can be sure that the next gen will indeed have at least 7.5K available on the tach, otherwise the media and customers will flash those press photos and scream bloody murder. The VQ has plenty of development left in it. For example, Nissan has been quoted as saying that it can, NA and with the current displacement, make 500 hp for JGTC racing.

True, we won't see that for the street, but seeing a bit of it is likely. Like the other companies, it's HUFL that Nissan is going to surrender in the race for more power.

Cheers,
D

asianautica

The current VQ is not like VTEC. VTEC/VVL/VVTL-i/VANNOS/etc. are form of variable valve lift. Which mean, the lift changes depending on the RPM. Some have 1 switch point, like VTEC/VVTL-i, some have 2, like VVL, and some have cam phasing, which equate to infinite variable lift, which is VANNOS. The VQ just have variable valve TIMING. Those engine that have variable lift all have variable timing as well. The key different is variable lift. We don't know if this new VQ will have variable lift or not. We'll just have to wait and see.

I highly doubt Nissan can get 500HP out of the 3.5L V6 and stay N/A. Their GT500 car in JGTC is the VQ30DETT, which is, twin turbo if you can decipher the engine code. I truly hope that since the GT-R will also use a VQ variant, they will create a 335 or M3 competitor w/ a detuned engine from the GT-R.

350Zed

Nissan is supercharging the VQ35DE for use in the 350Z GT-S. It will reportedly make about 400bhp (380PS).

This will definitely put the 350Z in the performance range of the M3, and well past the 335i expectations.

Source:
http://www.worldcarfans.com/news.cfm...-gt-s-concepts

derek

Asianautica,
Seems you've misread twice. Recommend you reread the post, this time carefully.

Didn't say that we had VTEC or valve lift, in fact, purposely chose not to, knowing- rather I said like it and others, DI will become more commonplace. Second, didn't say that Nissan was using such an engine in racing, said that they had made such a claim (pretty sure that 500 hp NA claim was made in an R&T mini-test of the long nose fairlady, but cannot find the back issue to confirm, my apologies).

Since insurance companies are quite unkind to words and phrases like turbo, and V-8, I'm okay having a car with a normally aspirated six- less weight burden, less bits.

Language- "say what you mean, mean what you say".

Cheers,
Derek

asianautica

Sorry for misunderstanding your post. I reread it, and it still sound like you're trying to say the rev-up engine is like VTEC. If that's not what you meant, then fine, I was just saying that it's nothing like the main point of VTEC, which is variable lift. I agree, DI will probably be more common place, since it'll make the engine more power and comsume less gas at the same time. With DI, you're not sacrificing low end tq like technology similar to VTEC either.

In regards to the 500HP N/A 3.5L V6, I doubt Nissan has made that claim, but I could be wrong. Getting 500HP out of a 3.5L and still make it reliable and driveable in any other place besides the race track is nearly impossible. Once again, I misunderstood you. I reread it again, but it still sounds like you're trying to say Nissan made a claim they can get 500HP N/A out of the VQ35DE. There's really no reason for them to make that claim unless they're planning to do it. If they are, then why develope the GTR w/TT for both track and street? 500HP out of 3.5L is 143HP/L. Even a small I4 like the S2k is having a hard time hitting 120-130HP/L reliably, much less a large engine like the VQ. Just look at the Porsche 3.8L in the GT3, I think they got around 410-420HP. That car cost quite a bit and they still can't get past 115HP/L.

If I remember correctly, the long nose Z didn't have too much power upgrade, but more of aero upgrade to increase its top speed. I agree with you that Turbo/V8 and high HP # does make it more expensive to insure. That's why I would rather have a 280HP car that weight 2800lb. I think even if it's N/A and 3.5L V6, if it make 500HP, insurance will still be sky high. I would think they care more about HP than how that power is achieved. Also, there are many other factor that affect insurance more than HP/Turbo/V8, such as driving record, its ranking on most stolen list and the zip code it resides in.

derek

Nissan's longnose Z is used for racing- the body thing is just an aero pkg for racing regs and hi-spd stability. Getting those hp/L numbers from a racing engine would not be a press. With those numbers, it would not be for production, either. Not sure if I'd believe sport compact as a source as to what the next GTR will have for an engine. I think the jury is still out on that one. Not sure where the idea that they would develop the GTR engine for racing came from either. According to real sources- Nissan- the handling is being done by Lotus, and engine by Cosworth, for the upcoming GTR. Not sure we'll see that engine for racing. Cosworth doesn't spend much time in Asia. Besides, Nissan has been doing just fine in racing without external influence.

It was a 2003 article from R&T where Nissan was quoted, so I'm still searching for it (moved half way across the country last year and still can't find a thing). If I had to guess, taking away restrictions in and out, and revving the engine into the 9s would yield that result.

As for the insurance thing, check with a broker. Turbo and V8 are swear words. My buddy was paying more for an old turbo MX6 with 134 hp than I was with my new G coupe!

Cheers,
D

SuperGee

Trying to get up to speed.

So is the 2nd Gen VQ slated for the 2008 G35?

Also, have there been any major VQ changes since 2003?

Torque and HP ... can't have HP without torque at RPMs. The more torque you can make at any given engine RPM will result in more HP at that engine RPM. That's why more displacement yields HP easily ... because the displacement makes for more torque and hence HP. Of course FI increases torque tremendously because you’re force feeding the engine more air/fuel to explode.

We all know that the more force you can get from the exploding air/fuel mixture to push down the piston the more torque you get. That force translates into torque on the crankshaft, and if that torque is maintained at some RPM then that's the definition of HP -- thank Mr. Watt.

SuperGee

I got a quote from my insurance company and a new G35 coupe would cost me about $25 more per year with the same coverages as my 405 HP (V8) 2002 Z06 Vette. Kind of surprised me since the Vette is a 2 seater and the G35 is a 4 seater.