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G37S - Clutch Hydraulic Failure Master/Slave

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Old Jun 15, 2022 | 03:52 PM
  #16  
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Originally Posted by JSolo
^^You look at xrays often?
Since I've seen them before I tend to look for them soaked parts. It did take having to lower the resolution quite a bit to see. Helps that I have two screens at work

Originally Posted by stnd
Thabk you for taking the time to look at the pictures. Yesterday was a very hot day and pedal was failing while driving home from work and I noticed wetness at the reservoir and hose. Is this from me pumping the pedal non stop to get it pressurized or is this possibly my main leak and entry point of air.

That's hard to say, brake fluid is just kryptonite to this hose and they all fail over time.

In my opinion this is what happened:
1 Brake fluid started to deteriorate the CMC line and became gelatinous
2 This gelatin entered your pump and started to make it's way to the CSC
3 Since the CMC just pulls and pushes fluid its not usually the first one to fail, contaminants might just be closer to the exit of the CMC and not touch the seal of the CMC
4 The CSC receives this gunk and start deteriorating since it's the one doing most of the work. Heat and contamination started to kill the CSC.
5 In attempts to regain pressure we start going a bit crazy with the CMC, pumping to Valhalla to regain anything, in the process we push too far, run it dry, pass the remnants of contamination and finish the seal on the CMC

It's a bit difficult to say what will fail next and how could you go about the fix. Many times folks try one thing at a time and the following happens:

1 You install a new CMC and with the now added pressure you strain the CSC even more which will shorten it's life even more
2 You install a new CSC and eventually start having pump failure
3 You install both CMC and CSC and dont inspect the feed line to the CMC and continue to contaminate the system leading to premature failure over time.

It really freaking sucks for MT owners when this happens due to how expensive things can get. You dont have to upgrade CSC but many choose to. By switching over to a Manual throw-out bearing you convert the CSC to a conventional but external slave that in case it blows again you wont have to remove the trans.

Good luck and keep us informed.
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Old Jun 15, 2022 | 04:21 PM
  #17  
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Originally Posted by BULL
Since I've seen them before I tend to look for them soaked parts. It did take having to lower the resolution quite a bit to see. Helps that I have two screens at work



That's hard to say, brake fluid is just kryptonite to this hose and they all fail over time.

In my opinion this is what happened:
1 Brake fluid started to deteriorate the CMC line and became gelatinous
2 This gelatin entered your pump and started to make it's way to the CSC
3 Since the CMC just pulls and pushes fluid its not usually the first one to fail, contaminants might just be closer to the exit of the CMC and not touch the seal of the CMC
4 The CSC receives this gunk and start deteriorating since it's the one doing most of the work. Heat and contamination started to kill the CSC.
5 In attempts to regain pressure we start going a bit crazy with the CMC, pumping to Valhalla to regain anything, in the process we push too far, run it dry, pass the remnants of contamination and finish the seal on the CMC

It's a bit difficult to say what will fail next and how could you go about the fix. Many times folks try one thing at a time and the following happens:

1 You install a new CMC and with the now added pressure you strain the CSC even more which will shorten it's life even more
2 You install a new CSC and eventually start having pump failure
3 You install both CMC and CSC and dont inspect the feed line to the CMC and continue to contaminate the system leading to premature failure over time.

It really freaking sucks for MT owners when this happens due to how expensive things can get. You dont have to upgrade CSC but many choose to. By switching over to a Manual throw-out bearing you convert the CSC to a conventional but external slave that in case it blows again you wont have to remove the trans.

Good luck and keep us informed.
I agree with all of this. I would probably recommend you start by replacing the CMC and the rubber line. You're going to want to replace those no matter what you end up doing (as it's recommended you always replace the CMC when you replace the CSC), so you might as well start with the cheapest option. Then, if that doesn't solve the problem, you should replace the CSC which is expensive (the part itself is cheap, but the labor is significant).
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Old Jun 15, 2022 | 04:22 PM
  #18  
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Originally Posted by BULL
Since I've seen them before I tend to look for them soaked parts. It did take having to lower the resolution quite a bit to see. Helps that I have two screens at work



That's hard to say, brake fluid is just kryptonite to this hose and they all fail over time.

In my opinion this is what happened:
1 Brake fluid started to deteriorate the CMC line and became gelatinous
2 This gelatin entered your pump and started to make it's way to the CSC
3 Since the CMC just pulls and pushes fluid its not usually the first one to fail, contaminants might just be closer to the exit of the CMC and not touch the seal of the CMC
4 The CSC receives this gunk and start deteriorating since it's the one doing most of the work. Heat and contamination started to kill the CSC.
5 In attempts to regain pressure we start going a bit crazy with the CMC, pumping to Valhalla to regain anything, in the process we push too far, run it dry, pass the remnants of contamination and finish the seal on the CMC

It's a bit difficult to say what will fail next and how could you go about the fix. Many times folks try one thing at a time and the following happens:

1 You install a new CMC and with the now added pressure you strain the CSC even more which will shorten it's life even more
2 You install a new CSC and eventually start having pump failure
3 You install both CMC and CSC and dont inspect the feed line to the CMC and continue to contaminate the system leading to premature failure over time.

It really freaking sucks for MT owners when this happens due to how expensive things can get. You dont have to upgrade CSC but many choose to. By switching over to a Manual throw-out bearing you convert the CSC to a conventional but external slave that in case it blows again you wont have to remove the trans.

Good luck and keep us informed.
Thanks again. That is what I'm thinking too and unfortunately the CMC is out of stock everywhere and on backorder. which may make it difficult to replace both cylinders and the hose. So might have to do CSC, clutch, flywheel, some bearing in there someone suggested to start.

I'm not too worried about cost if necessary, just scared of replacing something expensive and it not being to actual problem.
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Old Jun 16, 2022 | 09:14 AM
  #19  
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Originally Posted by stnd
Thanks again. That is what I'm thinking too and unfortunately the CMC is out of stock everywhere and on backorder. which may make it difficult to replace both cylinders and the hose. So might have to do CSC, clutch, flywheel, some bearing in there someone suggested to start.

I'm not too worried about cost if necessary, just scared of replacing something expensive and it not being to actual problem.
The good thing on this aspect is that one has a high possibility of impacting the other, another good thing is that the ENTIRE system's failure points are 3 parts only:

Reservoir hose
CMC
CSC

Everything else is solid and will not fail.
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Old Jun 17, 2022 | 09:20 PM
  #20  
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I ordered the CMC, and will install it myself when it arrives. And if it's not that I'll pay to get the CSC done. With my luck it will be the hardlines.
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Old Jun 29, 2022 | 10:00 PM
  #21  
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CMC came in. I don't see how I can remove the old one, let alone put the new one in. Have read the tips in other threads, but none of them get me the results. Does anyone know if the Coupe is any different in that area (brake booster, clutch master cylinder and abs pump) than the Sedan? I have seen videos and posts but it's always about the Coupe and they say they struggled for a long time, but in my case it just seems physically impossible without removing the abs pump but I don't think I can bleed that myself after. I wonder if the brake booster is the smarter choice to move out of the way.

Last edited by stnd; Jun 29, 2022 at 10:57 PM.
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Old Jun 30, 2022 | 08:18 AM
  #22  
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Originally Posted by stnd
CMC came in. I don't see how I can remove the old one, let alone put the new one in. Have read the tips in other threads, but none of them get me the results. Does anyone know if the Coupe is any different in that area (brake booster, clutch master cylinder and abs pump) than the Sedan? I have seen videos and posts but it's always about the Coupe and they say they struggled for a long time, but in my case it just seems physically impossible without removing the abs pump but I don't think I can bleed that myself after. I wonder if the brake booster is the smarter choice to move out of the way.
Welcome to the arthritis zone!

You'll need a nice set of 1/4 swivel sockets to get loosen the inside, if you're handy sacrifice a wrench as well to loosen the 12mm nut that hold the rod to the CMC.
Invest in a brake/fuel line sockets to remove the pressure line, it will give you more room to remove it.

It's an uncomfortable position to be in and without the right tools you'll spend hours, it's best if you "bench bleed" the CMC. Put the reservoir to the pump and pump it outside. Once you get pressure put caps on the feed and outlet, this will decrease the time spent on bleeding.
The process can be difficult, time consuming and without the right tools is possible that you can strip the nut on the pressure line.

I suspect that the "pop" ended up being the seal of the CSC which you can see a small moisty look that ended up being a result of a weak pump. The reason why it was dry was it leaked once in the CSC however it stopped after you put new fluid. The reason why after the new fluid that it went to the floor is because of the seal of the pump busted, this will equal to a dead pedal with no leaks since the cylinder is just moving inside the bore without creating any pressure.
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Old Jun 30, 2022 | 09:59 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by BULL
Welcome to the arthritis zone!

You'll need a nice set of 1/4 swivel sockets to get loosen the inside, if you're handy sacrifice a wrench as well to loosen the 12mm nut that hold the rod to the CMC.
Invest in a brake/fuel line sockets to remove the pressure line, it will give you more room to remove it.

It's an uncomfortable position to be in and without the right tools you'll spend hours, it's best if you "bench bleed" the CMC. Put the reservoir to the pump and pump it outside. Once you get pressure put caps on the feed and outlet, this will decrease the time spent on bleeding.
The process can be difficult, time consuming and without the right tools is possible that you can strip the nut on the pressure line.

I suspect that the "pop" ended up being the seal of the CSC which you can see a small moisty look that ended up being a result of a weak pump. The reason why it was dry was it leaked once in the CSC however it stopped after you put new fluid. The reason why after the new fluid that it went to the floor is because of the seal of the pump busted, this will equal to a dead pedal with no leaks since the cylinder is just moving inside the bore without creating any pressure.
Thank you for the encouragement and advice. So far it was no problem disconnecting the master inside. The hardline and reservoir on the outside. But removing it from the car is proving impossible with the room available and even if I did I have no clue how I'd get a new one in.


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Old Jun 30, 2022 | 11:43 AM
  #24  
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Your best bet is to remove the bracket from the threaded rod, this should give you more room to play.
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