GTM Performance Engineering: VQ37VHR Twin Supercharger System
Very interesting how different information is coming out from both sides. I would like to know more about the short comings of both sides. Also if it was supposed to be installed by Z Car when did GTM end up with the car and when was it decided to do a twin supercharger. From what I see is that making a new system and installing it, working out the kinks and problems road test etc... everyone who has done a custom setup like an FI system they know problems come up, and if Sam said it would be done in a certain realistic timeframe it should be expected to be done. In all this there is a lot of information missing from my point of view
The only thing that bugs me is the other people jumping in claiming Gtm sucks now. Granted they're not the greatest to deal with, no need to speak up on this thread. U had ur chance to write a detailed thread on ur situation with Gtm but never did. R u guys growing a set of ***** from the customer that decided to speak up and say sumthin? You guys r the disappointment for not informing this community when u had the chance to do so. As they say u should "forever hold ur peace" at this point now.
And yes unfortunately mods do clean up threads when it pertains to paying vendors. That's how it'll always be, they pay the guys to keep this website running unfortunately. But the more people speak up and inform the community the better someone will see it before it gets swept under the rug and then u can make a good decision from that point on.
And yes unfortunately mods do clean up threads when it pertains to paying vendors. That's how it'll always be, they pay the guys to keep this website running unfortunately. But the more people speak up and inform the community the better someone will see it before it gets swept under the rug and then u can make a good decision from that point on.
Registered User
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 554
Likes: 56
From: Norwalk, CT
^^^ Really? You ought to drive one someday.
In hindsight, I am dead certain Sam, Mike, and GTM wished they'd used their own car as test mule. The attractiveness of submitting this to a client bit them hard.
Although I sympathize with the client, and it probably could have been handled better, the sheer amount of prior GTM projects and parts out there running well, and with satisfied owners WAY overshadows this misfortune.
I'm quite satisfied with my GTM project. Now. Not all of it (exhaust = not for me). There has been delays and overages in every arena, not exclusive to GTM. But, as a past shop owner, I know that 'things happen'.
Will McCormick, I wish you better. Sam@GTM, I wish you better. Sigh.
Coop
In hindsight, I am dead certain Sam, Mike, and GTM wished they'd used their own car as test mule. The attractiveness of submitting this to a client bit them hard.
Although I sympathize with the client, and it probably could have been handled better, the sheer amount of prior GTM projects and parts out there running well, and with satisfied owners WAY overshadows this misfortune.
I'm quite satisfied with my GTM project. Now. Not all of it (exhaust = not for me). There has been delays and overages in every arena, not exclusive to GTM. But, as a past shop owner, I know that 'things happen'.
Will McCormick, I wish you better. Sam@GTM, I wish you better. Sigh.
Coop
But I will say this... How Sam handled this issue does fall in line with my experience with them while I too was considering FI. I bugged the hell out of them with several questions and they did present me with several option and more than reasonable prices and options. If I ever went with boost, I wouldn't go anywhere else.
It's unfortunate that things played out this way. Hope the car owners gets his car back to stock and the money that is rightfully is. Hope that GTM completes this project so the community can see what this kit is truly capable of and offers another option for boosting.
I've had my supercharger on for 2 years. I was a test mule for them. The ecu for the convertible wasnt even cracked by uprev yet, but I knew that and was willing to wait. Did Sam keep me up to date, maybe not everyday like i would like, but this is the real world. I'm not his only customer. I'm a happy customer and have been daily driving my car for the 2 years with it on since i had 500 miles on my G. Now at 21,000.
I figure I was the only one who was affected with bad luck from GTM. I was stationed at Camp Pendleton with 2/4, and took my car to GTM before I got out and left for Texas. I don't know but he said something along those lines too. A month should be fine, but he ran into few problems here and there. I figure it be fine since the work was being operated in house at GTM. Should be flawless right? I got the car back with few problems. Of course I contacted Sam back and forth, and he made it sound like I ****ered up the car. I kept telling him I'll ship the car back since they touched it, and it's there specialty. But man I had problems ranging from ALL sorts of problems. It could be problems from driving on the highway and everything just shuts off. I turn on the car and it dies instantly. Codes would just appear and make the car go into limp mode, etc. Also it took almost a year getting my UpRev cable. But all in all I was being patient, and he was helping with minimum effort. This **** pissed me off to the certain point where I bought another car, and just drove that around. Almost a year and half later I've decided to take the car to a shop here in Dallas. The cars been sitting in the garage after trying so many roms from Sam. One rom would disable my cruise control, another would make the car sputter like a retard on crack, and the other would just simply do nothing.
Now this is the part where I was mind ****ed. I took it to a well respected shop here in Dallas. T1. They were laid back and cool, and I told Tony about the problem. We started talking and the tuner guy got involved. They did some stuff and basically said this kit is ****. That's mind **** number one. I said "Get the **** out, they specialize in these motors." I got the stink eye from everyone at the shop. They flat out said I needed a tune, cause the tune from the initial tune from GTM was a complete fail, and all the ones following up through email. Mind **** number 2. So T1 called UpRev in Austin, and we started talking. Omar got involved at UpRev and the owner. I forget his name. So out of anger I threw my G37 back in the garage and said, "**** it all." So several months roll by and I went down to UpRev in Austin. I talked to them about everything. Left the car at UpRev for a month. Why a month? Cause they were finding ALL SORTS OF PROBLEMS. Mind blown and lost all faith from GTM. So I spent nearly 2200 fixing all the problems, and a tune. Car ran flawlessly. The car had many leaks. Some of the stuff was poorly welded, **** was rubbing all over the place, and they were just going off with a list of problems. So before picking up the car I had a buddy from Tay's Automotive here in Dallas be my liaison to see if UpRev was just saying stuff to earn an extra buck. Nope, it turns out it was legit and they both said GTM kits are poor quality stuff. Mind ****ered times 10000 now.
I had fun with the kit at TX2K12. But the quality of the kit overall is poor. After looking at the manifolds the casting was done poorly. I have pictures of it but I kept everything to myself since its not my place to say anything, and everyone here seems to praise GTM like gods. But after meeting a handful of individuals in Southern Cali and here in Dallas, this kit is something to reckon with.
The car was fun minus all the problems, and then later realizing this is one of those shops as Sam always states, "the best bang for your buck." Simply means you get what you paid for. And apparently I paid for crap. But that's just me gentlemen, and the few, the proud, and the people who got screwed.
They probably have a different story, but I have pictures to prove my mind ****ed experience.
Sorry about your bad experience. Sucks but I hear you loud and clear.
Now this is the part where I was mind ****ed. I took it to a well respected shop here in Dallas. T1. They were laid back and cool, and I told Tony about the problem. We started talking and the tuner guy got involved. They did some stuff and basically said this kit is ****. That's mind **** number one. I said "Get the **** out, they specialize in these motors." I got the stink eye from everyone at the shop. They flat out said I needed a tune, cause the tune from the initial tune from GTM was a complete fail, and all the ones following up through email. Mind **** number 2. So T1 called UpRev in Austin, and we started talking. Omar got involved at UpRev and the owner. I forget his name. So out of anger I threw my G37 back in the garage and said, "**** it all." So several months roll by and I went down to UpRev in Austin. I talked to them about everything. Left the car at UpRev for a month. Why a month? Cause they were finding ALL SORTS OF PROBLEMS. Mind blown and lost all faith from GTM. So I spent nearly 2200 fixing all the problems, and a tune. Car ran flawlessly. The car had many leaks. Some of the stuff was poorly welded, **** was rubbing all over the place, and they were just going off with a list of problems. So before picking up the car I had a buddy from Tay's Automotive here in Dallas be my liaison to see if UpRev was just saying stuff to earn an extra buck. Nope, it turns out it was legit and they both said GTM kits are poor quality stuff. Mind ****ered times 10000 now.
I had fun with the kit at TX2K12. But the quality of the kit overall is poor. After looking at the manifolds the casting was done poorly. I have pictures of it but I kept everything to myself since its not my place to say anything, and everyone here seems to praise GTM like gods. But after meeting a handful of individuals in Southern Cali and here in Dallas, this kit is something to reckon with.
The car was fun minus all the problems, and then later realizing this is one of those shops as Sam always states, "the best bang for your buck." Simply means you get what you paid for. And apparently I paid for crap. But that's just me gentlemen, and the few, the proud, and the people who got screwed.
They probably have a different story, but I have pictures to prove my mind ****ed experience.
Sorry about your bad experience. Sucks but I hear you loud and clear.
Usually, when someone installs something as significant or complicated as a Twin Turbo Kit, and there's an issue, the normal thing to do is to call us to let us know. While you did do that, it is impossible to fix the car over the phone or remotely. The car needs to go to a professional to address the issue. What I would have expected then is for you to call me up and to say "you guys missed this, or f'ed up that and this is what needs to be done to fix it". At that point, I could have done something to correct any wrong that we might have done.
I told you that you need to have someone look at it and it seemed to me to be an electrical issue, especially with some of the grounding issues we discovered when we were working on your car and brought to your attention. I specifically told you that you need to replace your battery cables. When we attempted to jump your car, there was so much corrosion on your battery terminals, that it wouldn't even jump. They needed to be replaced as they were beyond salvageable by cleaning.
When we were going back and forth, things just weren't adding up and weren't making sense. If a car is driving along and suddenly shuts off with no codes, there is something wrong electrically. Tunes don't just go bad. Mechanical issues don't just come and go (like vacuum leaks). If there were any leaks on the car, the car would have the issue all the time not just driving along on the freeway.
At this point, however, it's irrelevant. This is the first time that I heard that you went and spent $2200 to fix all sorts of problems. If I received any type of service from anyone and I had to go and get someone else to fix and repair that service, I would at least let them know and give them the chance to do something about it. I would let them know: "You're not as good as you think you are and here's what you missed." Why didn't you do that? If something had been on our end, we would have handled it. We are human beings working on cars and can make a mistake. It's how we handle it that defines who we are, but you never gave us that chance and instead choose to bash us here.
After me for the first time hearing about you fixing our "mess", the logical thing for me to do is to contact UpRev and so I shot them an e-mail. My e-mail to them states there is a G37 kit you guys fixed that had multiple problems with our parts and/or installation. Can you tell me what was wrong with it and what did you guys do to correct the problem? To my astonishment, it turns out that the money you spent with UpRev had nothing to do with any mistakes on our end. At least the invoice doesn't reflect that. Here's a copy of UpRev's invoice for your convenience and for everyone to see:
Just in case you can't see the image, it says that for $2,053.11 was simply for them to test for intake/exhaust leaks, install a boost controller, 1000cc/min injectors and to tune the car.
Sam
The only thing that bugs me is the other people jumping in claiming Gtm sucks now. Granted they're not the greatest to deal with, no need to speak up on this thread. U had ur chance to write a detailed thread on ur situation with Gtm but never did. R u guys growing a set of ***** from the customer that decided to speak up and say sumthin? You guys r the disappointment for not informing this community when u had the chance to do so. As they say u should "forever hold ur peace" at this point now.
And yes unfortunately mods do clean up threads when it pertains to paying vendors. That's how it'll always be, they pay the guys to keep this website running unfortunately. But the more people speak up and inform the community the better someone will see it before it gets swept under the rug and then u can make a good decision from that point on.
And yes unfortunately mods do clean up threads when it pertains to paying vendors. That's how it'll always be, they pay the guys to keep this website running unfortunately. But the more people speak up and inform the community the better someone will see it before it gets swept under the rug and then u can make a good decision from that point on.
We are far from perfect and we know that there is a lot of improvements to be made. This is part of growing and blazing new trails. That said, we are very approachable and if there is something on our end we are here to get it taken care of.
As far as all this "swept under the rug" talk, let me be very clear about something. We don't run and hide when bad things happen. We man up and handle our business. There is a line, however, and that line is when someone posts personal attacks and resorts to name calling when they fail to communicate like an adult. Look at the forum rules, and you'll understand what I mean. If a person is incapable of handling themselves like an adult, then they don't belong on a public forum. That's the bottom line. The same goes for flame wars. Forum moderators don't tolerate that kind of behavior and it has nothing to do with "getting swept under the rug": it has everything to do with having a forum for members to have discussions on.
For people to hop into this thread and start bashing like you mentioned is just like you said. The problem we have is when people come in and start making up stories like this guy with the UpRev invoice. It's a bunch of B.S. and the invoice shows that...the money he paid was for increasing his performance, not fixing a screw up like he makes it sound.
Sam
Registered User
Joined: Feb 2012
Posts: 20
Likes: 0
From: Woodside, CA
It was clear to us again that he was working a manipulative angle when he started posting and ranting about disappointing results. We kept a professional attitude and went back on the dyno with a different pulley configuration when we ran into a timing code issue. As soon as that happened, we posted the following update as well as sent him an e-mail and called him in regards to the issue:
We had a conversation with him about the issue. Throughout the conversation, he did not act upset or angry and simply said "Please keep me posted". When he mentioned that he lost out on $300 for airfare, I told him that I would compensate him by transporting his car to him at our expense. The next day he sent an e-mail that we received on Monday morning that stated the following:
Again, Mr. McCormick continues to attempt to bully and manipulate us into giving him whatever he wants. Now, he wants us to pay him $6,000 on top of a refund? What civil and criminal laws have we broken?
In response, this is what we wrote to him:
In response, this is what he wrote:
So, in essence, Mr. McCormick is trying to extort $6,000 from us to "be made whole". What does that mean exactly?
It doesn't end there, the unreasonable requests continue.
To this hour, the police have yet to show up.
In regards to the whole refund issue, we have every intention of refunding his money after our parts are removed from his car. Just like a refund will not be issued until parts have been received, the parts are technically on his property (car) and until those parts are no longer on his property, we will not refund the money. Once they are removed from his property, the money will be refunded. Simple as that.
Will, with all the evidence that we have provided, we have shown without a shadow of a doubt that it is you that has a hard time telling the truth.
As far as us "price gouging" as you say, we provided you with not one, but four different estimates to choose from, and even then you still had a fifth option: do nothing.
As far as our cash flow is concerned, why would I discuss such a subject with someone like you? Really, if a company had a cash flow issue, they wouldn't refund $5,000 as quickly as we did, nor when you decided to cancel did we try to convince you to keep on with the project and said OK and proceeded to take the parts off your car.
Another example of how deceiving and willing you are to say whatever you want to make a false assertion. Last time I checked on the forum, we have put out more cars than anyone else out there. We pretty much dominate the forced induction market for a reason. For you to make the statement that "this is the norm and not the exception" is far from the truth. What is not normal, is you.
I suggest you show this documentation to your attorney, I'm sure he'll tell you that you are lucky you are getting your money back.
Sam
We had a conversation with him about the issue. Throughout the conversation, he did not act upset or angry and simply said "Please keep me posted". When he mentioned that he lost out on $300 for airfare, I told him that I would compensate him by transporting his car to him at our expense. The next day he sent an e-mail that we received on Monday morning that stated the following:
Again, Mr. McCormick continues to attempt to bully and manipulate us into giving him whatever he wants. Now, he wants us to pay him $6,000 on top of a refund? What civil and criminal laws have we broken?
In response, this is what we wrote to him:
In response, this is what he wrote:
So, in essence, Mr. McCormick is trying to extort $6,000 from us to "be made whole". What does that mean exactly?
It doesn't end there, the unreasonable requests continue.
To this hour, the police have yet to show up.
In regards to the whole refund issue, we have every intention of refunding his money after our parts are removed from his car. Just like a refund will not be issued until parts have been received, the parts are technically on his property (car) and until those parts are no longer on his property, we will not refund the money. Once they are removed from his property, the money will be refunded. Simple as that.
Will, with all the evidence that we have provided, we have shown without a shadow of a doubt that it is you that has a hard time telling the truth.
As far as us "price gouging" as you say, we provided you with not one, but four different estimates to choose from, and even then you still had a fifth option: do nothing.
As far as our cash flow is concerned, why would I discuss such a subject with someone like you? Really, if a company had a cash flow issue, they wouldn't refund $5,000 as quickly as we did, nor when you decided to cancel did we try to convince you to keep on with the project and said OK and proceeded to take the parts off your car.
Another example of how deceiving and willing you are to say whatever you want to make a false assertion. Last time I checked on the forum, we have put out more cars than anyone else out there. We pretty much dominate the forced induction market for a reason. For you to make the statement that "this is the norm and not the exception" is far from the truth. What is not normal, is you.
I suggest you show this documentation to your attorney, I'm sure he'll tell you that you are lucky you are getting your money back.
Sam
I am not going to go on and on for pages with you. I do apologize for getting the date of receipt wrong for my car, and should have checked. You are correct that the car was delivered in early April and not early March. I also went back and forth on what kit I wanted BEFORE I shipped my car to you. You contacted me in the beginning of April to ask me what my "wish list" for the car was and didn't contact me again until the end of May when you sent me a $30,000 invoice (attached). However, please explain these questions:
1. Why would I send you a car in April to sit there before you even sent me an invoice for labor or the additional cost of the kit (that you didn't disclose till May 23rd) ? The answer is: I was led to believe that the installation was free and the car was being worked on and the kit was ready by the time the car was there.
2. Why did you tell me the car would be done on June 7th (see attached PDF)? This is in line with you telling me the car would be done at the end of April when it was first shipped out.
3. If you are in the right, why did you refund $5,000 to me? Surely you could have found another person willing to jump on this.
4. In what state is it legal to waive sales tax? Can you show proof that you paid sales tax on this order?
5. Why would I have wanted a twin supercharger if other options provided more power for less cost and risk?
6. If you didn't express cash-flow issues why did you ask me if you could process my initial refund of $5000 several days in the future of the agreement for refund that we made?
7. Why am I at the mercy of your uninstall to get a refund now? You have the car and the parts correct? Can I drive the car?
8. Why wasn't the car ready on Sept. 7th with either the twin SC or twin turbo per the terms YOU agreed to? The reason I didn't have plans to be there was because I had intel that the car was not close to being ready.
9. Do you know what the daily loss-of-use rate is in CA?
10. Do you know what extortion really is?
11. Since June 7th, what contacts have you made with me to update me?
12. How could you have done any work to the car by June 7th when the kit wasn't ready until months later?
13. Why was my quote so much higher than the price you quoted on FB?
I have had work done on cars and custom bikes built before - sometimes taking over a year. I know that projects often run late. However, I have never been outright lied to, ripped off, jerked around, and neglected in this manner. This whole situation could have been smooth and enjoyable with clear communication, honesty, and correctly set expectations. Now it is a complete mess.
All - I am not trying to "extort" money or anything else from Sam. I had loss of use of my daily driver due to deception, miscommunication, and project mismanagement. The daily loss-of-use rate in CA is $50 per day. I requested $6,000 which was less than what I am entitled to. I have been paying for the car, as well as insuring it while it was there. I was in a rental car for 2 months while I waited for this car to be done based on the timeline that was set forth by Sam. I cancelled the project because the terms of our agreement had been breeched and a complete lack of faith that it would ever get done and/or work well. I have had a slew of PMs coming my way as well as chance encounters telling me of their terrible experiences with GTM.
Last edited by spawn350; Sep 26, 2012 at 12:33 AM.