Grounding Kit question
06-26-2009, 11:30 PM
#16
Registered Member
The grounding kits work to improve grounding of chassis ground to negative. The stock design already includes a wire from the negative terminal to chassis, these are just bigger wires with less inductive reactance along with direct connections versus going through already connected parts of the car.
06-27-2009, 02:05 AM
#17
Registered User
I understand the intent, but from what I've seen the kit's wires are connected to the battery (-) terminal clamp, however the battery (-) is connected to the current sensor which in turn is connected to the chassis ground as per this diagram. Are the kit wires connected to the output of the current sensor? If not, I see this as a problem.
Last edited by RedG37SNC; 06-27-2009 at 11:09 AM.
06-27-2009, 09:25 PM
#18
I understand the intent, but from what I've seen the kit's wires are connected to the battery (-) terminal clamp, however the battery (-) is connected to the current sensor which in turn is connected to the chassis ground as per this diagram. Are the kit wires connected to the output of the current sensor? If not, I see this as a problem.
If you see it as a problem, I'd avoid grounding kits, at least the ones that don't include a current sensor.
Last edited by Black Betty; 06-07-2010 at 07:15 PM. Reason: Correction
06-28-2009, 01:04 PM
#19
Registered User
You know what's really wierd here from some of the reading I've done is this circuit works to regulate the recharge system for the battery and while shorting it probably won't effect that to any great extent where it will have an effect is on fuel economy strangely enough. Apparently when the battery's in a good state it can lower the requirement on the generator which then results in better fuel economy. How much of an impact I have no idea but I'm going to remove the GK wire from the battery to the chassis cluster and keep the rest and see how things go.
Great catch btw Sky!, once again RTFM prevails!
Great catch btw Sky!, once again RTFM prevails!
Last edited by RedG37SNC; 06-28-2009 at 01:48 PM.
06-28-2009, 04:20 PM
#20
You know what's really wierd here from some of the reading I've done is this circuit works to regulate the recharge system for the battery and while shorting it probably won't effect that to any great extent where it will have an effect is on fuel economy strangely enough. Apparently when the battery's in a good state it can lower the requirement on the generator which then results in better fuel economy. How much of an impact I have no idea but I'm going to remove the GK wire from the battery to the chassis cluster and keep the rest and see how things go.
Great catch btw Sky!, once again RTFM prevails!
Great catch btw Sky!, once again RTFM prevails!
Interesting... keep us posted on your results.
I have yet to experience any issues with my setup but would love to see if better fuel economy results from Reds alteration of the BBGK.
12-08-2009, 02:43 AM
#21
I ran that search and I found this response, and it doesn't make any sense:
"The theory:
Installing a grounding kit is a safe and reliable way of creating a low resistance ground path for your car. The kit provides direct ground paths from battery negative to body, chassis, and specific engine components to give a noticeable improvement in electrical circulation."
Electrical circulation? What? What needs to circulate better? Does he mean to say 'resistance' ? Lowering resistance in the electrical paths in your car's electrical system system improves all these things? How? The ECU is a self-contained system, and increasing electron flow or reducing ohms away from or in to is going to affect what goes on inside the ECU exactly how? You're not controlling the electron flow inside the ECU unless you improve or alter the circuitry, ie, the circuit / motherboard.
"Reduced electrical “noise” can improve ECU signals and throttle response resulting in better performance and reduction in flat spots, better audio amp grounding and many other benefits associated with improved grounding."
Again, how? What noise? Resistance? The ECU needs to have its signal strength boosted? A grounding kit makes the instructions coming out of the ECU come out faster, and therefore throttle response is improved? I do not understand this reasoning. I want to know HOW reduced electrical 'noise' can improve throttle response, and what is meant by 'improve ECU signals'
There is no science or real explanation in this response. He jumps from point a to point z with no real indication as to what actually occurs. The only area where this explanation makes any sense is with the amp grounding comment. It was not helpful.
I am not saying it doesn't work, but I have to see an actual & factual explanation.
"The theory:
Installing a grounding kit is a safe and reliable way of creating a low resistance ground path for your car. The kit provides direct ground paths from battery negative to body, chassis, and specific engine components to give a noticeable improvement in electrical circulation."
Electrical circulation? What? What needs to circulate better? Does he mean to say 'resistance' ? Lowering resistance in the electrical paths in your car's electrical system system improves all these things? How? The ECU is a self-contained system, and increasing electron flow or reducing ohms away from or in to is going to affect what goes on inside the ECU exactly how? You're not controlling the electron flow inside the ECU unless you improve or alter the circuitry, ie, the circuit / motherboard.
"Reduced electrical “noise” can improve ECU signals and throttle response resulting in better performance and reduction in flat spots, better audio amp grounding and many other benefits associated with improved grounding."
Again, how? What noise? Resistance? The ECU needs to have its signal strength boosted? A grounding kit makes the instructions coming out of the ECU come out faster, and therefore throttle response is improved? I do not understand this reasoning. I want to know HOW reduced electrical 'noise' can improve throttle response, and what is meant by 'improve ECU signals'
There is no science or real explanation in this response. He jumps from point a to point z with no real indication as to what actually occurs. The only area where this explanation makes any sense is with the amp grounding comment. It was not helpful.
I am not saying it doesn't work, but I have to see an actual & factual explanation.
Last edited by G37Sam; 12-08-2009 at 03:09 AM.
12-08-2009, 03:14 AM
#22
Administrator
Hope you don't mind me moving your post here
Most new cars (including ours) come with a drive-by-wire mechanism. Meaning your gas pedal isn't mechanically hooked up to the throttle valve, but rather to a Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) which sends a signal to the ECU, the ECU goes through some tables and outputs a signal to the electronically actuated Throttle Valve, that's why I believe improving the circuitry improves response.
Same applies to the transmission since the ECU sends a signal to the transmission telling it to upshift/downshift
Most new cars (including ours) come with a drive-by-wire mechanism. Meaning your gas pedal isn't mechanically hooked up to the throttle valve, but rather to a Throttle Position Sensor (TPS) which sends a signal to the ECU, the ECU goes through some tables and outputs a signal to the electronically actuated Throttle Valve, that's why I believe improving the circuitry improves response.
Same applies to the transmission since the ECU sends a signal to the transmission telling it to upshift/downshift
Last edited by G37Sam; 12-08-2009 at 03:15 AM. Reason: Typo
12-08-2009, 01:29 PM
#24
Blah, blah, blah with all the theories......I'm an electrical engineer and could write something technical up as well.....bottom line is it does not "hurt", most report noticable differences (including me) especially those with AT, and it looks good. 
12-08-2009, 01:35 PM
#25
All the experts have spoken. Case closed.
Get it.
EDIT: to add to what ozzypriest and Sam were saying......what Sam is saying would be true if the grounding kit establishes a less resistant path for the ECU, but I don't think it does. Nor does it mess with any ECU internals. Not sure if there's benefit involving the ECU with grounding kit. Maybe if someone had a detailed diagram of the grounding from the factory.....
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
Get it.
EDIT: to add to what ozzypriest and Sam were saying......what Sam is saying would be true if the grounding kit establishes a less resistant path for the ECU, but I don't think it does. Nor does it mess with any ECU internals. Not sure if there's benefit involving the ECU with grounding kit. Maybe if someone had a detailed diagram of the grounding from the factory.....
__________________
Best Car Insurance | Auto Protection Today | FREE Trade-In Quote
12-08-2009, 08:17 PM
#26
Registered User
Grounding kits in general are a good thing but that doesn't change the fact that with this car and possibly others they have introduced a module to control battery recharge with the purpose being to improve fuel economy. If you bypass it you defeat that module and any benefits it would provide.
I've left the grounding kit but removed the bypass. Unfortunately I'm not one that drives with fuel economy in mind.. that's just not why I bought the car. But with how I drive there's been no real noticable difference not bypassing the module so for what's that's worth it doesn't seem to be worth worring about. I got about 19-20 before... I still get 19-20 now.
I've left the grounding kit but removed the bypass. Unfortunately I'm not one that drives with fuel economy in mind.. that's just not why I bought the car. But with how I drive there's been no real noticable difference not bypassing the module so for what's that's worth it doesn't seem to be worth worring about. I got about 19-20 before... I still get 19-20 now.
12-08-2009, 09:42 PM
#27
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: FL
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
pocket protectors and slide rules aside fella's... Does anybody have actual data? Dynos or track times before and after installation? Now that could be convincing enough to make me part with my money!
12-08-2009, 09:59 PM
#28
Really? Track data or Dyno data on a grounding kit? Heck we argue on this forum all the time about track/dyno results when people change out big items. Kinda like asking what is the best oil? Nothing is going to prove it to you, so guess no one gets your money. 
12-08-2009, 10:41 PM
#29
Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: FL
Posts: 138
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Hamster, folks are posting about "faster shifting", "improved throttle response" so I'm wondring if this is like, hey I just put synthetic in my Civic and it drives like a bat out of hell or is there some actual difference... My favorite are the posts about "inductive reactance", seriously the battery is a DC circuit and inductive reactance is a function of frequency, what's the highest frequency signal in the G? Couple hundred kHz, maybe a Meg? What's the difference in inductance per/foot? If you wanna buy your "G" some bling, go for it, don't try to use science to justify it Or spend the money on a new detail and you'll get better speed from the improved "laminar airflow".
I guess i should have used my <sarcasm> tags in the previous post...
Or spend the money on a new detail and you'll get better speed from the improved "laminar airflow". I guess i should have used my <sarcasm> tags in the previous post...
[in lieu of sarcasm quotes]. 
or 
or 
.