VQ Motor getting long in the tooth?
08-21-2010, 05:12 PM
#46
Again, too big. Even a V8 is shorter than a I6.
VTEC uses a high RPM cam to vary duration and lift on the valves. VVEL uses an oblong lobe that is controlled by an electric motor to infinitely vary lift and duration. Toyota has VVTI, which is closer to VTEC than VVEL, but different in execution. VVEL is closer to variocam+ or double VANOS, but simpler in execution.
A 40 dollar belt won't kill the wallet.
Infiniti did cheap out on cooling, but they are also correct in assuming that most users won't need an oil cooler.
GM still uses pushrods, and their V8's are considered the standard.
That SOHC J35 from Honda makes 16 less HP than the VQ35HR on 87 gas and with less revs. It also costs about 1/2 as much, if you ever need to replace one. Lets not forget it gets better MPG (by far) and has higher volumetric efficiency.
Infiniti's been focused on ouput, while Honda's been focused on efficiency.
Both engines, as well as the N54/55 and 2GR-FSE have all fallen off of Ward's 10 best.
VTEC uses a high RPM cam to vary duration and lift on the valves. VVEL uses an oblong lobe that is controlled by an electric motor to infinitely vary lift and duration. Toyota has VVTI, which is closer to VTEC than VVEL, but different in execution. VVEL is closer to variocam+ or double VANOS, but simpler in execution.
A 40 dollar belt won't kill the wallet.
Infiniti did cheap out on cooling, but they are also correct in assuming that most users won't need an oil cooler.
GM still uses pushrods, and their V8's are considered the standard.
That SOHC J35 from Honda makes 16 less HP than the VQ35HR on 87 gas and with less revs. It also costs about 1/2 as much, if you ever need to replace one. Lets not forget it gets better MPG (by far) and has higher volumetric efficiency.
Infiniti's been focused on ouput, while Honda's been focused on efficiency.
Both engines, as well as the N54/55 and 2GR-FSE have all fallen off of Ward's 10 best.
but just adding a v8 into the already front heavy Front-Midship platform G sedan won't help at all. You ever drive the Audi S4 that is really front heavy?
08-21-2010, 05:25 PM
#47
One good thing is TL owner will not hear the G "coarse" engine noises. It will just blur by them.
08-21-2010, 07:09 PM
#48
The length of an i4 is usually longer than a V6. Why do you think there's so many FWD V6 cars out there?
Just saying that Nissan's VQ used to be THE v6. Now it's just another V6.
Ecoboost v6 anyone?
08-21-2010, 07:45 PM
#49
Registered User
why would an TT I6 be so out of the question with the next gen G mike?
08-21-2010, 07:53 PM
#50
I think the question is why would they use an I6? A V6 offers better packaging and Nissan likes to use the same engine across many models to get some economies of scale. If they built an I6 it would have fairly limited applications and wouldn't fit in any of their FWD vehicles. Buy using a common V6 architecture across models they can reduce their costs.
08-21-2010, 09:25 PM
#52
Registered User
I think the question is why would they use an I6? A V6 offers better packaging and Nissan likes to use the same engine across many models to get some economies of scale. If they built an I6 it would have fairly limited applications and wouldn't fit in any of their FWD vehicles. Buy using a common V6 architecture across models they can reduce their costs.
of course this would only be limited to their RWD / AWD platforms...i can't imagine an I6 even as small as 2.6 sitting on top of a FWD axle...lol. can you imagine the weight distribution of that car? lol.
08-21-2010, 09:27 PM
#53
Administrator
So the V8's too expensive, the I6's too long and the I4's a lame 4 banger..
The V6's unsmoothness is starting too look like a nice bargain here.. Too bad the VHRs overheat though.
Do the VVEL motors and gears get any sort of water cooling?
The V6's unsmoothness is starting too look like a nice bargain here.. Too bad the VHRs overheat though.
Do the VVEL motors and gears get any sort of water cooling?
08-21-2010, 09:34 PM
#55
I know WHY they use a V6...I am saying an I6 is not out of the question because they can still platform share with future Gs, Zs, GT-Rs, etc. or whatever falls though that would accomodate. They've done it before...there is no reason why they couldn't do it again and still be profitable.
of course this would only be limited to their RWD / AWD platforms...i can't imagine an I6 even as small as 2.6 sitting on top of a FWD axle...lol. can you imagine the weight distribution of that car? lol.
of course this would only be limited to their RWD / AWD platforms...i can't imagine an I6 even as small as 2.6 sitting on top of a FWD axle...lol. can you imagine the weight distribution of that car? lol.
08-22-2010, 12:22 AM
#56
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08-23-2010, 01:23 PM
#58
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Wow! As the OP, I'm surprised to see the amount of feedback received on the topic. I think Majin's post below sums it up well. The output and NVH characteristics of the 2GR-FSE as quite impressive. Believe this motor also uses direct and port fuel injection.
My perspective is that the sound of a vehicle should be tuned via the exhaust, rather than a motor that gets harsh on the upper end of the rpm.
By the way, the idea that the harshness of the latest gen VQs is primarily the result of a timing chain value actuation vs. belt driven actuation is misleading.....its the overall design, with that being A factor, not THE factor.
My perspective is that the sound of a vehicle should be tuned via the exhaust, rather than a motor that gets harsh on the upper end of the rpm.
By the way, the idea that the harshness of the latest gen VQs is primarily the result of a timing chain value actuation vs. belt driven actuation is misleading.....its the overall design, with that being A factor, not THE factor.
I have both the G37 and an IS350 and can say without a doubt that the 2GR-FSE in the Lexus is a million times smoother than the VQHR37 in the G. Going with the auto tranny this time around seems to have blunted some of the NVH but its still prevelent. Still, I don't really mind it too much. Our Lexus is smooth, but it also feels a bit sewing-machine if you know what I mean. The VQ never lets you forget that it is working its butt off to make max power. Plus there is no contest in sound quality between the two. The IS350 barely makes any noise at all but the exhaust sound of a stock VQ always gets my attention....
08-23-2010, 05:24 PM
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Interesting discussion here guys. So where does nissan/infiniti move from here? They could do a v8 in the G but i just don't see it happening. The I6 is out, like someone else mentioned they need an engine to platform share with the rest of the lineup. I4 is underpowered so that basically leaves the V6, which they can't push much further unless they abandon VVEL/introduce better cooling options. Plus the VHR is far behind in terms of efficiency imo. So the next logical step is forced induction right? Do a refinement/redesign of the 3.5HR or 3.7VHR for mild applications like the maxima, altima, base G's etc. Would they just strap a turbo or supercharger on these engines w/ some upgraded cooling or go with a new platform? I know BMW isn't going to let up the peformance race so Infiniti has to get more ponies somehow. I personally would love the turbo 6 for easily upgradeable power.
