Ester Oil?
)
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From: Ottawa, Canada
I don't know how reliable a source MotoIQ is, but their article here give some details of why the Nissan oil is of value.
I just had ester oil put in my G37S, but not sure I can tell any difference.
-Mark
I just had ester oil put in my G37S, but not sure I can tell any difference.
-Mark
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 167
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This article is full of speculation. ie probably-preferably-and maybe's. Also if I recall accurately, Nissan's application for a patent on this oil "technology" was denied. Interestingly the friction reduction figures referenced are the combination of the hard coating and ester oil and no where is the friction reduction for the oil and or coating alone specified. Things that make you wonder---WHY
Last edited by juicybusa; Dec 8, 2009 at 08:32 PM.
I don't know how reliable a source MotoIQ is, but their article here give some details of why the Nissan oil is of value.
I just had ester oil put in my G37S, but not sure I can tell any difference.
-Mark
I just had ester oil put in my G37S, but not sure I can tell any difference.
-Mark
Very Good Article! NO BS!
IMO I will keep using the ester oil after speaking with one of the Mechanics at Infinti.
He explained to me that the Ester oil is better than oils like Mobile one.
He explained that the viscosity of Nisan Ester oil during startup is almost equal to at running temperature which is where of course all of our engine wear really occurs(during start-up). It also has additives that will increase the life of this particular engine. He said sure you can use other oils but the Nissan Ester oil is best for this Engine.
I asked him if any other similar oils would do. He said there is a few ester based oils that are almost as good but lack some of these protective additives. He said over time there should be some on the market for less.
So in short you can use any oil but the Nissan Ester oil is our best protection.
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 89
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Very Good Article! NO BS!
IMO I will keep using the ester oil after speaking with one of the Mechanics at Infinti.
He explained to me that the Ester oil is better than oils like Mobile one.
He explained that the viscosity of Nisan Ester oil during startup is almost equal to at running temperature which is where of course all of our engine wear really occurs(during start-up). It also has additives that will increase the life of this particular engine. He said sure you can use other oils but the Nissan Ester oil is best for this Engine.
I asked him if any other similar oils would do. He said there is a few ester based oils that are almost as good but lack some of these protective additives. He said over time there should be some on the market for less.
So in short you can use any oil but the Nissan Ester oil is our best protection.
IMO I will keep using the ester oil after speaking with one of the Mechanics at Infinti.
He explained to me that the Ester oil is better than oils like Mobile one.
He explained that the viscosity of Nisan Ester oil during startup is almost equal to at running temperature which is where of course all of our engine wear really occurs(during start-up). It also has additives that will increase the life of this particular engine. He said sure you can use other oils but the Nissan Ester oil is best for this Engine.
I asked him if any other similar oils would do. He said there is a few ester based oils that are almost as good but lack some of these protective additives. He said over time there should be some on the market for less.
So in short you can use any oil but the Nissan Ester oil is our best protection.
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 273
Likes: 2
From: Council Bluffs Iowa
This article is full of speculation. ie probably-preferably-and maybe's. Also if I recall accurately, Nissan's application for a patent on this oil "technology" was denied. Interestingly the friction reduction figures referenced are the combination of the hard coating and ester oil and no where is the friction reduction for the oil and or coating alone specified. Things that make you wonder---WHY
development in depth. Here's my response....take it or leave it.
You are coreect, the European patent was denied. It was
denied because it was so vague in what "made it special"
that it could only be concluded that the application was
based on the oil containing suspended carbon particles...
which is not new technology...remember ARCO GRAPHITE
in the 70s. I personally believe that Nissan was intentionally
proctecting their proprietory formula to the point they knew
they wouldn't get approved...WHY? Because it give them
current and future infringement protection until all appeal
processes expire.....a legal move that could take years
meanwhile no one else can replicate their formula.
In regards to their friction reduction claims....your are
right...they don't reveal what they are comparing their
formula too and under what conditions. BUT, that
doesn't mean that the theory and/or results are
false or intentionally misleading does it?
It appears that Nissan developed their designer oil
for two reasons. One...they developed the VVEL
systems which has some unique parts and tolerences
with some tough lubrication requirements that
they had to address...and Two...they needed a
"factory fill" oil that raised their "fleet mileage"
and could meet future CAFE standards. While
other commercial Ester oils like Motul/Eaon/Redline/Schaeffer
etc could meet the lubrication and mileage requirements
they were/are unable to meet the CAFE standards due
to high levels of additives in there blends...simple as that.
hence...nano technology to the rescue...they engineered
an inert additive that works with their coating and
won't pollute. I'm still amazed at the people who
think that is such a hoax. My response to those
who think that.....It works well enough that Nissan
uses it as their factory fill to increase mileage
and pollution standards doesn't it?
I'm personally glad to see another manufacturer than Ford
actively designing and marketing their own proprietory
formulas designed for their engines. It helps them
know exactly where they can or can't tweak their
designs. Many are just finding out that Fords'
semi-syn is outperforming the major label full
synthetics in wear and price for up to 10k OCIs
I look at it like this: Who other than Nissan
really cares or needs to know what works best with
their proprietory engine coatings? Racing teams
have been using proprietory blends tailored to their
engines for years...while making the public believe that
they were using off-the-shelf brands. I guarentee the
blends they are using are nothing like the stuff they
are trying to sell you and me on their commercials
Many here think Nissan is just pulling a marketing
scam on them when in fact they are already supporting
real marketing scams fostered by years of watching oil commercials.
Last edited by JonfromCB; Dec 9, 2009 at 11:16 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 167
Likes: 0
Juicy', Good questions. I've been researching Nissan's oil
development in depth. Here's my response....take it or leave it.
You are coreect, the European patent was denied. It was
denied because it was so vague in what "made it special"
that it could only be concluded that the application was
based on the oil containing suspended carbon particles...
which is not new technology...remember ARCO GRAPHITE
in the 70s. I personally believe that Nissan was intentionally
proctecting their proprietory formula to the point they knew
they wouldn't get approved...WHY? Because it give them
current and future infringement protection until all appeal
processes expire.....a legal move that could take years
meanwhile no one else can replicate their formula.
In regards to their friction reduction claims....your are
right...they don't reveal what they are comparing their
formula too and under what conditions. BUT, that
doesn't mean that the theory and/or results are
false or intentionally misleading does it?
It appears that Nissan developed their designer oil
for two reasons. One...they developed the VVEL
systems which has some unique parts and tolerences
with some tough lubrication requirements that
they had to address...and Two...they needed a
"factory fill" oil that raised their "fleet mileage"
and could meet future CAFE standards. While
other commercial Ester oils like Motul/Eaon/Redline/Schaeffer
etc could meet the lubrication and mileage requirements
they were/are unable to meet the CAFE standards due
to high levels of additives in there blends...simple as that.
hence...nano technology to the rescue...they engineered
an inert additive that works with their coating and
won't pollute. I'm still amazed at the people who
think that is such a hoax. My response to those
who think that.....It works well enough that Nissan
uses it as their factory fill to increase mileage
and pollution standards doesn't it?
I'm personally glad to see another manufacturer than Ford
actively designing and marketing their own proprietory
formulas designed for their engines. It helps them
know exactly where they can or can't tweak their
designs. Many are just finding out that Fords'
semi-syn is outperforming the major label full
synthetics in wear and price for up to 10k OCIs
I look at it like this: Who other than Nissan
really cares or needs to know what works best with
their proprietory engine coatings? Racing teams
have been using proprietory blends tailored to their
engines for years...while making the public believe that
they were using off-the-shelf brands. I guarentee the
blends they are using are nothing like the stuff they
are trying to sell you and me on their commercials
Many here think Nissan is just pulling a marketing
scam on them when in fact they are already supporting
real marketing scams fostered by years of watching oil commercials.
development in depth. Here's my response....take it or leave it.
You are coreect, the European patent was denied. It was
denied because it was so vague in what "made it special"
that it could only be concluded that the application was
based on the oil containing suspended carbon particles...
which is not new technology...remember ARCO GRAPHITE
in the 70s. I personally believe that Nissan was intentionally
proctecting their proprietory formula to the point they knew
they wouldn't get approved...WHY? Because it give them
current and future infringement protection until all appeal
processes expire.....a legal move that could take years
meanwhile no one else can replicate their formula.
In regards to their friction reduction claims....your are
right...they don't reveal what they are comparing their
formula too and under what conditions. BUT, that
doesn't mean that the theory and/or results are
false or intentionally misleading does it?
It appears that Nissan developed their designer oil
for two reasons. One...they developed the VVEL
systems which has some unique parts and tolerences
with some tough lubrication requirements that
they had to address...and Two...they needed a
"factory fill" oil that raised their "fleet mileage"
and could meet future CAFE standards. While
other commercial Ester oils like Motul/Eaon/Redline/Schaeffer
etc could meet the lubrication and mileage requirements
they were/are unable to meet the CAFE standards due
to high levels of additives in there blends...simple as that.
hence...nano technology to the rescue...they engineered
an inert additive that works with their coating and
won't pollute. I'm still amazed at the people who
think that is such a hoax. My response to those
who think that.....It works well enough that Nissan
uses it as their factory fill to increase mileage
and pollution standards doesn't it?
I'm personally glad to see another manufacturer than Ford
actively designing and marketing their own proprietory
formulas designed for their engines. It helps them
know exactly where they can or can't tweak their
designs. Many are just finding out that Fords'
semi-syn is outperforming the major label full
synthetics in wear and price for up to 10k OCIs
I look at it like this: Who other than Nissan
really cares or needs to know what works best with
their proprietory engine coatings? Racing teams
have been using proprietory blends tailored to their
engines for years...while making the public believe that
they were using off-the-shelf brands. I guarentee the
blends they are using are nothing like the stuff they
are trying to sell you and me on their commercials
Many here think Nissan is just pulling a marketing
scam on them when in fact they are already supporting
real marketing scams fostered by years of watching oil commercials.
This sounds like a classic case of Mobil 1 vs Amsoil/Motul.
Motul and Amsoil readily provide all their oil data.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 273
Likes: 2
From: Council Bluffs Iowa
While I understand what both you and Mike are saying..... It ain't gonna happen!
If you follow "bobistheoilguy" site you'll see discussion upon discussion with
"virgin oil analisis" for every major brand with Triboligists and Chemists both
speculating and argueing what additives and base oils are used in any given product.
Not one company is going to divulge their proprietory formulas....period.
Nissan giving their oil up for a complete and comparitive independent
analysis would be like the US giving their new spy satellite to China for inspection....
Manufacturers apply for patents to protect their inventions....no different with Nissan.
Nissan has already told us more than any other brand by divulging
the use of nanoparticles of a "diamond like nature" similar to their
plasma coating, suspended in true synthetic PAOs....and the amounts.
Last thing Nissan is going to do is start a marketing and liability war
with an oil company or companies....they don't need to do they?
They engineered an oil that increases their fleet mileage, exceeds
CAFE standards in their engines, solved the noise and lubrication
issues in the new VVEL system, and sell it to whoever wants it.
And I'll guarentee you, if it does what Nissan says and implies,
none of the oil companies are going to do a straight-up comparison either...
until they have a similar product that is better in some way.
Here's another thought to ponder....Just think of how much
any major motor oil company would like to claim they
are the factory fill in all Nissan cars because their oil
reduces friction and increases mileage in Nissan's
VVEL and plasma coated engines....That certainly would
have saved Nissan alot of time, money and effort
of trying to compete in another huge market...motor oil.
If you follow "bobistheoilguy" site you'll see discussion upon discussion with
"virgin oil analisis" for every major brand with Triboligists and Chemists both
speculating and argueing what additives and base oils are used in any given product.
Not one company is going to divulge their proprietory formulas....period.
Nissan giving their oil up for a complete and comparitive independent
analysis would be like the US giving their new spy satellite to China for inspection....
Manufacturers apply for patents to protect their inventions....no different with Nissan.
Nissan has already told us more than any other brand by divulging
the use of nanoparticles of a "diamond like nature" similar to their
plasma coating, suspended in true synthetic PAOs....and the amounts.
Last thing Nissan is going to do is start a marketing and liability war
with an oil company or companies....they don't need to do they?
They engineered an oil that increases their fleet mileage, exceeds
CAFE standards in their engines, solved the noise and lubrication
issues in the new VVEL system, and sell it to whoever wants it.
And I'll guarentee you, if it does what Nissan says and implies,
none of the oil companies are going to do a straight-up comparison either...
until they have a similar product that is better in some way.
Here's another thought to ponder....Just think of how much
any major motor oil company would like to claim they
are the factory fill in all Nissan cars because their oil
reduces friction and increases mileage in Nissan's
VVEL and plasma coated engines....That certainly would
have saved Nissan alot of time, money and effort
of trying to compete in another huge market...motor oil.
Last edited by JonfromCB; Dec 9, 2009 at 04:32 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 167
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In this transparent information age, the attitude of any company that will not openly and independently compare it's product to it's purported inferior competition is much akin to someone instructing you to do something "because I said so" LOL
Last edited by juicybusa; Dec 10, 2009 at 10:03 PM.
Registered User
Joined: Jul 2008
Posts: 178
Likes: 1
From: Greer, SC
Jon thanks for going to all the trouble to try and educate people on the Nissan ester oil. I did not know the Nissan branded oil was conventional oil. Yikes. Very costly for conventional oil. I run Castrol Syntec in my 07 Nismo 350Z and my sons 08 Xterra. I use either K & N or Mobil 1 oil filters on all my cars. Both filters are made at the same factory. However in the 09 G37 I agree I'll probably go with Redline 5W-30 which contains ester and a K & N/Mobil 1 oil filter.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 273
Likes: 2
From: Council Bluffs Iowa
Lots of info' and questions here...Here is some info' that I hope will be helpful.
The VQ37VHR is a very different engine from the VQ35, The VVEL system
is mainly what makes it different. This is thoroughly explained in
Nissans technical papers (white papers) on the web and by web searching
"Junichi Yajima" the design engineer.
On the Nissan Ester. It is a semi-synthetic oil with very little ester in it.
What makes it unique is it has nano-particles of diamonds/and or altered
carbon particles suspended in the "ester" that significantly reduce friction
on the plasma coated engine parts Nissan uses.....Here is fairly good
article that sumarizes it....
Revenge of the Nerd - Nissan in the sump with diamonds?
If your dealer is charging any more than $12/quart for the Nissan Ester, they
are ripping you off. You can now buy it over the internet much cheaper
and at least two dealerships are marketing "oil change kits"...5 quarts plus
filter, plus washer for around $80 delivered.
If you like Redline....check OG Racing site....about $9 quart delivered if you
buy it by the case...
I can't tell you about Motul, If I wanted to know I'd ask Mike.
If you want to see some UOAs you can subscribe to Terry Dysons data
base for around $100, but you won't be able to copy, download or
"share" the information...Then you can decide for yourself what works
and what doesn't. The best numbers I've personally seen posted
on a "public forum" were from a guy using German Castrol....but
he only had one UOA, not a series and not good enough for
me to become a "convert" yet, but good enough that I'd really
like to see a string of several runs before I come to any
conclusions. Hope this is useful. Good luck
The VQ37VHR is a very different engine from the VQ35, The VVEL system
is mainly what makes it different. This is thoroughly explained in
Nissans technical papers (white papers) on the web and by web searching
"Junichi Yajima" the design engineer.
On the Nissan Ester. It is a semi-synthetic oil with very little ester in it.
What makes it unique is it has nano-particles of diamonds/and or altered
carbon particles suspended in the "ester" that significantly reduce friction
on the plasma coated engine parts Nissan uses.....Here is fairly good
article that sumarizes it....
Revenge of the Nerd - Nissan in the sump with diamonds?
If your dealer is charging any more than $12/quart for the Nissan Ester, they
are ripping you off. You can now buy it over the internet much cheaper
and at least two dealerships are marketing "oil change kits"...5 quarts plus
filter, plus washer for around $80 delivered.
If you like Redline....check OG Racing site....about $9 quart delivered if you
buy it by the case...
I can't tell you about Motul, If I wanted to know I'd ask Mike.
If you want to see some UOAs you can subscribe to Terry Dysons data
base for around $100, but you won't be able to copy, download or
"share" the information...Then you can decide for yourself what works
and what doesn't. The best numbers I've personally seen posted
on a "public forum" were from a guy using German Castrol....but
he only had one UOA, not a series and not good enough for
me to become a "convert" yet, but good enough that I'd really
like to see a string of several runs before I come to any
conclusions. Hope this is useful. Good luck