Adam West

iTrader: (3)

Good points Sharp. Speaking of American V8s - the new Ford 5.0L Coyote motor is right there in terms of hp to displacement. Current offering is 302cid & 420hp (11:1 comp, port injection), the Boss 302 offering was 444hp with some more massaging.

Now there are other foreign manufacturers who have had some amazing HP numbers per displacement as well.
The last BMW 4.0 V8 in the M3 called the S56 - made 414hp out of 244cid.
Hyundai has the 5.0 Tau V8 making 429hp out of 307cid.
Audi also has the 4.2 FSI V8 in the RS5 that puts out an impressive 450hp from 254cid.
The Lexus ISF has the 2UR-GSE 5.0 V8 with 416hp.
Porsche has their 4.8L V8 that makes 440hp in the Panamera GTS.

I have probably missed someone else, but as you can see the overseas guys know how to make some impressive numbers out of small displacement V8s naturally aspirated (esp Audi/BMW), but Ford appears to be holding it's own with the Coyote motor, especially when they went a little further with the Boss 302 release. GM/Chrysler always have to use bigger displacement V8s to achieve similar power levels.

warped ideas

My boss has the new BOSS 302 w/ the 444hp. Its a killer engine for the mustangs. It REALLY gets that vehicle going. I'm not a big fan of this shift to small displacement forced induction motors. I do however like the Audi 3.0T engine. The 2.0T's just aren't doing it for me. I test drove a VW CC with the 2.0T and it had no top end.

bluecoupe

Well the redesigned 07 sedan came with the 3.5 and the 3.7 was introduced in the coupe for 08.

Give me a small v8 and I'll be a happy man

socketz67

I think to properly answer the question, we'd really need a perspective. Like many have said, the trend tends to be moving towards small displacement, heavily boosted turbo engines that utilize direct injection and low compression to maximize fuel economy. In that perspective, the VQ is a brute and is relatively outdated. However, if you compare it to naturally aspirated larger displacement, higher compression V-6s, and even a few V-8s, VVEL alone tends to push it near the bleeding edge of what can be squeezed out of a V-6 while still marginally meeting CAFE standards.

Even in the V-8 space, there are people taking LS-6 454 crate engines and putting down enough torque to rip chunks of asphalt from the ground. The push-rod based design is simple, but in many ways, this is actually an advantage because it's easier to control all the critical elements (intake, exhaust, combustion and power) and modify each to suit your end objective (i.e. drive-ability, horsepower, economy, torque, etc.). Audiophiles take often this approach towards quality sound as well; complex digital processing and multi-stage amplifier circuitry is not always the top choice in that space either.

What is interesting to me as a long time motorhead is that we are having this discussion in 2014. IMO, in 10 years, I think the powerplant within the automobile will somehow be removed from the equation (i.e. who cares what your 0-60 is in an autonomous car?) and we will all be raving about software features and creature comforts. As someone that grew up during the musclecar era and built many of the simpler engines of the time, I truly appreciate how far we have come with advancements like the VVEL from Nissan and similar offerings from the Bavarians makes. You almost need an engineering background just to understand how the valvetrain works in these motors. The modern mechanic is now a white collar worker, and hardly the 'grease monkey' of 70s.

This article puts it into perspective for me: http://www.370z.com/MagazineArticles...e-VQ37VHR.aspx

So in my own perspective, I think the VQ37HR is very respectable in terms of high performance, naturally aspirated and reliability. However, I will be the first to admit that my perspective is somewhat biased based some of the things described above.

Adam West

iTrader: (3)

Here's a question, does anyone know of a manufacturer making more horsepower out of a similar displacement V6 (either 3.5 or 3.7L)?

The highest quoted output of the VQ37VHR was in the Nismo 370z and that was 350hp.
The only thing that I think comes close is Hyundai's 348hp 3.8L V6 in the Genesis Coupe. This is with 11.5:1 and direct injection. This is why I said before that Infiniti could easily surpass these other manufacturer's in terms of power output with a little updating in a few of those areas.

socketz67

Would direct injection yield more HP? I know it improves fuel economy because the fuel is more efficiently distributed across the face of the valve, but I wasn't sure if HP was affected. I know that reliability goes down with direct injection based on the fact that the bottoms of the valves no longer take advantage of the detergents in fuel, which is why I assume the Japanese void using it....11:1 is already pretty high for the VQ37, so I wonder what could be gained by increasing the compression a little. I'm not sure where we could gain more HP other than boosting the displacement, but that may require a new block and fuel economy would take a hit. Good discussion nonetheless.

Adam West

iTrader: (3)

Direct injection is definitely becoming more common place now, even with the Japanese manufacturers. Mazda is doing some cool things with their Skyaciv motors (14:1 compression & DI). Honda has their Earthdreams series and also don't forget Subaru starting to use it in their 2.0L Turbo. I was under the impression that converting over a traditional sequential port injection setup would allow the engineers to run even a higher compression ratio and more aggressive timing due to the cooling effect/more efficient atomization of the DI. Seems like a lot of the articles say you have a lot more control over the combustion process as well. You do bring up a good point about potential carbon buildup.

I guess I'll have to see how my wife's new Forester XT Turbo fairs after several years.

socketz67

Is potential carbon build-up the only trade-off? There has to be a reason alot of the Japanese makes still use it as I can't imagine there are any cost/manufacturing advantages over DI. 14:1 compression is nuts. But if you think about it, higher compression is a simple method to gain more power. Add a sophisticated ECU that can manage timing adjustments in microseconds, you can really manage the adverse side-affects such as detonation with very little effort. My guess is that the Skyactive motors require premium correct?

Adam West

iTrader: (3)

I mispoke on the SkyActiv - one of the Wikis says 14:1, but after checking the USA site it shows 13:1 on their motors. Regular fuel.