Suspension setup for maximum straight line traction with 500hp TT
01-29-2014, 11:18 PM
#1
Registered User
Thread Starter
Suspension setup for maximum straight line traction with 500hp TT
Hey all.
So after jacking Sharpbycoop's build thread with suspension setup questions I decided to start a new thread to get some input from others. Experience from anyone with a boosted G would be fantastic.
I've never known much about suspension setups but have been reading a lot about coilovers, weight distribution, centre of gravity, sways, tower braces, camber, toe and cast. Everyone who is pushing big HP on their boosted G has mentioned how traction off the line is the biggest issue and that first and second gears are practically unuseable at more than 50% throttle. I suspect that this is another reason why we dont seem to see many 0-60times or fantastic 1/4 mile times being posted up. As everyone knows 500hp is gonna be fun no matter what and spinning tyres easily is good to impress your friends but having a 500whp car that can only run high 11 or low 12 second 1/4's isn't really taking full advantage of that power.
My opinion (and i am looking for input into why this is right/wrong/crazy etc.) is that seeing as the G is never really going to be a fantastic track car, setting it up more for straight line speed whilst retaining reasonable corning ability is going to be best for the street. My previous car was an FD Rx7 with rock hard coils that handled like a go kart but the G37 is a totally different beast so I believe that it should be setup to take advantage of its strong points.
From my research I have come to the following conclusion. The best setup for straight line speed will be lowering the front with the rear slightly higher, quiet hard coils at the front with softer coils with softer dampening at the rear. This coupled with front sways on harder setting and rear sways on a medium setting should get the weight destributing quickly to the rear of the car during heavy acceleration. Hopefully this will make the rear end 'heavy' and get the car to 'squat' and improve traction.
Getting the rear camber as close to zero as possible and with neutral rear toe should also help keep as much of the rear tyres on the road as possible. I'm still not certain about whether increasing/decreasin cast will help at all alart from helping to get closer to zero camber.
Taking the above setup to the extreme will produce massive (probably dangerous) understeer and I don't want to turn the G into a track car, so everything will need to be done in balance in order to keep some semblence of decent handling. I don't expect the G to ever handle like some of its JDM cousins (Evo's, wrx's, GTR's, Supra's, Rx7's etc.) its just too heavy and there is no point giving up all of the cars luxury aspect trying to compete with those classic's. I do think that it should be possible to give them a serious scare in a straight line though.
Any and all thoughts, suggestions, comments and questions are welcome!
Cheers
Al
So after jacking Sharpbycoop's build thread with suspension setup questions I decided to start a new thread to get some input from others. Experience from anyone with a boosted G would be fantastic.
I've never known much about suspension setups but have been reading a lot about coilovers, weight distribution, centre of gravity, sways, tower braces, camber, toe and cast. Everyone who is pushing big HP on their boosted G has mentioned how traction off the line is the biggest issue and that first and second gears are practically unuseable at more than 50% throttle. I suspect that this is another reason why we dont seem to see many 0-60times or fantastic 1/4 mile times being posted up. As everyone knows 500hp is gonna be fun no matter what and spinning tyres easily is good to impress your friends but having a 500whp car that can only run high 11 or low 12 second 1/4's isn't really taking full advantage of that power.
My opinion (and i am looking for input into why this is right/wrong/crazy etc.) is that seeing as the G is never really going to be a fantastic track car, setting it up more for straight line speed whilst retaining reasonable corning ability is going to be best for the street. My previous car was an FD Rx7 with rock hard coils that handled like a go kart but the G37 is a totally different beast so I believe that it should be setup to take advantage of its strong points.
From my research I have come to the following conclusion. The best setup for straight line speed will be lowering the front with the rear slightly higher, quiet hard coils at the front with softer coils with softer dampening at the rear. This coupled with front sways on harder setting and rear sways on a medium setting should get the weight destributing quickly to the rear of the car during heavy acceleration. Hopefully this will make the rear end 'heavy' and get the car to 'squat' and improve traction.
Getting the rear camber as close to zero as possible and with neutral rear toe should also help keep as much of the rear tyres on the road as possible. I'm still not certain about whether increasing/decreasin cast will help at all alart from helping to get closer to zero camber.
Taking the above setup to the extreme will produce massive (probably dangerous) understeer and I don't want to turn the G into a track car, so everything will need to be done in balance in order to keep some semblence of decent handling. I don't expect the G to ever handle like some of its JDM cousins (Evo's, wrx's, GTR's, Supra's, Rx7's etc.) its just too heavy and there is no point giving up all of the cars luxury aspect trying to compete with those classic's. I do think that it should be possible to give them a serious scare in a straight line though.
Any and all thoughts, suggestions, comments and questions are welcome!
Cheers
Al
02-02-2014, 03:34 AM
#2
Registered User
Thread Starter
Plenty of views, no responses! 
Noone knows anything about max traction suspension setup? The entire G37 crowd cant be all about stance can they??
I was just reading on 370z.com about the new Fast Intentions TT kit putting out 630+ WHP on E85. Numbers are fantastic but unless someone knows how to get this power to the road well then I am just going to start buying REALLY cheap tyres and amuse myself by burning through them all day long! :P
I'll try a question....who thinks that the extra weight of the G37 will help with traction over the 370z? Does anyone have the actual weight distribution figures for our cars?
Noone knows anything about max traction suspension setup? The entire G37 crowd cant be all about stance can they??
I was just reading on 370z.com about the new Fast Intentions TT kit putting out 630+ WHP on E85. Numbers are fantastic but unless someone knows how to get this power to the road well then I am just going to start buying REALLY cheap tyres and amuse myself by burning through them all day long! :P
I'll try a question....who thinks that the extra weight of the G37 will help with traction over the 370z? Does anyone have the actual weight distribution figures for our cars?
02-02-2014, 09:37 AM
#3
Maybe RobertK will respond, he's got a top-notch Z and also has a nice G Sedan currently, I'm thinking he'd have an idea about the Z-G comparos.
I'm interested in this thread as you're putting a lot of thought into a proper setup. Wish I could add something useful here but no hands on experience w/ what you're putting together. Look forward to replies~
I'm interested in this thread as you're putting a lot of thought into a proper setup. Wish I could add something useful here but no hands on experience w/ what you're putting together. Look forward to replies~
02-02-2014, 11:23 AM
#5
Registered User
Thread Starter
Maybe RobertK will respond, he's got a top-notch Z and also has a nice G Sedan currently, I'm thinking he'd have an idea about the Z-G comparos.
I'm interested in this thread as you're putting a lot of thought into a proper setup. Wish I could add something useful here but no hands on experience w/ what you're putting together. Look forward to replies~
I'm interested in this thread as you're putting a lot of thought into a proper setup. Wish I could add something useful here but no hands on experience w/ what you're putting together. Look forward to replies~
Even someone who just has experience on a previous car could chime in on whether my logic sounds correct or not....
02-02-2014, 03:56 PM
#6
I don't know a lot to fully answer your questions but I will tell you what I know. For straight line traction you will need to have the wheels toe in as this helps with straight line speed but will cause under steer in the corners. The same would go for the back. As for traction you need proper slick tires or something close like a Bridgestone RE11 tire or toyo R888 tire. Other than that my best guess would be suspension braces for stability and a proper LSD to evenly power the rear wheels if your car is RWD. I'll try doing more research but for now this is what I know.
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02-02-2014, 07:38 PM
#8
Registered Member
Under what condition are you running this car? Street only, drag strip, both?
Are you asking this question purely for street tires, or slicks, or both? What tire sizes are you going to be running?
What's your budget on coilovers and suspension arms?
Everything is relative and compromises will have to be made. A setup optimum for straight line traction will require sacrifices on cornering traction. Only you will know where that line is drawn, and you will only know through testing different setting within your setup.
Spring rates and damper settings varies from types and sizes of tires you want to run, varies from just how much cornering ability you want. So it's really hard to even hypothetically answer your question. If you want the absolute "best", then one easy advice is prepare $10k for coilovers that allow 4 way adjustments: slow and high speed adjustment on compression and rebound.
A taller final drive ratio and a good locking diff should be considered also I think.
Are you asking this question purely for street tires, or slicks, or both? What tire sizes are you going to be running?
What's your budget on coilovers and suspension arms?
Everything is relative and compromises will have to be made. A setup optimum for straight line traction will require sacrifices on cornering traction. Only you will know where that line is drawn, and you will only know through testing different setting within your setup.
Spring rates and damper settings varies from types and sizes of tires you want to run, varies from just how much cornering ability you want. So it's really hard to even hypothetically answer your question. If you want the absolute "best", then one easy advice is prepare $10k for coilovers that allow 4 way adjustments: slow and high speed adjustment on compression and rebound.
A taller final drive ratio and a good locking diff should be considered also I think.
02-02-2014, 08:06 PM
#9
Registered User
Thread Starter
I don't know a lot to fully answer your questions but I will tell you what I know. For straight line traction you will need to have the wheels toe in as this helps with straight line speed but will cause under steer in the corners. The same would go for the back. As for traction you need proper slick tires or something close like a Bridgestone RE11 tire or toyo R888 tire. Other than that my best guess would be suspension braces for stability and a proper LSD to evenly power the rear wheels if your car is RWD. I'll try doing more research but for now this is what I know.
Semi-slicks would definitely be worth a look. As long as they aren't prohibitively expensive or only get 5000kms of life that is
Under what condition are you running this car? Street only, drag strip, both?
Are you asking this question purely for street tires, or slicks, or both? What tire sizes are you going to be running?
What's your budget on coilovers and suspension arms?
Everything is relative and compromises will have to be made. A setup optimum for straight line traction will require sacrifices on cornering traction. Only you will know where that line is drawn, and you will only know through testing different setting within your setup.
Spring rates and damper settings varies from types and sizes of tires you want to run, varies from just how much cornering ability you want. So it's really hard to even hypothetically answer your question. If you want the absolute "best", then one easy advice is prepare $10k for coilovers that allow 4 way adjustments: slow and high speed adjustment on compression and rebound.
A taller final drive ratio and a good locking diff should be considered also I think.
Are you asking this question purely for street tires, or slicks, or both? What tire sizes are you going to be running?
What's your budget on coilovers and suspension arms?
Everything is relative and compromises will have to be made. A setup optimum for straight line traction will require sacrifices on cornering traction. Only you will know where that line is drawn, and you will only know through testing different setting within your setup.
Spring rates and damper settings varies from types and sizes of tires you want to run, varies from just how much cornering ability you want. So it's really hard to even hypothetically answer your question. If you want the absolute "best", then one easy advice is prepare $10k for coilovers that allow 4 way adjustments: slow and high speed adjustment on compression and rebound.
A taller final drive ratio and a good locking diff should be considered also I think.
Running the stock 19's with the widest tires that I can fit (245/275 if memory serves). Wheels that could take larger tires would definitely help. I really like the stock 19 inch Enkei's though!
As per my OP I fully understand that everything is a balance and that the perfect straight line setup will mean insta-death on the corners. Im just looking for input (preferably g37 experienced) as to whether my logic is correct. Much testing will need to be done before I find what is perfect for me individually but hopefully someone can chime in with "i went with 1" inch drop rear, 1.5" front, 12kg coils front, 8kg coils rear and stock swaybars and it almost killed me!!!". Something to save me (and others) from learning the hard way.
With regards to $$$, I'm looking at all the standard options that people will generally run. Info from someone who has a $20,000 suspension setup on their G will not really help the community as a whole. I'm looking for info/input which will cover the budgets of the majority here. Anyone looking for the cheapest or most expensive options possible will be an outlier and not be as useful.
$10k coilovers would be fun though!!!
02-02-2014, 08:55 PM
#10
Registered Member
With regards to $$$, I'm looking at all the standard options that people will generally run.
Running a 500hp TT kit puts you pretty high up the budget food chain. What's normal for you may not be normal for others. Specifying supporting parts always help.
But seriously, do consider the taller final drive ratio and a better locking diff. Those 2 go a long way in putting power to the ground down low.
02-02-2014, 10:24 PM
#12
Registered User
Thread Starter
So, something like BC/Fortune Auto/Stance, spc arms, and 275/35/19 rears, and tires will be something around potenza S04/Conti DW/Hankook V12?
Running a 500hp TT kit puts you pretty high up the budget food chain. What's normal for you may not be normal for others. Specifying supporting parts always help.
But seriously, do consider the taller final drive ratio and a better locking diff. Those 2 go a long way in putting power to the ground down low.
Running a 500hp TT kit puts you pretty high up the budget food chain. What's normal for you may not be normal for others. Specifying supporting parts always help.
But seriously, do consider the taller final drive ratio and a better locking diff. Those 2 go a long way in putting power to the ground down low.
Again, those tyres are the standard that most run. I have a feeling that spending $500 extra on some better, stickier tyres might be better than most of the other suspension mods combined. (For straight line traction that is!)
Yeah, when I am asking about people already running with forced induction then I am referring to people who are already "pretty high up on the budget food chain" I guess. Someone posting about traction improvements they have made with thier 320whp G isnt going to be particularly helpful to this thread.
I'll have a good look at the final drive ratio and LSD. I haven't looked into those much so thanks for the heads-up!
02-03-2014, 01:04 PM
#13
Extra $500 is definetly worth it for the traction but people more often go for the cheaper option. Also something you should look into is a lighter/CF drive shaft. KW coils are very popular with people who track their cars, but you should look at some other options since you are trying straight line performance like BC/Stance/Fortune Auto... Also a longer final drive gear ratio like the other member said should help with a quicker trap time.
02-03-2014, 10:18 PM
#14
Registered Member
I'll have to disagree with v3 being "track oriented" coilovers. For serious trackers, v3's spring rate isn't enough once ppl start to run slicks. V3 is a good unit for street tires road + some leisure track duties. Kw has a clubsport line that's more track oriented. Great unit, however, not knocking it at all. I considered that for myself at one time. I've had my share of poor performing coilovers as well.
Good dampers are important in putting the power down, especially when road surfaces are less than perfect. Having 4 ways adjustment is over killed for street use, but good damping is never a waste of money. I can attest to the sensation of running over bumpy banked curves (high speed) with higher than stock spring rates, but yet the car was more stable and allowed for faster speed, and made me feel safe at the same time. Hope you find a satisfied coilovers setup.
As for tires, probably re11 or pilot ss. RS3 will require some heating up so isn't a good choice for dd, IMO.
Good dampers are important in putting the power down, especially when road surfaces are less than perfect. Having 4 ways adjustment is over killed for street use, but good damping is never a waste of money. I can attest to the sensation of running over bumpy banked curves (high speed) with higher than stock spring rates, but yet the car was more stable and allowed for faster speed, and made me feel safe at the same time. Hope you find a satisfied coilovers setup.
As for tires, probably re11 or pilot ss. RS3 will require some heating up so isn't a good choice for dd, IMO.
Last edited by cv129; 02-03-2014 at 10:39 PM.
02-03-2014, 11:05 PM
#15
Registered Member
Depending on how serious you are about suspension, here is why I asked about budget on suspenion arms
I don't own a TT car, in fact hp is bone stock (G and Z), but just wanna take this chance to shine some light into area ppl tend to disregard but really shouldn't. Alkatraz and SunnyG, good luck with your endeavors.
I don't own a TT car, in fact hp is bone stock (G and Z), but just wanna take this chance to shine some light into area ppl tend to disregard but really shouldn't. Alkatraz and SunnyG, good luck with your endeavors.