The dreaded codes.
08-07-2014, 10:23 AM
#1
The dreaded codes.
So. Because Black Betty's car is sooooo cool, and my car totally wants to be exactly like it, she decided she wanted to go into limp mode and throw some codes on Sunday. The codes that appeared were P00021, P0524, P0300, and P3132 (I have no idea what this one was). So, to anyone reading this thread who may have thrown these codes, you know what I'm going through right now.
There are a few threads about these codes, but it did take me awhile to do the research due to the fact that the threads seem to get a little lengthy sometimes. So I'll try and sum up everything from my research, and then take some opinions...
So typically when these three codes are thrown, the issue seems to be a gasket located in the rear timing cover. This gasket is covered by a metal piece that is screwed on (not bolted). I'll show some pictures at the end of this novel.... This gasket is the same for both the G37 and G35. It is a cardboard gasket that has been very notorious (especially as of late) for blowing out. The OEM gasket cannot be found for the G37, but can be found for the G35 (Keep in mind, they are the same). Part Number 13533-JK21A.
If you bring this issue to Infiniti, they will tell you they cannot replace the gasket, as there is no OEM part for it. What they do instead, is they'll replace the entire rear timing cover with the gasket already installed. The reason they do this (apparently) is because those screws do not have a torque spec on them, so Infiniti just bends you over and makes you foot the bill for their engineers being morons. The reason this is a big issue is not only the part (a $30 gasket, compared to a $260 cover), but the labor involved. For Infiniti to replace the rear timing cover, they have to take off all the timing stuff (sprockets, chains, tensioners, guides, pulleys, ect.). So this turns the job into an 18-22 hour job, instead of an 8 hour job.
Black Betty had this same issue and was quoted about $3500 from Infiniti to replace the rear timing cover. What he ended up doing instead was going to Nissan and having them replace the rear timing cover as well as all the timing internals for only about $2900. BB was also told there was no OEM gasket for this, which I guess is technically not a lie...
One of the shadier things I have found was that BB was out of warranty, which is why he ended up having to foot the bill. Meanwhile, IbS still had his warranty (powertrain), and they only replaced the gasket instead of the whole timing cover. Obviously this was to do it more efficiently and save time/money. So that seems pretty messed up.
The replacement gasket is made of the same crappy cardboard material, however the new cover has a metal gasket inside of it (the newer models have metal gaskets as well... I'm not sure what year though).
So now on to my situation... I spoke with an Infiniti tech as well as an independent shop to pick their brains with this (I only spoke over the phone with them). Both of them basically said the same things. "Make sure the oil is topped off, and switch the camshaft sensors (bank 1 and 2) to see if the code changes from one bank to the other". I did both of these items, reset the codes, and the same codes (minus the P0300) came back. So it was at this point I pretty much figured it had to be the gasket.
I called Infiniti up yesterday and ordered the gasket, because I was contemplating on doing this myself. It does not seems like that daunting of a job, my only issue is that I am in the process of packing for a cross country move, and don't have time to pack and fix this car at the same time. So I ended up taking the car to a mechanic yesterday (the same mechanic who did my clutch/flywheel/CSC). I informed him that I already had the gasket ordered, so I would drop it off first thing tomorrow (today). I just went, picked up the part, and went to the mechanic. Upon trying to give him the gasket, he said the issue was the Intake Valve Timing Solenoid (which happens to be what the P0021 code is for). I didn't really read anything about in my research, but obviously it makes sense since that what the code is for. The mechanic called Infiniti and they have the solenoid with the cover in stock for about $600, and can have one without the cover tomorrow for about $300. Obviously I chose without the cover.
They said they found this was the issue because they would tap on the solenoid and it would start working again (sort of like a starter).
So I have two questions I'd like to pose...
First- Could a bad solenoid cause the P0524 (Low Oil Pressure)?
Second (more of an opinion/poll)- Do you think they are going to come back and tell me that the solenoid didn't work, and now they have to do the gasket? If this is the case, do you think I'll still have to pay for that solenoid?
There are a few threads about these codes, but it did take me awhile to do the research due to the fact that the threads seem to get a little lengthy sometimes. So I'll try and sum up everything from my research, and then take some opinions...
So typically when these three codes are thrown, the issue seems to be a gasket located in the rear timing cover. This gasket is covered by a metal piece that is screwed on (not bolted). I'll show some pictures at the end of this novel.... This gasket is the same for both the G37 and G35. It is a cardboard gasket that has been very notorious (especially as of late) for blowing out. The OEM gasket cannot be found for the G37, but can be found for the G35 (Keep in mind, they are the same). Part Number 13533-JK21A.
If you bring this issue to Infiniti, they will tell you they cannot replace the gasket, as there is no OEM part for it. What they do instead, is they'll replace the entire rear timing cover with the gasket already installed. The reason they do this (apparently) is because those screws do not have a torque spec on them, so Infiniti just bends you over and makes you foot the bill for their engineers being morons. The reason this is a big issue is not only the part (a $30 gasket, compared to a $260 cover), but the labor involved. For Infiniti to replace the rear timing cover, they have to take off all the timing stuff (sprockets, chains, tensioners, guides, pulleys, ect.). So this turns the job into an 18-22 hour job, instead of an 8 hour job.
Black Betty had this same issue and was quoted about $3500 from Infiniti to replace the rear timing cover. What he ended up doing instead was going to Nissan and having them replace the rear timing cover as well as all the timing internals for only about $2900. BB was also told there was no OEM gasket for this, which I guess is technically not a lie...
One of the shadier things I have found was that BB was out of warranty, which is why he ended up having to foot the bill. Meanwhile, IbS still had his warranty (powertrain), and they only replaced the gasket instead of the whole timing cover. Obviously this was to do it more efficiently and save time/money. So that seems pretty messed up.
The replacement gasket is made of the same crappy cardboard material, however the new cover has a metal gasket inside of it (the newer models have metal gaskets as well... I'm not sure what year though).
So now on to my situation... I spoke with an Infiniti tech as well as an independent shop to pick their brains with this (I only spoke over the phone with them). Both of them basically said the same things. "Make sure the oil is topped off, and switch the camshaft sensors (bank 1 and 2) to see if the code changes from one bank to the other". I did both of these items, reset the codes, and the same codes (minus the P0300) came back. So it was at this point I pretty much figured it had to be the gasket.
I called Infiniti up yesterday and ordered the gasket, because I was contemplating on doing this myself. It does not seems like that daunting of a job, my only issue is that I am in the process of packing for a cross country move, and don't have time to pack and fix this car at the same time. So I ended up taking the car to a mechanic yesterday (the same mechanic who did my clutch/flywheel/CSC). I informed him that I already had the gasket ordered, so I would drop it off first thing tomorrow (today). I just went, picked up the part, and went to the mechanic. Upon trying to give him the gasket, he said the issue was the Intake Valve Timing Solenoid (which happens to be what the P0021 code is for). I didn't really read anything about in my research, but obviously it makes sense since that what the code is for. The mechanic called Infiniti and they have the solenoid with the cover in stock for about $600, and can have one without the cover tomorrow for about $300. Obviously I chose without the cover.
They said they found this was the issue because they would tap on the solenoid and it would start working again (sort of like a starter).
So I have two questions I'd like to pose...
First- Could a bad solenoid cause the P0524 (Low Oil Pressure)?
Second (more of an opinion/poll)- Do you think they are going to come back and tell me that the solenoid didn't work, and now they have to do the gasket? If this is the case, do you think I'll still have to pay for that solenoid?
08-07-2014, 10:31 AM
#2
Here are the pictures (courtesy of BB).
This is the VQ37 with the from timing cover off and all the internals still on. The gasket in questions is behind they piece of metal that looks like a sideways Y right in the middle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...DSC_0021-6.jpg
This is from a Maxima Engine (VQ35 I believe). The metal piece is now off the car. The big timing chain is off the car, but I don't believe it has to be in order to remove the gasket.
http://i36.tinypic.com/11gly88.jpg
This is the metal piece with a blown out gasket on it.
http://i36.tinypic.com/2z8asyw.jpg
This is the VQ37 with the from timing cover off and all the internals still on. The gasket in questions is behind they piece of metal that looks like a sideways Y right in the middle.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v6...DSC_0021-6.jpg
This is from a Maxima Engine (VQ35 I believe). The metal piece is now off the car. The big timing chain is off the car, but I don't believe it has to be in order to remove the gasket.
http://i36.tinypic.com/11gly88.jpg
This is the metal piece with a blown out gasket on it.
http://i36.tinypic.com/2z8asyw.jpg
08-07-2014, 11:14 AM
#4
You seem to have everything 100% correct IMO. I'm not sure if the intake valve timing control solenoid would cause the low oil pressure condition, but I don't think so. I guess if I were in your shoes I would have the mechanic take off the timing cover and inspect to see if the rear timing cover gasket is defective. If so, you know that you'll have to replace it. If not, maybe try the intake VTC solenoid replacement. But if you replace that and find there's still low pressure because the rear riming cover gasket is indeed blown out, you will kick yourself if you have to pay for the labor for tearing into the engine again.
08-07-2014, 11:30 AM
#5
The issue with having him open the timing cover is that he has to pull a ton of stuff off to get to it. And then drop the oil pan, and just a lot of work. The solenoid he said wouldn't be that bad to get done. So I think what I'm going to do is let him do the solenoid, and if it doesn't fix the issue, I'll have him do the gasket and tell him I refuse to pay for the solenoid or the labor related to the solenoid because it likely did not do anything.
My biggest issue right now is time. I was planning on starting my drive on Monday, so it's just a nightmare that this is all happening right now.
My biggest issue right now is time. I was planning on starting my drive on Monday, so it's just a nightmare that this is all happening right now.
08-07-2014, 12:31 PM
#6
Gotcha. But the problem is that they'll still expect you to pay for the solenoid swap. They will have paid for the labor to change it. It shouldn't be a lot of labor so they might cut you a break if you are paying them to do the rear cover change. But my money is on the cover gasket from personal experience. It's a bitch. And Infiniti isn't going to own up to responsibility for specing a poor part for that application. Nope. It's all your fault. It's not their problem that a crappy cardboard gasket in service to hold hot motor oil under pressure fails. 
Good luck.
Good luck.
Trending Topics
10-22-2014, 10:49 PM
#9
What Happened????
Ok, for those of us who are going through this same problem it's getting really tiresome to read all about what you are going through and then getting to the end of the thread with no summary or conclusion to the story...
It's a lot like getting a massage without the "Happy Ending"
What ended up being the problem and how was it fixed?
What was the final cost to have everything done?
Who ended up performing the work for you?
Please respond so the rest of us can have some answers!
Thanks for the very detailed post as I know that doing this takes up valuable time in the process.
It's a lot like getting a massage without the "Happy Ending"
What ended up being the problem and how was it fixed?
What was the final cost to have everything done?
Who ended up performing the work for you?
Please respond so the rest of us can have some answers!
Thanks for the very detailed post as I know that doing this takes up valuable time in the process.
The following users liked this post:
MStrike (09-15-2020)
10-25-2014, 08:17 PM
#11
Registered User
The easiest way that Tommy Gunz could have been able to tell if he truly had a valid low oil pressure condition was to measure it. It is entirely possible that he could have had two problems simultaneously (i.e. bad solenoid AND blown oil galley gaskets). If your car has a P0524 you are in serious doo doo, since the oil pressure has to be ridiculously low for it to even trigger; far lower than the minimum factory spec.
10-28-2014, 07:04 PM
#12
Hey Guys. Really sorry about taking so long to get back on this. I just moved from NJ to Cali, so it's be pretty insane. and.... I did drive my car (which means yes.. it got fixed).
So here is what happened... i showed up to the shop with the gasket in hand (i got it from the dealership), and my mechanic said that it wasn't the gasket, it was a bad solenoid. He discovered this by essentially testing it like a starter. He simply tapped on it with a hammer and when he did it, it would work for awhile and then get stuck again. So it wasn't the wiring, it was the actual mechanics of the solenoid that was bad. The mechanic gave me two options for the part (both from the dealership). I could either pay $300 for just the solenoid, or $600 for the solenoid and cover. I opted with just the solenoid. I think i paid around $500 total. Since he replaced that I haven't had any problems and I've driven over 8000 miles, so obviously that was the problem.
Again, sorry for the way delayed response.
So here is what happened... i showed up to the shop with the gasket in hand (i got it from the dealership), and my mechanic said that it wasn't the gasket, it was a bad solenoid. He discovered this by essentially testing it like a starter. He simply tapped on it with a hammer and when he did it, it would work for awhile and then get stuck again. So it wasn't the wiring, it was the actual mechanics of the solenoid that was bad. The mechanic gave me two options for the part (both from the dealership). I could either pay $300 for just the solenoid, or $600 for the solenoid and cover. I opted with just the solenoid. I think i paid around $500 total. Since he replaced that I haven't had any problems and I've driven over 8000 miles, so obviously that was the problem.
Again, sorry for the way delayed response.
10-28-2014, 07:29 PM
#13
Hey Guys. Really sorry about taking so long to get back on this. I just moved from NJ to Cali, so it's be pretty insane. and.... I did drive my car (which means yes.. it got fixed).
So here is what happened... i showed up to the shop with the gasket in hand (i got it from the dealership), and my mechanic said that it wasn't the gasket, it was a bad solenoid. He discovered this by essentially testing it like a starter. He simply tapped on it with a hammer and when he did it, it would work for awhile and then get stuck again. So it wasn't the wiring, it was the actual mechanics of the solenoid that was bad. The mechanic gave me two options for the part (both from the dealership). I could either pay $300 for just the solenoid, or $600 for the solenoid and cover. I opted with just the solenoid. I think i paid around $500 total. Since he replaced that I haven't had any problems and I've driven over 8000 miles, so obviously that was the problem.
Again, sorry for the way delayed response.
So here is what happened... i showed up to the shop with the gasket in hand (i got it from the dealership), and my mechanic said that it wasn't the gasket, it was a bad solenoid. He discovered this by essentially testing it like a starter. He simply tapped on it with a hammer and when he did it, it would work for awhile and then get stuck again. So it wasn't the wiring, it was the actual mechanics of the solenoid that was bad. The mechanic gave me two options for the part (both from the dealership). I could either pay $300 for just the solenoid, or $600 for the solenoid and cover. I opted with just the solenoid. I think i paid around $500 total. Since he replaced that I haven't had any problems and I've driven over 8000 miles, so obviously that was the problem.
Again, sorry for the way delayed response.
I think you might be able to sell that gasket pretty easy too
10-28-2014, 08:41 PM
#15
Registered User
