What vehicle will be a worthy replacement for your sedan when it is time?
02-02-2021, 03:37 PM
#3409
Administrator
iTrader: (9)
CT4 has the connected hockey stick running light. CT5 running light is split in half.
CT4 has a flat beltline. CT5 beltline kicks upward after the rear doors.
CT4 has a flat beltline. CT5 beltline kicks upward after the rear doors.
02-02-2021, 04:21 PM
#3410
So I watched the "live" release of the Blackwings last night and my fears that the CT4-V would just be the ATS-V hardware in the new CT4 body were confirmed. I knew we were in trouble when they said that it had a whopping 8 hp more than the ATS-V. They definitely invested more time and effort into the CT5-V than the CT4-V and it shows in the fact that the reservations for the CT5-V booked up in about 20 minutes and the CT4-V did not sell out until just recently today. The rumors of a 3D printed transmission and AWD on the CT5-V turned out to just be rumors. The only 3D printed part they talked about on the release was the emblem on the shift ****. 
I am not too interested in the even bigger and heavier CT5-V blackwing so I will just focus on the CT4-V that I would consider.
CT4-V Blackwing Pros:
-Digital dash looks much better
-Interior materials/fit and finish are much nicer
-AKG premium audio system should be an improvement over the somewhat tinny Bose system in the ATS-V (but I have never heard of AKG)
-Magnesium wheels could be cool if they are still in the plans (no mention of them from Cadillac at this time)
-Front brake rotors grow about 0.5"
-One of the carbon packages reduces lift over 200% (probably also reduces top speed a bit)
-MSRP drops about $2,600
Cons:
-ATS-V has more aggressive styling
-Seats- no mention of Recaro and the grippy microfiber is on the back of the seat where no one sits?? (Maybe they will have different versions)
-Wheels look identical to the ATS-V and tires are exactly the same size
-Rear bumper indent below license plate and tail lights look like a cross-eyed storm trooper (Probably best to avoid white)
-Carbon aero pieces look out of place compared to styling of the car
-0-60 is identical to the ATS-V as are most of the rest of the mechanical bits of the car
Bottom line:
The release and the Cadillac website just did not provide enough detail of the car, packages, specs, etc. for me to place a deposit. It certainly did not "wow" me compared to the ATS-V, except for the massive increase in interior quality. Unfortunately, Cadillac chose to focus much more on improving luxury than performance. This seems like a very odd choice considering that this is a very niche performance car for their most hardcore enthusiasts. The fact that this car is so mechanically similar to the ATS-V before it makes impossible to buy new instead of a used ATS-V at 1/2 the price. Maybe I would consider one of these used in a few years if any are available.
At this point I am much more excited to see the new Nissan Z and Subaru STI because they will be a much larger departure from their current offerings than the CT4-V Blackwing. There is one thing all three of these cars share in common; they will all supposedly represent the last new gasoline only engines for their models, and supposedly for the Nissan and Cadillac, the last for their brands. The electric cars are coming quicker than we thought.
The only other cars I can think of on my radar right now are the mid engine Hyundai hot hatch and Lotus announced a replacement for most of their cars coming this summer. The next generation Audi RS3 is at the back of my mind, but I think it will suffer the same fate as this new Cadillac; too similar to the current model. I doubt they were able to engineer out all of the understeer of the current car. Here is to hoping the engineers and designers of the next STI and Z realize they will be the last of their kind and they make really good driver's cars.
I am not too interested in the even bigger and heavier CT5-V blackwing so I will just focus on the CT4-V that I would consider.CT4-V Blackwing Pros:
-Digital dash looks much better
-Interior materials/fit and finish are much nicer
-AKG premium audio system should be an improvement over the somewhat tinny Bose system in the ATS-V (but I have never heard of AKG)
-Magnesium wheels could be cool if they are still in the plans (no mention of them from Cadillac at this time)
-Front brake rotors grow about 0.5"
-One of the carbon packages reduces lift over 200% (probably also reduces top speed a bit)
-MSRP drops about $2,600
Cons:
-ATS-V has more aggressive styling
-Seats- no mention of Recaro and the grippy microfiber is on the back of the seat where no one sits?? (Maybe they will have different versions)
-Wheels look identical to the ATS-V and tires are exactly the same size
-Rear bumper indent below license plate and tail lights look like a cross-eyed storm trooper (Probably best to avoid white)
-Carbon aero pieces look out of place compared to styling of the car
-0-60 is identical to the ATS-V as are most of the rest of the mechanical bits of the car
Bottom line:
The release and the Cadillac website just did not provide enough detail of the car, packages, specs, etc. for me to place a deposit. It certainly did not "wow" me compared to the ATS-V, except for the massive increase in interior quality. Unfortunately, Cadillac chose to focus much more on improving luxury than performance. This seems like a very odd choice considering that this is a very niche performance car for their most hardcore enthusiasts. The fact that this car is so mechanically similar to the ATS-V before it makes impossible to buy new instead of a used ATS-V at 1/2 the price. Maybe I would consider one of these used in a few years if any are available.
At this point I am much more excited to see the new Nissan Z and Subaru STI because they will be a much larger departure from their current offerings than the CT4-V Blackwing. There is one thing all three of these cars share in common; they will all supposedly represent the last new gasoline only engines for their models, and supposedly for the Nissan and Cadillac, the last for their brands. The electric cars are coming quicker than we thought.
The only other cars I can think of on my radar right now are the mid engine Hyundai hot hatch and Lotus announced a replacement for most of their cars coming this summer. The next generation Audi RS3 is at the back of my mind, but I think it will suffer the same fate as this new Cadillac; too similar to the current model. I doubt they were able to engineer out all of the understeer of the current car. Here is to hoping the engineers and designers of the next STI and Z realize they will be the last of their kind and they make really good driver's cars.
Last edited by 4DRZ; 02-02-2021 at 04:30 PM.
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Lego_Maniac (02-02-2021)
02-02-2021, 04:29 PM
#3411
Administrator
iTrader: (9)
At this point I am much more excited to see the new Nissan Z and Subaru STI because they will be a much larger departure from their current offerings than the CT4-V Blackwing. There is one thing all three of these cars share in common; they will all supposedly represent the last new gasoline only engines for their models and supposedly for the Nissan and Cadillac, the last for their brands. The electric cars are coming quicker than we thought.
This decade, the 20's, will be the last of aspirational, new ICE cars. And in the case of the Z, one of the last opportunities to pair ICE with a manual transmission.
Sure gives you pause for thought when presented that way, huh?
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Lego_Maniac (02-02-2021)
02-02-2021, 04:54 PM
#3413
Registered Member
So I watched the "live" release of the Blackwings last night and my fears that the CT4-V would just be the ATS-V hardware in the new CT4 body were confirmed. I knew we were in trouble when they said that it had a whopping 8 hp more than the ATS-V. They definitely invested more time and effort into the CT5-V than the CT4-V and it shows in the fact that the reservations for the CT5-V booked up in about 20 minutes and the CT4-V did not sell out until just recently today. The rumors of a 3D printed transmission and AWD on the CT5-V turned out to just be rumors. The only 3D printed part they talked about on the release was the emblem on the shift ****. I am not too interested in the even bigger and heavier CT5-V blackwing so I will just focus on the CT4-V that I would consider.
CT4-V Blackwing Pros:
-Digital dash looks much better
-Interior materials/fit and finish are much nicer
-AKG premium audio system should be an improvement over the somewhat tinny Bose system in the ATS-V (but I have never heard of AKG)
-Magnesium wheels could be cool if they are still in the plans (no mention of them from Cadillac at this time)
-Front brake rotors grow about 0.5"
-One of the carbon packages reduces lift over 200% (probably also reduces top speed a bit)
-MSRP drops about $2,600
Cons:
-ATS-V has more aggressive styling
-Seats- no mention of Recaro and the grippy microfiber is on the back of the seat where no one sits?? (Maybe they will have different versions)
-Wheels look identical to the ATS-V and tires are exactly the same size
-Rear bumper indent below license plate and tail lights look like a cross-eyed storm trooper (Probably best to avoid white)
-Carbon aero pieces look out of place compared to styling of the car
-0-60 is identical to the ATS-V as are most of the rest of the mechanical bits of the car
Bottom line:
The release and the Cadillac website just did not provide enough detail of the car, packages, specs, etc. for me to place a deposit. It certainly did not "wow" me compared to the ATS-V, except for the massive increase in interior quality. Unfortunately, Cadillac chose to focus much more on improving luxury than performance. This seems like a very odd choice considering that this is a very niche performance car for their most hardcore enthusiasts. The fact that this car is so mechanically similar to the ATS-V before it makes impossible to buy new instead of a used ATS-V at 1/2 the price. Maybe I would consider one of these used in a few years if any are available.
At this point I am much more excited to see the new Nissan Z and Subaru STI because they will be a much larger departure from their current offerings than the CT4-V Blackwing. There is one thing all three of these cars share in common; they will all supposedly represent the last new gasoline only engines for their models, and supposedly for the Nissan and Cadillac, the last for their brands. The electric cars are coming quicker than we thought.
The only other cars I can think of on my radar right now are the mid engine Hyundai hot hatch and Lotus announced a replacement for most of their cars coming this summer. The next generation Audi RS3 is at the back of my mind, but I think it will suffer the same fate as this new Cadillac; too similar to the current model. I doubt they were able to engineer out all of the understeer of the current car. Here is to hoping the engineers and designers of the next STI and Z realize they will be the last of their kind and they make really good driver's cars.
I am not too interested in the even bigger and heavier CT5-V blackwing so I will just focus on the CT4-V that I would consider.CT4-V Blackwing Pros:
-Digital dash looks much better
-Interior materials/fit and finish are much nicer
-AKG premium audio system should be an improvement over the somewhat tinny Bose system in the ATS-V (but I have never heard of AKG)
-Magnesium wheels could be cool if they are still in the plans (no mention of them from Cadillac at this time)
-Front brake rotors grow about 0.5"
-One of the carbon packages reduces lift over 200% (probably also reduces top speed a bit)
-MSRP drops about $2,600
Cons:
-ATS-V has more aggressive styling
-Seats- no mention of Recaro and the grippy microfiber is on the back of the seat where no one sits?? (Maybe they will have different versions)
-Wheels look identical to the ATS-V and tires are exactly the same size
-Rear bumper indent below license plate and tail lights look like a cross-eyed storm trooper (Probably best to avoid white)
-Carbon aero pieces look out of place compared to styling of the car
-0-60 is identical to the ATS-V as are most of the rest of the mechanical bits of the car
Bottom line:
The release and the Cadillac website just did not provide enough detail of the car, packages, specs, etc. for me to place a deposit. It certainly did not "wow" me compared to the ATS-V, except for the massive increase in interior quality. Unfortunately, Cadillac chose to focus much more on improving luxury than performance. This seems like a very odd choice considering that this is a very niche performance car for their most hardcore enthusiasts. The fact that this car is so mechanically similar to the ATS-V before it makes impossible to buy new instead of a used ATS-V at 1/2 the price. Maybe I would consider one of these used in a few years if any are available.
At this point I am much more excited to see the new Nissan Z and Subaru STI because they will be a much larger departure from their current offerings than the CT4-V Blackwing. There is one thing all three of these cars share in common; they will all supposedly represent the last new gasoline only engines for their models, and supposedly for the Nissan and Cadillac, the last for their brands. The electric cars are coming quicker than we thought.
The only other cars I can think of on my radar right now are the mid engine Hyundai hot hatch and Lotus announced a replacement for most of their cars coming this summer. The next generation Audi RS3 is at the back of my mind, but I think it will suffer the same fate as this new Cadillac; too similar to the current model. I doubt they were able to engineer out all of the understeer of the current car. Here is to hoping the engineers and designers of the next STI and Z realize they will be the last of their kind and they make really good driver's cars.
Some additional pros/cons/clarifications:
- Recaros are an option
- Curb Weight increased by 77lbs
- Improved cooling
- Newer/Faster responding Mag ride
- Magnesium wheels are an option but late availability
Lots of details were left out as the cars are still in Testing.
Overall, it is what I expected of the CT4. I am happy it has the digital dash however I am not sold on the aesthetics. At the end of the day I see it is a performance bargain at 60k (undercuts the M3 by 10k+). The public has spoken because the CT5 sold out in 3 minutes and the CT4 was available for almost a day.
I'll share my thoughts on the CT5 when I have a moment. It's my goal to get one but at $85k+ it is currently not feasible.
02-02-2021, 04:58 PM
#3414
Bottom line:
The release and the Cadillac website just did not provide enough detail of the car, packages, specs, etc. for me to place a deposit. It certainly did not "wow" me compared to the ATS-V, except for the massive increase in interior quality. Unfortunately, Cadillac chose to focus much more on improving luxury than performance. This seems like a very odd choice considering that this is a very niche performance car for their most hardcore enthusiasts. The fact that this car is so mechanically similar to the ATS-V before it makes impossible to buy new instead of a used ATS-V at 1/2 the price. Maybe I would consider one of these used in a few years if any are available.
The release and the Cadillac website just did not provide enough detail of the car, packages, specs, etc. for me to place a deposit. It certainly did not "wow" me compared to the ATS-V, except for the massive increase in interior quality. Unfortunately, Cadillac chose to focus much more on improving luxury than performance. This seems like a very odd choice considering that this is a very niche performance car for their most hardcore enthusiasts. The fact that this car is so mechanically similar to the ATS-V before it makes impossible to buy new instead of a used ATS-V at 1/2 the price. Maybe I would consider one of these used in a few years if any are available.
This does undercut the M3 price by quite a but I question how many hardcore enthusiasts Cadillac has that are going to step up to this. If the ATS-V sales are any indication, it's probably not many, making this a likely unicorn to try and pickup in a couple years on the used car market.
02-02-2021, 05:18 PM
#3415
I know the fully electric cars will be quicker, but the lack of sound and engagement will be a tough pill to swallow for me. I'm still trying to accept Dual Clutch Transmissions...
A very weight focused and good car. Just nowhere near the performance I want and definitely not the practicality. (Then again, the Z is not very practical either)
The car being well over 3,800 lbs. does not excite me. Where did you see anything about the Recaros? I like the design of the quilted leather and I am sure they will be A/C as well, but I would much rather prefer the grippy suede inserts that are not quite so subject to cold and hot temps. They were so vague about the seats and carbon packages. I did see the late availability on the Magnesium wheels and forgot. Will they really be that much lighter/stronger than forged aluminum? I bet they will be a lot more expensive. I completely forgot to mention the suspension. That seems like the only part that could actually produce better lap times. Almost every other mechanical bit seems like a carryover from the ATS-V.
It tops out at $85k, but the CT5-V Black wing has $35,000 worth of options you can add to get it to $120,XXX!?! I have a feeling it will be even more of a unicorn than the ATS-V. On the ATS-V I figure if I can get 4 of the 7 options I want I should just buy the damn thing. If the CT4-V Blackwing has a 2 or 3 year production run like the ATS-V, I still have time to order one new in case the new Z and STI disappoint, but I doubt they will. I don't think large numbers of sales will keep the CT4-V Blackwing in production, but the one saving grace of using a body from the regular CT4 and the mechanicals of the ATS-V means that the engineering and development costs were kept pretty minimal so they should be able to make this car as long as they like.
A very weight focused and good car. Just nowhere near the performance I want and definitely not the practicality. (Then again, the Z is not very practical either)
I've been telling you, CT5 > everything else
Some additional pros/cons/clarifications:
- Recaros are an option
- Curb Weight increased by 77lbs
- Improved cooling
- Newer/Faster responding Mag ride
- Magnesium wheels are an option but late availability
I'll share my thoughts on the CT5 when I have a moment. It's my goal to get one but at $85k+ it is currently not feasible.
Some additional pros/cons/clarifications:
- Recaros are an option
- Curb Weight increased by 77lbs
- Improved cooling
- Newer/Faster responding Mag ride
- Magnesium wheels are an option but late availability
I'll share my thoughts on the CT5 when I have a moment. It's my goal to get one but at $85k+ it is currently not feasible.
Yup, I felt kind of let down. We basically get a less aggressive looking ATS-V update with a nicer interior. A base price of 60K, stretching with options to 75K just isn't in the cards for me--especially with my office likely closing and the prospect of permanent work-from-home on the horizon. I can't justify that cost for a car I'm going to drive a couple thousand miles a year.
This does undercut the M3 price by quite a but I question how many hardcore enthusiasts Cadillac has that are going to step up to this. If the ATS-V sales are any indication, it's probably not many, making this a likely unicorn to try and pickup in a couple years on the used car market.
This does undercut the M3 price by quite a but I question how many hardcore enthusiasts Cadillac has that are going to step up to this. If the ATS-V sales are any indication, it's probably not many, making this a likely unicorn to try and pickup in a couple years on the used car market.
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2GoRNot2G (02-05-2021)
02-02-2021, 06:07 PM
#3416
Registered Member
I know the fully electric cars will be quicker, but the lack of sound and engagement will be a tough pill to swallow for me. I'm still trying to accept Dual Clutch Transmissions...
A very weight focused and good car. Just nowhere near the performance I want and definitely not the practicality. (Then again, the Z is not very practical either)
The car being well over 3,800 lbs. does not excite me. Where did you see anything about the Recaros? I like the design of the quilted leather and I am sure they will be A/C as well, but I would much rather prefer the grippy suede inserts that are not quite so subject to cold and hot temps. They were so vague about the seats and carbon packages. I did see the late availability on the Magnesium wheels and forgot. Will they really be that much lighter/stronger than forged aluminum? I bet they will be a lot more expensive. I completely forgot to mention the suspension. That seems like the only part that could actually produce better lap times. Almost every other mechanical bit seems like a carryover from the ATS-V.
It tops out at $85k, but the CT5-V Black wing has $35,000 worth of options you can add to get it to $120,XXX!?! I have a feeling it will be even more of a unicorn than the ATS-V. On the ATS-V I figure if I can get 4 of the 7 options I want I should just buy the damn thing. If the CT4-V Blackwing has a 2 or 3 year production run like the ATS-V, I still have time to order one new in case the new Z and STI disappoint, but I doubt they will. I don't think large numbers of sales will keep the CT4-V Blackwing in production, but the one saving grace of using a body from the regular CT4 and the mechanicals of the ATS-V means that the engineering and development costs were kept pretty minimal so they should be able to make this car as long as they like.
A very weight focused and good car. Just nowhere near the performance I want and definitely not the practicality. (Then again, the Z is not very practical either)
The car being well over 3,800 lbs. does not excite me. Where did you see anything about the Recaros? I like the design of the quilted leather and I am sure they will be A/C as well, but I would much rather prefer the grippy suede inserts that are not quite so subject to cold and hot temps. They were so vague about the seats and carbon packages. I did see the late availability on the Magnesium wheels and forgot. Will they really be that much lighter/stronger than forged aluminum? I bet they will be a lot more expensive. I completely forgot to mention the suspension. That seems like the only part that could actually produce better lap times. Almost every other mechanical bit seems like a carryover from the ATS-V.
It tops out at $85k, but the CT5-V Black wing has $35,000 worth of options you can add to get it to $120,XXX!?! I have a feeling it will be even more of a unicorn than the ATS-V. On the ATS-V I figure if I can get 4 of the 7 options I want I should just buy the damn thing. If the CT4-V Blackwing has a 2 or 3 year production run like the ATS-V, I still have time to order one new in case the new Z and STI disappoint, but I doubt they will. I don't think large numbers of sales will keep the CT4-V Blackwing in production, but the one saving grace of using a body from the regular CT4 and the mechanicals of the ATS-V means that the engineering and development costs were kept pretty minimal so they should be able to make this car as long as they like.
I for one think the CT5V will outsell the ATSV. This is the only midsize v8 manual sedan with great driving characteristics (ok, we won't know until the reviews come out but GM does a stellar job with chassis/suspension tuning). V1 & V2 CTSVs sold well and the ole GM faithful have money to spend on expensive toys.
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4DRZ (02-03-2021)
02-03-2021, 08:25 AM
#3417
Registered Member
While it's "just" an ATS-V carryover essentially, given that the interior was gutted and the CUE system or whatever that horrific system was thrown out, I'd say it's worth it. It was one of the few things holding me back from an ATS-V. Has anyone here actually ever tried using Caddy's old infotainment system? It was horrific.
02-03-2021, 09:44 AM
#3418
I I don't think large numbers of sales will keep the CT4-V Blackwing in production, but the one saving grace of using a body from the regular CT4 and the mechanicals of the ATS-V means that the engineering and development costs were kept pretty minimal so they should be able to make this car as long as they like.
That's only a partial year since it was launched in 2020, but still.......https://gmauthority.com/blog/gm/cadi...lac-ct4-sales/
One has to wonder how long the CT4 let along the Blackwing itself stays in production
02-03-2021, 08:51 PM
#3419
I have to admit, it is starting to grow on me a bit. Initially the styling with the carbon aero pieces did not look good to me. However, I found two pictures that look pretty decent. (see below) Also, I drove a car yesterday with massaging seats and those are AWESOME! I see that this car does have the availability for "lumbar massage" in the top of 3 interior trim packages. However, I think that means it will have the suede on the back of the seat. WHY??
02-04-2021, 06:31 AM
#3420
Administrator
iTrader: (9)
Am I the only one who thinks the rear spoiler, trunk and tails look silly? Otherwise, yes, very attractive.
Butterbutt
Butterbutt
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tsuintx (02-05-2021)