In need of help from 7AT Owner’s
06-03-2009, 12:19 PM
#1
In need of help from 7AT Owner’s
I recently took my G37X in to get the first oil change at 1300 miles. I also had them check the transmission since I had what they called a ‘RPM Flare’ at around 40 MPH on normal acceleration. The scenario is that the car is driven and warmed up then allowed to sit for an hour and driven again. On the second drive, once the speed gets close to 40 MPH, the transmission would shift into the next gear but before dropping into gear the RPM would jump by 500 before dropping. There is no noticeable jerk in the transmission and is only noticed by engine sound visual confirmation on the TACH. They are saying it is normal due to the two torque converters and will test another car to see if it happens to that.
What I am hoping is some of you with a 7AT can do a simple test to confirm whether this is normal or not, so if you could help out it would be deeply appreciated.
What needs to be done:
1. Drive your car like normal.
2. Let it sit for an hour (engine off, go shopping, have a quick dinner or something)
3. Drive it again paying attention to the RPM at around 35 – 45 MPH and note if you have any flare’s in the RPM
I am really stressed out about this, and not knowing if this is (lemon) or is not an issue is preventing me from enjoying the car.
What I am hoping is some of you with a 7AT can do a simple test to confirm whether this is normal or not, so if you could help out it would be deeply appreciated.
What needs to be done:
1. Drive your car like normal.
2. Let it sit for an hour (engine off, go shopping, have a quick dinner or something)
3. Drive it again paying attention to the RPM at around 35 – 45 MPH and note if you have any flare’s in the RPM
I am really stressed out about this, and not knowing if this is (lemon) or is not an issue is preventing me from enjoying the car.
06-03-2009, 02:02 PM
#3
Registered Member
On this issue, I haven't seen the condition you mention and I've definitely driven the way you describe with the car parked for a while then driven normally again. I would have noticed this condition which by your description sounds like the transmission is momentarily going into "neutral" before dropping into gear. Go with them when they drive it so you can show them the exact scenario you are seeing. I'm sure they will look into it.
06-03-2009, 02:48 PM
#4
I recently took my G37X in to get the first oil change at 1300 miles. I also had them check the transmission since I had what they called a ‘RPM Flare’ at around 40 MPH on normal acceleration. The scenario is that the car is driven and warmed up then allowed to sit for an hour and driven again. On the second drive, once the speed gets close to 40 MPH, the transmission would shift into the next gear but before dropping into gear the RPM would jump by 500 before dropping. There is no noticeable jerk in the transmission and is only noticed by engine sound visual confirmation on the TACH. They are saying it is normal due to the two torque converters and will test another car to see if it happens to that.
What I am hoping is some of you with a 7AT can do a simple test to confirm whether this is normal or not, so if you could help out it would be deeply appreciated.
What needs to be done:
1. Drive your car like normal.
2. Let it sit for an hour (engine off, go shopping, have a quick dinner or something)
3. Drive it again paying attention to the RPM at around 35 – 45 MPH and note if you have any flare’s in the RPM
I am really stressed out about this, and not knowing if this is (lemon) or is not an issue is preventing me from enjoying the car.
What I am hoping is some of you with a 7AT can do a simple test to confirm whether this is normal or not, so if you could help out it would be deeply appreciated.
What needs to be done:
1. Drive your car like normal.
2. Let it sit for an hour (engine off, go shopping, have a quick dinner or something)
3. Drive it again paying attention to the RPM at around 35 – 45 MPH and note if you have any flare’s in the RPM
I am really stressed out about this, and not knowing if this is (lemon) or is not an issue is preventing me from enjoying the car.
06-04-2009, 03:49 AM
#5
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MaxdOut, I'll try to be alert & see if I have it too on my G37x.
I did find that some previous version `01 QX4 Infiniti owners have "transmission flare issue". Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) referring to this is posted below. Fix was associated with transmisison control module (TCM) with possible associated solenoid assembly.
NHTSA Item Number: 618439
Service Bulletin #: ITB00061
Replacement #:
Vehicle/Equipment Make: INFINITI
Vehicle/Eqipment Model: QX4
Model Year:
Mfg Component Code: 103100 POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:CONTROL MODULE (TCM, PCM)
Date of Bulletin: 2000-10-16
Date Added: 2001-04-12
Summary: CUSTOMERS MAY INDICATE THAT THE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLARES ON THE 1-2 SHIFT WHEN ACCELERATING HARD FROM A STOP AND THEN BACKING OFF ON THE THROTTLE. *TT
Others have noted that troubleshooting alternative causes may point to an unrelated clogged fuel filter, wherein after changing clogged fuel filter, no discernable significant RPM flare issue occured. Although with 1300 miles on your G37 as you have described makes this quite unlikely. But go ahead & check this anyway. Would you recall filling up in any possibly dubious service gas station at one time?
I did find that some previous version `01 QX4 Infiniti owners have "transmission flare issue". Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) referring to this is posted below. Fix was associated with transmisison control module (TCM) with possible associated solenoid assembly.
NHTSA Item Number: 618439
Service Bulletin #: ITB00061
Replacement #:
Vehicle/Equipment Make: INFINITI
Vehicle/Eqipment Model: QX4
Model Year:
Mfg Component Code: 103100 POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:CONTROL MODULE (TCM, PCM)
Date of Bulletin: 2000-10-16
Date Added: 2001-04-12
Summary: CUSTOMERS MAY INDICATE THAT THE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLARES ON THE 1-2 SHIFT WHEN ACCELERATING HARD FROM A STOP AND THEN BACKING OFF ON THE THROTTLE. *TT
Others have noted that troubleshooting alternative causes may point to an unrelated clogged fuel filter, wherein after changing clogged fuel filter, no discernable significant RPM flare issue occured. Although with 1300 miles on your G37 as you have described makes this quite unlikely. But go ahead & check this anyway. Would you recall filling up in any possibly dubious service gas station at one time?
06-04-2009, 08:30 AM
#6
I think you're referring to the downshift RPM condition which is NOT a TSB. There's a whole thread on whether it's a problem or not.
On this issue, I haven't seen the condition you mention and I've definitely driven the way you describe with the car parked for a while then driven normally again. I would have noticed this condition which by your description sounds like the transmission is momentarily going into "neutral" before dropping into gear. Go with them when they drive it so you can show them the exact scenario you are seeing. I'm sure they will look into it.
On this issue, I haven't seen the condition you mention and I've definitely driven the way you describe with the car parked for a while then driven normally again. I would have noticed this condition which by your description sounds like the transmission is momentarily going into "neutral" before dropping into gear. Go with them when they drive it so you can show them the exact scenario you are seeing. I'm sure they will look into it.
Did you bring this up with the dealer too?
MaxdOut, I'll try to be alert & see if I have it too on my G37x.
I did find that some previous version `01 QX4 Infiniti owners have "transmission flare issue". Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) referring to this is posted below. Fix was associated with transmisison control module (TCM) with possible associated solenoid assembly.
NHTSA Item Number: 618439
Service Bulletin #: ITB00061
Replacement #:
Vehicle/Equipment Make: INFINITI
Vehicle/Eqipment Model: QX4
Model Year:
Mfg Component Code: 103100 POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:CONTROL MODULE (TCM, PCM)
Date of Bulletin: 2000-10-16
Date Added: 2001-04-12
Summary: CUSTOMERS MAY INDICATE THAT THE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLARES ON THE 1-2 SHIFT WHEN ACCELERATING HARD FROM A STOP AND THEN BACKING OFF ON THE THROTTLE. *TT
Others have noted that troubleshooting alternative causes may point to an unrelated clogged fuel filter, wherein after changing clogged fuel filter, no discernable significant RPM flare issue occured. Although with 1300 miles on your G37 as you have described makes this quite unlikely. But go ahead & check this anyway. Would you recall filling up in any possibly dubious service gas station at one time?
I did find that some previous version `01 QX4 Infiniti owners have "transmission flare issue". Technical Service Bulletin (TSB) referring to this is posted below. Fix was associated with transmisison control module (TCM) with possible associated solenoid assembly.
NHTSA Item Number: 618439
Service Bulletin #: ITB00061
Replacement #:
Vehicle/Equipment Make: INFINITI
Vehicle/Eqipment Model: QX4
Model Year:
Mfg Component Code: 103100 POWER TRAIN:AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION:CONTROL MODULE (TCM, PCM)
Date of Bulletin: 2000-10-16
Date Added: 2001-04-12
Summary: CUSTOMERS MAY INDICATE THAT THE AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION FLARES ON THE 1-2 SHIFT WHEN ACCELERATING HARD FROM A STOP AND THEN BACKING OFF ON THE THROTTLE. *TT
Others have noted that troubleshooting alternative causes may point to an unrelated clogged fuel filter, wherein after changing clogged fuel filter, no discernable significant RPM flare issue occured. Although with 1300 miles on your G37 as you have described makes this quite unlikely. But go ahead & check this anyway. Would you recall filling up in any possibly dubious service gas station at one time?
06-04-2009, 10:20 AM
#7
Maxdout:
It doesn't seem to do it when the car is cold (say first thing in the morning, ambient temp about 55). It does happen on my way home from work as I leave my office. I might take my car out at lunch and come back around 1pm. So...a few hours later..say 5pm, as I leave my office, I might get up to 40mph before I have to make a turn. Then after the stop sign...i get up to maybe 20 before the next stop sign. Then after that stop...I get up to 50 or so...and I barely notice it. So...its something that goes away quickly.
Seems to be something that happens to a "warmish" car.
I haven't been to the dealer since new, but they're installing my spoiler next week. I'm going to make a list of these issues.
It doesn't seem to do it when the car is cold (say first thing in the morning, ambient temp about 55). It does happen on my way home from work as I leave my office. I might take my car out at lunch and come back around 1pm. So...a few hours later..say 5pm, as I leave my office, I might get up to 40mph before I have to make a turn. Then after the stop sign...i get up to maybe 20 before the next stop sign. Then after that stop...I get up to 50 or so...and I barely notice it. So...its something that goes away quickly.
Seems to be something that happens to a "warmish" car.
I haven't been to the dealer since new, but they're installing my spoiler next week. I'm going to make a list of these issues.
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06-04-2009, 11:45 AM
#8
Maxdout:
It doesn't seem to do it when the car is cold (say first thing in the morning, ambient temp about 55). It does happen on my way home from work as I leave my office. I might take my car out at lunch and come back around 1pm. So...a few hours later..say 5pm, as I leave my office, I might get up to 40mph before I have to make a turn. Then after the stop sign...i get up to maybe 20 before the next stop sign. Then after that stop...I get up to 50 or so...and I barely notice it. So...its something that goes away quickly.
Seems to be something that happens to a "warmish" car.
I haven't been to the dealer since new, but they're installing my spoiler next week. I'm going to make a list of these issues.
It doesn't seem to do it when the car is cold (say first thing in the morning, ambient temp about 55). It does happen on my way home from work as I leave my office. I might take my car out at lunch and come back around 1pm. So...a few hours later..say 5pm, as I leave my office, I might get up to 40mph before I have to make a turn. Then after the stop sign...i get up to maybe 20 before the next stop sign. Then after that stop...I get up to 50 or so...and I barely notice it. So...its something that goes away quickly.
Seems to be something that happens to a "warmish" car.
I haven't been to the dealer since new, but they're installing my spoiler next week. I'm going to make a list of these issues.
06-04-2009, 03:46 PM
#9
That's exactly what happens! Never happens when cold or hot only when "warmish" then goes away, makes it very hard to reproduce. I needed to get to the dealer an hour before my scheduled maintance so I could allow the car cool a little so I could show them. Please inform me what the dealer tells you. I also noticed that the longer the wait the less prevalent it becomes. 1-2 hours shows the most "flare".
Hmm...I only seem to have a flare between 3-4..thats why I need to get up to 40ish for it to happen.
06-05-2009, 03:10 PM
#11
Would any one else be willing to try? Not really asking much but to drive your car, something we all like to do.
What needs to be done:
1. Drive your car like normal.
2. Let it sit for an hour (engine off, go shopping, have a quick dinner or something)
3. Drive it again paying attention to the RPM at around 35 – 45 MPH and note if you have any flare’s in the RPM
What needs to be done:
1. Drive your car like normal.
2. Let it sit for an hour (engine off, go shopping, have a quick dinner or something)
3. Drive it again paying attention to the RPM at around 35 – 45 MPH and note if you have any flare’s in the RPM
06-08-2009, 11:35 PM
#13
Registered Member
I think I noticed this on the weekend. It seemed more like the logic was briefly hunting for the right gear causing the RPM to instanteously rise then drop. I was trying to figure out if it was related to my driving condition since I was accelerating then backed off the gas (about to upshift) then went for partial gas on a small incline. Nonetheless it didn't seem to be a problem.
06-09-2009, 01:03 AM
#14
Sky...I don't think what you experienced is the problem. This tranny has some kind of vario torque lockup...and sometimes the rpms flux. The "flare" is as its shifting....instead of the rpms dropping..they jump up and then engage..almost like a slipping tranny would. But instead of slipping...I think the torque converter is unlocking just as it shifts.
These are all programing things and not mechanical defects. They could have done it for a reason..who knows.
These are all programing things and not mechanical defects. They could have done it for a reason..who knows.
06-09-2009, 09:22 AM
#15
I emailed an Infinit Master Tech on another forum and this is the response I recieved:
----------------
So this morning I actually had a G37xS that is being used by my regional rep so it has ~8k on the clock. I took it out for a normal drive and I noticed the shift points are a little odd. Depending on your driving style the Adoptive Shift Control will dictate what happens when and with what force. If I were you I would not stress this too much, I highly doubt that any damage will occur from driving it normally although I think a reflash may come out in the future once more of these are on the road. I do not know what type of car (s) you are coming from but the basic shift control functions of the RE7RO7 are all electronic now and they use some interesting shift logic to keep the transmission from "hunting" like the Lexus' with the 8 speed.
I hate to say it may be normal but at this point and time I do not think there is anything else I can tell you. I do not think there are any reprograms available now. That is not to say tomorrow there may be one for this. I will keep an eye out for anything that looks like what you have and I will pass it along. I think if you can understand just how crazy the operation software is you may understand that it will act different from even last years RE5RO5A 5 speed transmission that almost all Infinitis have used since early 2002.
When I was in the new model training class for the FX35/50 last year we went over the RE7 pretty thoroughly and got a rough idea of the operation and just how the myriad of sensors that monitor absolutely every aspect of operation. The goal of this transmission is to achieve more of a balance between the raw power of the 3.7 liter VQ and the fuel economy capabilities of having a 7 speed and the VVEL technology.
I think allot of these types of issues and concerns that you may start seeing more of on the forum are going to be perception based and not an actual flaw in the vehicle. As I cannot speak for other manufacturers I know that this is Infinitis first step into the world of entirely electronically controlled automatic transmission. The feeling may be different, I can relate that to when "drive-by-wire" first came out in the early years of this decade. Technology in general is greatly changing in these cars and the best advice I can give you is don't let it bother, although I understand that is easier said than done. You have bought an all around amazing car don't one minor annoyance get to you. I would say keep half an eye on it, as any tuned in driver should be, but don't let it keep you up at night. You still have plenty of warranty left so if (hypothetically) something does happen you will be covered.
One quick side note. The G37x does not have a dual torque convertor. It does use a variable slip rate torque convertor. Also a few of the more traditional components have been replaced, some of the clutches and bands are gone and replaced with linear solenoids (7 as apposed to the earlier models with 4). This allows for greater oversight by the TCM. Below is a link to the automatic transmission for the 2008 G37, it is the closest thing I could find at this time.
Long story short, don't kill yourself over this I understand if it is unacceptable to you and I can sympathize with that. If this one incident doesn't sway your opinions of this car don't stress it too much if this problem worsens, or any warning lights illuminate than take it in. Another small piece of mind, along with a significant increase in sensors is the significant increase in self diagnostic capabilities of the TCM. Basically the car can not only verify the integrity of the circuits, it can reference the sensors output with logic and other sensors to cross check itself.
2nd email:
I had a conversation with a friend inside the company today and there will be a fix for some of the RE7 concerns. It is not out yet and your service department will know nothing of it currently, but I will let you know when a bulletin is released pertaining to this concern.
So if this happens with your trans, bring it up with the dealer and have them noted it. If a reflash does not address this issue then at least they'll know there is another problem that needs attention.
I would also like to keep this thread going to get a better idea of how widespread this may or may not be.
----------------
So this morning I actually had a G37xS that is being used by my regional rep so it has ~8k on the clock. I took it out for a normal drive and I noticed the shift points are a little odd. Depending on your driving style the Adoptive Shift Control will dictate what happens when and with what force. If I were you I would not stress this too much, I highly doubt that any damage will occur from driving it normally although I think a reflash may come out in the future once more of these are on the road. I do not know what type of car (s) you are coming from but the basic shift control functions of the RE7RO7 are all electronic now and they use some interesting shift logic to keep the transmission from "hunting" like the Lexus' with the 8 speed.
I hate to say it may be normal but at this point and time I do not think there is anything else I can tell you. I do not think there are any reprograms available now. That is not to say tomorrow there may be one for this. I will keep an eye out for anything that looks like what you have and I will pass it along. I think if you can understand just how crazy the operation software is you may understand that it will act different from even last years RE5RO5A 5 speed transmission that almost all Infinitis have used since early 2002.
When I was in the new model training class for the FX35/50 last year we went over the RE7 pretty thoroughly and got a rough idea of the operation and just how the myriad of sensors that monitor absolutely every aspect of operation. The goal of this transmission is to achieve more of a balance between the raw power of the 3.7 liter VQ and the fuel economy capabilities of having a 7 speed and the VVEL technology.
I think allot of these types of issues and concerns that you may start seeing more of on the forum are going to be perception based and not an actual flaw in the vehicle. As I cannot speak for other manufacturers I know that this is Infinitis first step into the world of entirely electronically controlled automatic transmission. The feeling may be different, I can relate that to when "drive-by-wire" first came out in the early years of this decade. Technology in general is greatly changing in these cars and the best advice I can give you is don't let it bother, although I understand that is easier said than done. You have bought an all around amazing car don't one minor annoyance get to you. I would say keep half an eye on it, as any tuned in driver should be, but don't let it keep you up at night. You still have plenty of warranty left so if (hypothetically) something does happen you will be covered.
One quick side note. The G37x does not have a dual torque convertor. It does use a variable slip rate torque convertor. Also a few of the more traditional components have been replaced, some of the clutches and bands are gone and replaced with linear solenoids (7 as apposed to the earlier models with 4). This allows for greater oversight by the TCM. Below is a link to the automatic transmission for the 2008 G37, it is the closest thing I could find at this time.
Long story short, don't kill yourself over this I understand if it is unacceptable to you and I can sympathize with that. If this one incident doesn't sway your opinions of this car don't stress it too much if this problem worsens, or any warning lights illuminate than take it in. Another small piece of mind, along with a significant increase in sensors is the significant increase in self diagnostic capabilities of the TCM. Basically the car can not only verify the integrity of the circuits, it can reference the sensors output with logic and other sensors to cross check itself.
2nd email:
I had a conversation with a friend inside the company today and there will be a fix for some of the RE7 concerns. It is not out yet and your service department will know nothing of it currently, but I will let you know when a bulletin is released pertaining to this concern.
So if this happens with your trans, bring it up with the dealer and have them noted it. If a reflash does not address this issue then at least they'll know there is another problem that needs attention.
I would also like to keep this thread going to get a better idea of how widespread this may or may not be.