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Forced Induction For Noobies

Old 01-02-2010, 11:56 PM
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G37Rider92649
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Post Forced Induction For Noobies

This post has helped many members from my350z and g35driver and I would like to carry it on over here, thank you to original forum member SlideFox for creating the original post. MODS PLEASE PLEASE STICKY THIS. I updated a few things and promise to keep this thread updated and keep adding NON-BIASED info constantly over the years!


So, lately we have been seeing a lot of noobs coming on to the forum; asking the same questions over and over. As much as we love to flame them and tell them to use the damn search; they are still noobs. So I felt I would take it upon myself to write-up some info for everyone to read, and hopefully it will alleviate more “Which turbo kit is better” threads, and “I’m thinking of going F/I and I need some help” threads. If anyone sees something that needs to be changed please let me know. Thanks!

The Motors:

VQ35DE:

The VQ35DE motors as already been proven to be a pretty stout motor. A Stock motors with any type of forced induction is usually good to around 400-420whp, before you run into longevity issues. The week link in the VQ35DE motors is the stock connecting rods. I have seen people bend them trying to make over 420+whp for an extended period of time. Now granted, there are people that have made more power with the stock rods, but as I said.... you start running into the "How long is it going to last" questions.

The stock crank and stock sleeves have already been proven to handle 900+hp. Again, longevity and reliability are the two main points here. There is one company making 700+whp on the stock sleeves and stock crank for a very longtime now and the motor is still holding strong. Some people prefer to "Sleeve" there blocks. This is an added precaution to make sure the block last longer. Sleeves will allow you to run higher boost, and make more power reliably. If you choose to sleeve your block, do you homework and make sure you have a experienced machine shop do the work.

The stock VQ heads and cams are a thing of beauty. They flow great, and people still use them, un-altered, and are making over 700whp. There are companies out there that make a great alternative for cams. Brian Crower, JWT, Tomei, HKS just to name a few. Cams in the area of a 264 degree cam are what most people will upgrade to. Companies do make 272's, 268's, and even 280's, but the higher lobe duration you get, you will get a rougher idle.

VQ35HR:

With the success of the VQ35DE motor, Nissan decided to take the VQ motor one step further. Introducing the VQ35HR... a near identical 3.5L V6 to the DE platform, but with dual throttle bodies, beefier internals, and better engine components. The HR can easily make 450whp on a stock motor; something the DE can never amount to too (For a long period of time). If your hopes where to install a turbo kit, and some other goodies and have a 450-500whp daily monster... the HR is your platform of choice.

Nissan heard our cries of failing connecting rods of the DE platform, and gave us a much beefier setup to use. The heads were also slightly re-worked to get a few extra HP out of the HR. The limits of the stock HR motor have yet to be found. The only reason being is... a lot was learned from it's little DE brother. With the only option for F/I being Twin Turbo kits, F/I'd VQ35HR's are still fairly rare. If I had to guess... I would assume 550-575whp is going to be the failing point of the HR. Which is far beyond the capabilities of the DE.

For the brave souls out there who want to TT there HR; GTM, AAM, HKS, and Greddy have what you need.

I will be following this post with information on all the turbo kits available as well as info on fuel management options and accessories for forced induction.

Turbo 101:

So the life long question of "What's better Single or Twins". Simple answer... both. It all depends on what you’re looking to use the turbo for. Are you strictly daily driving? Do you autocross, time-attack, drag race? You have to think about what you want to use your car for.

One of the easiest ways to explain the difference between the two is...

Twins - Gives you good low-end power and great mid-range, but lacks in the top-end. This is ideal for auto-crossing and time-attack. Twins will give you better response from the dig, and exiting corners. You have really good response in the low-mid range rpm's.

Single - Lacks in the lower rpm range but is great in the mid-range and top-end. This is the "ideal" setup for drag racing where your rpm's are mainly in the mid to upper range. The term “turbo-lag” is the time it tacks for the turbo to see boost. The bigger turbo you have the more lag you will get.

Singles are sometimes preferred for daily driving. For the fact that when you cruising at low-rpm's; your car is actually seeing vacuum rather then boost. This helps with the longevity of the motor. Others prefer twins for daily driving because you have more "useable" power when cruising around town. Though with Twins, your motor will see boost more often then a single.

VQ35HR Twin Turbo Kits:


Greddy Twin Turbo Kit: The kit uses Cast Iron Exhaust Manifolds, Greddy 18G or 20G turbochargers, Twin Inlet and Outlet Intercooler, External Wastegates, High capacity Oil Pan and a Greddy E-Manage EMS that piggybacks on the OEM ECU. Greddy claims it is good for 700+ horsepower. Of course, that would come with proper engine tuning and stronger internals (I.E. Pistons and Connecting Rods).

With a proper kit, and the right supporting mods, people have made 475rwhp on a 3.5L HR @ 10psi (20G Turbos)

GTM Twin Turbo Kit:
This kit uses nothing but the highest quality of parts. Featuring Cast Ductile Iron Exhaust Manifolds And Turbine Housing, 3.5"x13"x24" Intercooler (Rated for 1000HP), Steering Coupler, Twin Garrett BB Water & Oil cooled Turbochargers w/ HKS Internal Wastegate Actuator's (Standard), and Dual Tial 50mm BOV's. Optional Tial External Wastegates are available They are releasing 4 different stages of this product. Stage 1 featuring Twin GT28RS Turbos w/ a .64 A/R (Rated for 500HP), Stage 2 featuring Twin GT28RS Turbos w/ a .86 A/R (Rated for 700HP), Stage 3 features Twin GT3071 Turbos w/ a .64 A/R (Rated for 900HP), and Stage 4 features Twin GT3071 Turbos w/ a .86 A/R (Rated for 1000HP).

With a proper kit, and the right supporting mods, people have made 467rwhp on a 3.5L HR @ 9.5psi (GTM Stage 1 Kit) (BEST CHOICE RIGHT NOW)

AAM Twin Turbo Kit: The Stage 1 kit is designed to support up to approx 550hp at the motor. AAM also has a Stage 2 and Stage 3 kit in development to support upwards of 800+hp. AAM's kits are unique in a sense that one can begin with an AAM Competition Stage 1 Twin Turbo Kit, and in the future, can easily upgrade to the Stage 2 and Stage 3 kit if one has the desire for a significant power increase (nearly all other kits on the market are not upgradeable, you have to sell the kit and start over if you decide down the road you want more power).


VQHR Supercharger Kits


GTM Rotrex Supercharger - GTM supercharger system will be utilizing the Rotrex C38 supercharger, The Key to the Rotrex supercharger's unique compactness, efficiency, low noise and reliability is its state of the art traction drive technology.

Great speeds and low noise are just some of the advantages of traction drives over traditional gear transmissions. Traction drives transmit power through friction forces between its rolling elements.

The Rotrex patented traction drive uses an elastic annulus with a small pre-span to secure contact between the roller planets and the sun shaft with a reasonable force. The patented "ramp effect" increases efficiency and reliability in the transmission by regulating the torque transfer capability on demand through self-adjusting planet geometry.

To enhance performance, the Rotrex traction drive uses a special traction fluid. These fluids are a new family of synthetic hydrocarbon oils and greases offering a series of unique performance advantages. Developed specially for its use in Rotrex superchargers, the SX100 momentarily increases viscosity under high surface pressure, enhancing the traction drive performance by securing the optimum friction between rolling elements while cooling and protecting the system.

This traction drive combined with the latest technology in centrifugal compression, characterized by high adiabatic efficiency and low noise, gives Rotrex superchargers an exceptional competitive edge over any other forced induction solution.

The GTM Supercharger Will Have three different stages to offer

Stage one will come with C38-61 Trim up to 550 HP
Stage two will come with C38-71 trim up to 590 HP
Sage three will come with C38-81 trim up to 630 HP


Last edited by G37Rider92649; 01-03-2010 at 06:26 AM.
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Old 01-02-2010, 11:56 PM
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Accessories/Supporting Mods:

Accessories and supporting mods are usually pretty important depending on the application. You can get carried away with accessories when comes to a forced inducted vehicle. These items include

- Gauges
- Trans/Oil Coolers
- Fuel Accessories
- Drivetrain Accessories
- Turbo Timers
- Boost Controllers
- Methanol/Water Injection

Most of these items are not needed, but aid in the longevity of your vehicle.

Gauges: Probably the most basic of accessories when it comes to a forced induction vehicle. Wideband Gauges, Oil Temp, Oil Pressure, Water Temp, Water Pressure, EGT, Fuel Pressure are just a few of the things you can motor with gauges. The “basic” gauges, IMO, are Wideband (Air/Fuel Ratio) gauge, Oil Pressure, Water Temp. Monitoring you vehicles temperatures is vital to the longevity of the motor. Oil pressure is key to keeping your motor running properly. A/F is probably the most important. By monitoring your Air/Fuel ratio you can make sure your car is running at the optimum level. High engine temps can lead to costly repairs and serious damage… just read the forced induction section!

Coolers: Coolers covers a few different things, and they all deal with heat. Radiators, Thermostats, Fans, Shrouds, Oil Coolers, Transmission Coolers, Differential coolers all aid in fighting the never ending battle of heat. Keeping your engine temperatures down is vital to a strong and long lasting motor. For those of you who autocross and time-attack, keeping temperatures down is probably one of the most important things you can do. Radiators, Thermostats, and Radiator Caps are the most common accessories for cooling. Brands like Koyo, Fluidyne, AMS, and GTM all make radiators that provide superior cooling then the stock one. When adding a radiator; upgrading your hoses is a good idea as well. A good set of Samco Hoses never hurt anyone! Thermostats and Radiator caps are used to control when the coolant starts working. Aftermarket thermostats are design to “open” at a lower operating temperature then stock, allowing your motor to run cooler.

Oil Coolers, Power Steering Coolers, Transmission Coolers, and Differential Coolers are designed to cool the fluids that keep everything running. These are usually geared more towards those who race there cars frequently, but can be used in everyday applications. Again, heat causes these fluids to “burn” in harsh applications, and these coolers help keep everything cool. Companies like Greddy, ARC, and Stillen make these products for the 350Z, but a lot of universal application from Summit Racing work well to!


Fuel Accessories: Fuel Accessories cover injectors, Fuel Rail’s, Fuel Pump’s, Multi-Pump Assemblies, and Fuel Pressure Regulators. Upgrading your fuel injectors will depend on how much power you want to make. Fuel injectors will vary in size; 380cc, 440cc, 600cc, 880cc, 1000cc injectors are available for the VQ35DE motor. Injector size will depend on application. Larger fuel rails are sometimes needed when trying to push that extra fuel to larger injectors. They will usually have larger fittings on the end to run larger fuel lines. Fuel Pump’s and Multi-Pump assemblies are a must when pushing “Big” horsepower. I simple Walbro 255lph in-tank fuel pump upgrade will help get the fuel to the engine when trying to make up to 450whp, but when you depend MORE POWER a multi-pump assembly as a good investment. Companies like CJM make an in-take fuel-pump assembly that will hold (2) fuel pumps and are usually good to over 1000+whp. Fuel pressure regulators are another tool to dial in your fuel setup. Most regulators will have a psi gauge on it telling you how much fuel pressure you have.

Sometimes you will here the term “Return Style Fuel System”. Return style fuel systems will send the fuel that goes to the fuel rail back to the fuel tank. This will allow you to run more fuel to the motor without flooding it. Return style fuel setups are a must for big HP!

Drivetrain Accessories: Drivetrain accessories include Clutch, Flywheel, Valve body Upgrade’s, Clutch packs, and differentials. Putting power to the ground is just as important as being able to make the power. I mean if you’re making 550whp and you can put it to the pavement; then what’s the point! When it comes to manual transmissions, an upgraded clutch is usually in your near future after going F/I. The stock clutch is good to roughly 350-400hp, and how you drive will depend on that! Full-Face clutch disks, puck clutches, twin-disk, triple disk; there are various products you can order depending on your application. A lightened flywheel is another accessory to add when upgrading your clutch. A lighten flywheel usually gives you better acceleration, and allows you to put more power to the wheels. Less rotational mass = more power to the ground! For you automatic guys, upgrading your valve body and clutch packs to hold more power is important when you’re adding power. Companies like SGP and GTM offer great alternatives to hold 600+whp.

Upgrading your differential is also a good thing to do when trying to put power to the ground. Some models of the 350Z come with an LSD (Limited Slip Differential) from the factory. Companies like Kaaz, Tomei, Carbonetics, Cusco all make either 1.5 way or 2.0 way LSD’s for the 350Z/G35. A 1.5 way diff means it’s fully locked during acceleration but not locked during deceleration. A 2 way LSD is fully locked all the time. No LSD = One Wheel Tire Fire!


Electronics: Electronic accessories included Boost Controllers, Turbo Timers, and Data Loggers. Boost Controllers are probably the first electronic accessory people invest in. Boost controllers allow you to change the amount of boost your motor will run from inside your vehicle. Usually with the turn of a **** or the push of a button a you instantly have more power. Now…

***IF YOU ARE TRULY NEW TO FORCED INDUCTION DO NOT BUY A BOOST CONTROLLER!!!***

I say this as a friend. Boost is addicting. It’s like crack; you can’t get enough! When you drive a boosted vehicle for the first time, you will want more power, and you WILL turn up the boost. If not done properly this can leave to blown motors and extreme carnage!

Turbo Timers are also a good investment. A turbo timer allows you to run the vehicle for a set length of time (usually 30sec to a minute depending on how long the car was on for) after you have turned the key off and exited the vehicle allowing it a few additional moments to cool the motor, and allow the fluids to flow through the motor to keep everything nicely lubricated.

Data loggers are a neat feature to have if you are into any kind of racing. They will keep track of certain parameters of the vehicle for a period of time. When you’re done you can go back and analyze the data to see what your car is doing at certain point in time. RPM, A/F Ratio, Oil Temp, Fuel Pressure, Shift Points, Knock, etc can all be logged by time or rpm.

Methanol/Water Injection: Methanol injection is a great investment when going F/I. Methanol itself is NOT a power adder, but by doing methanol injection you can increase horsepower and keep your engine temps down. Methanol, when mixed with fuel, increases the octane level of the fuel from your tank. Kind of like running an octane booster. When you try to burn a higher octane you can make more power safer and more reliably, and you get a more complete burn too. Methanol also cools the air running into the engine; lowering the engine temps, and helping to alleviate detonation. Basically, when you run methanol, you can turn the boost up more to make more power safer. Injection systems can be controlled by a number of aftermarket EMS systems or have there own independent controllers. So you can set it to come on when you see certain boost level to help make more power safer.
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Old 01-03-2010, 12:05 AM
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-saved for future information for years to come on this site-



UPDATES FOR FI: Stillen has release their latest Announcement.

Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Happy Friday all! It's teaser time!

Here's a pic of the PROTOTYPE installed system, we're working on the tuning, and it will be on the dyno as soon as the california monsoon leaves us..



Here's a teaser video of the system as well: STILLEN VQ37 Supercharger Teaser

And here is the reason we weren't driving the G37 today: STILLEN Shop: Hailing

This is not the final kit, the tubes will be polished, etc etc.. but it's running, and we're finalizing everything quickly.



.

This is GTM's Teaser pic for their ROTREX SC!!!


Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I know that we have engineered and produced a superior system to any other system on the market. Let me say this: it is years ahead and it is so hard not post pics right now.

We are in the process of taking pics of the kit on and off the car with all its individual components. After that the kit is going back on the car to get tuned. Then we'll start taking in house installs

Here are few pics anyway just to show where everything is.

Sam









Last edited by G37Rider92649; 01-26-2010 at 06:59 PM.
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Old 01-03-2010, 12:21 AM
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Lots of good info. Thx for posting this!
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Old 01-03-2010, 12:34 AM
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I saw this over on driver. Thanks for posting it here and props to the original poster SlideFox.

Since the VQ37VHR platform has been around for several years now, does the original poster of this have anything they'd like to add on the platform that we all have in our cars?
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Old 01-03-2010, 12:39 AM
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So far none, I'll take over and keep it updated for the HR for this site, if poster does update I will update immediately.
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Old 01-03-2010, 12:43 AM
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Last I heard Slidefox has been busy.... Doesn't really come online that much.

Thanks for the post Rider !
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Old 01-03-2010, 12:49 AM
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sticky sticky! lots of good info in here

thanks rider!
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Old 01-03-2010, 01:30 AM
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G37Rider92649, thanks for taking the time to group this information together. So if you're going to be adding journalistic type information as a guide to noobies, shouldn't that include all possible forced induction options being offered for the 3.7L platform?

I'm sure people would enjoy reading information like this that was unbiased, rather than just your personal preferences on company's you might have?

Interested to hear your thoughts..
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Old 01-03-2010, 01:39 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
I'm sure people would enjoy reading information like this that was unbiased, rather than just your personal preferences on company's you might have?.
Or work with . . . https://www.myg37.com/forums/2829378-post15.html
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Old 01-03-2010, 01:47 AM
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Props to the original writer. Sticky for sure.
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Old 01-03-2010, 06:23 AM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
G37Rider92649, thanks for taking the time to group this information together. So if you're going to be adding journalistic type information as a guide to noobies, shouldn't that include all possible forced induction options being offered for the 3.7L platform?

I'm sure people would enjoy reading information like this that was unbiased, rather than just your personal preferences on company's you might have?

Interested to hear your thoughts..
Absolutely, I will only post all information and positive information about everything possible. Yes when your Stillen is out I will post about it's success and what it does, heck I probably just will copy and paste the main specs about it and put it on here. No Bias information on here, I'm hardheaded but not stupid. People could wish to chim in also and I'll just update it, simple as that. This is for the community not a thread with my opinions, we'll all work together to provide each other value FI information.
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Old 01-03-2010, 06:24 AM
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Originally Posted by G-ThirtySe7en View Post
ohh you just want to see debates dont you haha no need for that here bro, but when times are right i will be ready
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:54 AM
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Hey no love for the VQ37VHR??? lol j/k very informative props to SlideFox for writing it up and props to you for plagiarizing his work hahaha I kid I kid

Stickied!
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Old 01-03-2010, 04:18 PM
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I would like to see if you have any additional information on the VQ37 motor? I will be in the market for FI soon and would like to know where to start and what to look for in an FI system.
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