MyG37 - bimmer guy tracked G37

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I honestly don't believe BMW intended the 335i as a track star. BMW cars have always handled well but it is the M cars that are really what BMW would try to sell as a track/daily car. The 335i took over the 330ci's old spot, and lets face it, despite its great handling it is the extra horsepower that made people think of it as a track car. The 330ci was never said to have sucked in handling, but at the same time most journalists did not even go into track use or bitch about the missing LSD because it did not come with 300hp motor that pulls hard.

I am not trying to defend BMWs way of doing things, but its my opinion that they want to make it very clear the M cars are the true performance cars in their lineup. The 3 series is BMW's basic car for the masses and it makes no sense for them to make it perform as good as a M car for a few enthusiast that may not want to pay for the M3. Aftermarket easily can solve any issues for those enthusiasts.

I think most 335i owners have infiniti and the other competing brands to thank for BMW putting a 300hp motor in the 335i in the first place. If there was no competition the BMWs will likely still be running around with the NA motor in the form of a 330i instead of a turbo 300hp motor.

Deciding between the G37 and 335i goes to personal choice and no one is likely to convince those who choose one way or another who's right.

Quote:

Originally Posted by S6MT (Post 2238498)

stinger,

Okay, I’ll bite.

It sounded like the beginning of an argument… You’re use of the term “delirium” had me a little tweaked and ready to fire back with equally aggressive language. I actually posted something…

Then I read cvt’s post that said “he just bought his car”. At first I thought he was talking about me, but then I read some of your past posts and one that said you just ordered a 335. I also saw that you are serving our Country, which I respect greatly.

Then I read more of your posts and saw that you used to own a G35 like I did, and that you were not in love with the cosmetic re-design (especially the front) of the G, a feeling I share with you. I swore until the day I bought one that I wouldn’t, if nothing else as a protest of them “softening” the style that was so good on the G35.

So, I deleted my post. I don’t really want to be perceived as dumping on somebody’s new car or purchase decision. Everyone has an opinion…

I’m not anti-BMW. Before my ‘04 G35, I had a 740i that I tweaked with springs, wheels, tires. I can’t imagine a better high speed highway cruiser than that 740. BMW’s steering and driving “feel” is IMHO beyond comparison.

I’m sure that the 335i is a wonderful car. I sure don’t want to drag race one in my G37. In a road race, I’m sure the cars are close enough that the driver would make all the difference. Although the steering feel of the G37 might be closer than ever before, I’m confident the 3 is still the benchmark on which all others should be judged. I think the 335i is a better looking car, but the G37 is growing on me.

For me, the lack of a LSD is an insulting, marketing driven de-featuring of an otherwise great performance car. For me, it means that BMW might care more about their poser majority, than their real performance enthusiast base.

It’s not a matter on general “handling” as most people would describe it. It has more to do with what makes for a proper performance car. Some people think proper performance cars can be FWD. I don’t. But I may actually prefer FWD to an RWD open differential car.

The issue is exactly what cvt described about exiting a corner. It’s also about using your right foot to rotate the car. This rotation can be as precise or as crude as the driver or the driver’s mood. On the precise side, if you’re really good, your passenger, unless they are a fellow enthusiast, will not even notice it. Only the driver will know that the proper throttle input resulted in the expected smooth rotation and transitions. On the crude side, it’s a full-blown power slide. Sometimes I just want to be “tail- out”, “back it into the corner” as they say. Responsibly done, it’s fun driving and I enjoy it. Maybe someday I’ll grow up, but I sure hope nobody‘s counting on it. Call me crazy, but sometimes I just love throttle-on over-steer.

The problem for me is, I can’t do either of those things (properly) with an open differential car. It’s doesn’t matter if it has 300 or 500 horsepower, even though it’s RWD, it just ain’t happ’nin’.

Truth be told, if I could afford it, I would buy a new M3. I guess for $70K, BMW would grant me a LSD rear. I’m just glad Infiniti did it for about half the price.

Sorry for being so long-winded. But I thought you deserved my full explanation.

Now that's a discussion! So far in this thread I've been toeing the line a little closer to Stinger. You're post was very well put, and clarified your position quite a bit. I agree with everything you said- and I too think it's a shame that the 335i comes without an LSD. The only thing I'd add is that it performs quite well with out it, even if it doesn't provide you with quite the same precise throttle induced oversteer that the G37 does. On the counter to that, I would argue that the G37 is about 300 lbs overweight, and can sometimes feel like you're pulling a heavy car around that corner... now maybe that's in the revised steering, but a part of it is definitely weight. So each car has their blemishes to me.

Quote:

Originally Posted by S6MT (Post 2238498)

Not a problem S6MT. I still own a G35C and am waiting for my 335i which I can't pick up until late Jan when I get home from deployment. The "delirium" comment was perhaps out of line but the intent of my choice of words was that you were insinuating that BMW somehow left out true performance and driving fun out of their non-M cars by not installing LSD. Seemed a week argument to me, especially for a car company that constantly raises the performance and handling bar for other companies (like Infiniti) to reach. Again, delirium was not a good choice of words.

I think we both got caught up in technical differences in the two cars for aggressive driving scenarios. I don't often find myself in situations where I'm doing power slides, etc., out of corners but I can handle RWD cars so that's why I order them. They're undoubtedly in my mind the most fun to drive. Exception being mustangs, they're a little too squirely for me and can get the driver in a bad situation without much effort. At least the older models. When I'm in the mood to play so to speak, there are certain roads I can be more aggressive on otherwise I'm putting other drivers in danger and that's not cool.

I test drove the 335i and wasn't able to put it through its paces, especially with the SA and my wife in the car. I think your comment about open differentials is of course technically correct when DCS and DTS are turned off and I'll probably feel exactly what you're talking about when I choose that scenerio. Again, BMW for whatever reason chooses not to install LSD but yet they try to compensate for it with traction control in their non-M models and call it an added safety feature. Go figure.:driving:

holy crap! this thread was about a bimmer guy giving props to the G37S...then it became a tech battle...lol.

Quote:

Originally Posted by EJ2000 (Post 2238509)

BLUF, both cars are fun to drive and are very close competitors. Either will have their unique advantages and disadvantages.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cvt (Post 2238519)

holy crap! this thread was about a bimmer guy giving props to the G37S...then it became a tech battle...lol.

lol I equate that to the rivalry of the Redsox and Yankees. You mention both in a single paragraph and that starts the debating. Both are fierce competitors but both are great teams; either of which is capable of winning a world series in any one season.:D

It's really not about which car is better. It's all subjective. And I'm only talking about one issue. For me, it's a "fatal flaw" in the car. For others, it's a complete non-issue.

If you are in the vast majority of drivers who would never think of turning off the traction control, and if traction control intervention (when it's on) does not bother you, then it's not an issue.

In fact, when properly explained to the average driver, the lack of LSD is likely perceived as a feature, with the benifit of never having your car go unexpectedly "sideways". Who would want that?

One man's music is another man's noise...

Auto Week:
"Okay, we do have one complaint. The 335i is being sent out into the world with no limited-slip differential, which doesn’t really seem in keeping with the whole 300-hp-and-rear-drive thing. De-energizing the stability control for sport is largely an exercise in futility, as under hard cornering the unloaded inside rear wheel starts to spin and smoke as that sizeable torque peak arrives.

Interesting thread, both great cars as pretty much all have said but I thought I could add a little fuel to the fire here. I've been looking into a car with a back seat and have settled on the G with 90% certainty. I have about 8 more months until I need the rear seats so I am taking my time researching and am really curious about the 135i, the smaller, lighter little brother to the 335i that will share the same power plant. One of the items I came across was that there will be a dealer option to add an lsd to the 135i, not a factory option, but the part will be available. I'm sure if BMW is introducing this for the little brother you will likely be able to get the dealer to upgrade the 335i as well in the near future. Food for thought anyway.

And then there are these guys, but they are kind of biased...

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...highlight=SLIP

Hey, let's just step back for a moment, no matter what you own, and appreciate the fact that you are lucky and successful enough to be able to pick from among the top 10-20% of "non-super-cars" in the mid-to-high priced sport sedan/coupe segment without getting into the $100K AMGs, M5s, Porsche 911s, Maserati's - how lucky we are.

I see it as a very exciting time in the automotive world - I believe we are at a peak right now - enjoy it. We are heading towards more green transportation as energy prices continue to rise. We are also running out of physical space, and cars are getting smaller.

So, enjoy this "peak" for the next 5 years as we JUST START to see cars like the GTR.... the Corvette ZR1 (BlueDevil), $30K 300+ HP Japanese AWD turbo cars like my previous WRX STi and the ever capable Evo....

Enjoy, and group hug!

And REMEMBER! Honda will NEVER bring the Civic Type R ($22,000!!!) - it is too elite, as well as the most unbelievably great FORD European products like the Cosworth Focus and Merkurs of past, which the US market is starving for, which for some unknown reason we must suffer with the normal blue oval boring stuff.

Quote:

Originally Posted by S6MT (Post 2238536)

And then there are these guys, but they are kind of biased...

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...highlight=SLIP

Yup, they're pretty adamant about the lack of LSD. I get annoyed sometimes with the VDC on my G35 because it would kick in at times when you don't think there's a slip condition. Still, with the VDC off, I never felt I was out of control with power turns and rabbit starts and I'm sure that's a tribute to the LSD gearing. Out of habit I'll probably keep DTS off when I drive my 335i just for the everyday added fun. :D

We’re not arguing, we’re just debating.

The more I read, it’s clear that marketing is trying to protect the new M3.

Somebody pointed out that 335i + chip + coilovers + LSD = M3 fighter. I think I read that a simple chip can take a 335i to 370HP. The turbos changed the rules.

BMW wants to charge a big premium for the M3. Quoting one bimmer forum poster “they don’t want a bunch of 335i tuners going around embarrassing their M3 buyers“.

I bet the engineers told marketing that 300HP deserves LSD, but marketing said “no, only in the M”. I know how evil marketing people can be because “I is one”.

The problem is, BMW can't really control it. There are already aftermarket 335i LSD options. They're expensive now, but they're sure to come down some. The 335i seems like a tuner's paradise.

Damn it, I think I want a 335!

As always, great insight CVT and the majority of the posters on this board. The only thing that I can add is that for as many bmw fanboys you see out there, and I have discovered in the last month or so there are many, you will find the same types on any enthusiast board whether it be this one, or my350 or an evo site, etc etc.

This whole 'this car is better than this car' is a moot point really. You guys all got your cars for one reason or the other. I think CVT has done an excellent job of pointing out that there are indeed rational people out there and that contrary to popular belief, non G37 owners recognize the value that the G37 puts on the table regardless of the bs posts you read from other forums.

Quote:

Originally Posted by S6MT (Post 2238553)

There are some decent chips like the turbo tuner, procede and juicebox. All provide pretty good PSI boost for the turbo to enhance the 3-series. Then BMW comes out with a 1-series that has an identical engine (optional) which by the way, puts its price tag very close to the 335i. Sometimes I don't know what the marketing department is thinking.:dunno:

Yeah, on one of the bimmer threads I read a post that said something like "What are they going to do to the 135i to stop it from cannibalizing the 335i...wooden seats?"

Like I said, I would love a new M3, but a tuned and tweaked 335i that is a match for the M might even be cooler, for a lot less money.