4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

Does anyone have experience or recommendations for Lithium Ion batteries? I am interested in Lithium Ion to save weight (especially off the front of the car) for track days, but I am concerned about durability in the winter. When searching this site I don't see anyone who has used either Braille or Antigravity Lithium Ion batteries, but they seem to be the two best applications for my needs. Their batteries seem to slot right in between each other in terms of price and capability.

The strange thing is that the guy I talked to at Braille was confident that his batteries would be fine in extreme cold, while the guy I talked to at Antigravity did not sound terribly confident. We had extreme cold this week- temps in the -20 degree range and windchills in the -50 degree range. Normally, our winters get close to or below zero a few times, but usually it is above that. I can also use a Lithium Ion battery just in the warmer months if it does not work in the winter and switch to the OEM battery in the winter, but I would prefer not to. Below are the batteries I think I have it narrowed down to.

Braille has a B3121 Lead/Acid battery that weighs about half as much as my battery at 21 lbs, has 1380 PCA (pulse cranking amps, because why not use CCA like every other lead battery in the world?), 31 Ah, and is much cheaper than Lithium Ion at $241.49. However, it only lasts 2 or maybe 3 years. So this one would save a good deal of weight, but I am not sure if it is worth the investment if it only lasts a couple of years.


Braille also has the G30 Lithium Ion battery combo with a charger that only weighs 5.5 lbs, has 947 PCA and 13 Ah or 45 Ah Lead/Acid equivalent, but costs an eye watering $649.99! (This is a good deal compared to the battery itself which is $599.99 and the 6 amp charger is $157.49) However, compared to the guys at Antigravity, they claim that this battery is good to use year round and fine in the winter. They still claim it can take 30 seconds with your lights and acc on to warm up the battery before the car starts in cold weather. (Sitting in a freezing car in winter before I can even start it is not my idea of a good time) I think it comes down to this battery or the Antigravity ATX-30.
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Antigravity has the ATX-30 Lithium battery for $399.99 with 880 CA (cranking amps- how the hell do you compare this to Braille's PCA?) and 30 Ah Pb equivalent. It weighs 5.75 lbs. I think this battery is also OEM sized so it should mount right up. Not sure about the size of the Braille batteries. This seems like a much better deal than the Braille Lithium Ion battery with similar power, but you would also need to pay at least $117 extra to get a battery tester/charger. Still a pretty good deal, but they said it is probably not the best option for winter here. This seems strange to me since the performance seems similar to Braille and the guy at Braille sounded very confident in his battery for winter use. If this was as good as the Braille in winter I think I would go this route, but I don't know how to find that out for sure.


Antigravity also makes the RS-30 battery that has 1200 CA with 30 Ah (50 Pb equivalent). It weighs 11.5 lbs. and costs $699.99. They said this battery would be better in winter, but still did not sound confident that it would be as durable in winter as my OEM lead battery.


So this means the Braille Lithium battery combo seems to be the best bang for the buck with the charger included. It would save about 35 lbs off the front of my car which would be great. If it did not work in the winter, then I could change out batteries and just use this in the summer. However, I would prefer not to have the oem battery hooked up to a trickle charger all summer.

stealthee

I've never used the Braille battery, but there are a bunch of guys in the 3/S crowd that used them over the years. Unfortunately I don't know their use in extreme cold, but as far as extreme cold wind chill doesn't affect cars.

4doorfury

iTrader: (1)

I use a deka etx18. Been in the car for about 4 months without issue. Car is daily driven but has gone 2-3 days at a time without starting and still fires right up. Barely any reserve capacity though so just be careful with lights on and engine off. Weighs about 18lbs vs 45 for oem

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

Is that the lead/acid battery I see on Amazon with only 340 CCA?

4doorfury

iTrader: (1)

Agm type, glass mat. Works great but then again weather doesn't get too cold where I live. Down to about 30 degrees at lowest.

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

Well, it's not at all what I was thinking of for a battery, but it is good to know that you don't have any problem starting the car with that little amount of power. Can you charge and jump an AGM battery the same as a Lead/Acid?

stealthee

You can jump an AGM battery no problem. There are special chargers and maintainers specifically for AGM as well. Optima sells a nice high end chargers that can bring AGM batteries back from stone cold dead too.

4doorfury

iTrader: (1)

My experience is short lived with the above battery but from what I have experienced it was well worth it. You will need terminal adaptors from eBay which are about $10 but other than that it should serve you well.

Edit:
You will also need a way to space the battery up as it sits about 3" shorter than stock. I used a piece of high density foam on bottom and top. Battery hasn't moved and is quite secure. The foam weighs hardly anything so no penalty there either. Just thought I should add that bit of info.

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

It looks like all of the Antigravity and Braille batteries I was looking at are also not OEM sized.

I was talking to a guy at Antigravity today who said they are going to be releasing some OEM sized batteries that would also be better in the winter. That is great news!

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

Antigravity recently listed 2 new batteries on their website. They are available in OEM sizes H5/Group 47, H6/Group 48, and H7/Group 94R. The Ah & cranking amps are 24Ah/1,000CA, 30Ah/1,200CA, or 40/1,500CA. They weigh 8.5, 11.7, or 15.2 lbs. I don't know that these sizes do us any good though. The guy I talked to before at Antigravity made a point that the Braille batteries were more expensive, but their base model in this series is more expensive, heavier, and only provides slightly more CA (if that is somewhat equivalent to Braille's PCA) than the Braille G30?? This new line of batteries also does not seem that much better than Antigravity's own RS-30. Strange. I will have to do a little more digging, but at least they have a few new options.

https://shop.antigravitybatteries.co...tive/ag-h5-rs/

4DRZ

iTrader: (7)

I just talked to Jacob at Antigravity for 40 minutes about the new Lithium Ion batteries they have listed. I think I only asked 5 questions in all that time so the guy is a bit wordy, but I learned a lot. Apparently, the type of Lithium they use now is LiFePO4 which has an operating temperature down to about 0 degrees Fahrenheit and once temps dip below the mid 40 degree range they recommend turning on your headlights and other accessories to create a draw that warms the battery. Not ideal for cold Wisconsin winters.

Jacob said in 4-5 months they will be releasing more new batteries made out of Lithium Titanate which has an operating temperature from -30 to 50 degrees Celsius which equates to a range of -22 up to 122 degrees Fahrenheit. This seems like a much better option for me, but we will see how they compare once these new batteries are released. Jacob also said these new batteries would be more expensive and he thought the same weight, but Lithium Titanate does not pack as much energy so I bet they will be a bit heavier.