Working a manual transmission
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revmatching does not prevent wear on your synchros.
Try this.
go 25 mph and revmatch a downshift into 1st and see how easy it is to get into gear.
Now, double clutch into 1st gear and see how easy it is. Case and point.
The G has more than enough torque, and the engine mapping is robust enough that anything over ~650RPM will have no lugging, even at WOT.
As for steeper roads, unless you're coming down a mountain, use the brakes; that's what they're for.
@ UCLA_Bruin: Not known for sure since there's not any 2nd gen G's out there with that many miles, but it should go at least 100k with no issues driven properly. I'd say it should go more than 200k, since my old pathfinder 5MT still had synchros left at 240k miles...
Try this.
go 25 mph and revmatch a downshift into 1st and see how easy it is to get into gear.
Now, double clutch into 1st gear and see how easy it is. Case and point.
The G has more than enough torque, and the engine mapping is robust enough that anything over ~650RPM will have no lugging, even at WOT.
As for steeper roads, unless you're coming down a mountain, use the brakes; that's what they're for.
@ UCLA_Bruin: Not known for sure since there's not any 2nd gen G's out there with that many miles, but it should go at least 100k with no issues driven properly. I'd say it should go more than 200k, since my old pathfinder 5MT still had synchros left at 240k miles...
Thanks for stating the obvious, but when have I said that rev matching will not wear the synchros?
Driving the car wears out the moving parts in the engine, the clutch, wheels, and brakes.
You buy something to use it, simple as that. Downshifting with rev matching will not have a noticeable effect on the lifespan of the synchros. If it does, you bought a pretty shoddy car.
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This debate is one of those theoretical vs practical situations. Synchros mitigate any imperfect shifts, ie when the rpm of the latter gear doesn't quite match what the engine and wheels want to go at. This can happen on sequential shifts, not just on skip shifts. Theoretically, if you skip a gear and match up the revs 100.000000000%, then the synchros won't be used, and you're golden. However, the likelihood of doing said shift perfectly is much much less than if you were going through the gears one by one, because of the greater RPM difference and margin for error. Let me refer to the gear ratios for better illustration:
First ------- 3.79
Second ------ 2.32
Third ------- 1.62
Fourth ------ 1.27
Fifth ------- 1.00
Sixth ------- 0.79
1->2: 0.61
2->3: 0.70
3->4: 0.78
4->5: 0.79
5->6: 0.79
So for example, if you're going at 5k rpm in 2nd, to shift to 3rd, your rpms need to be at 5000*0.70=3500 rpm. However, if you want to go from 2nd->4th at 5k originally, once you engage the clutch with 4th gear selected, you need to be at 5000*0.70*0.78=2730 rpm. As you can see, it's a bigger difference between the initial and latter gears, and thus, a longer wait for the rpms to drop. With this longer wait, it's harder to get the timing down 100%, and the room for error is greater, thus, the increased likelihood of synchro damage.
In the end, I think the safe, generic advice is: it's much nicer on your gearbox if you sequentially shift, but if you're some superstar shifter with impeccable timing, then skip shift all you want, as long as you're not driving my car.
I hope this clears it up for some people. When I first started learning how to drive manual, I didn't really understand how to time shifts and was really frustrated. However, once I understood that the gears merely translate engine RPM to wheel rpm, and looked up the ratios and the shifting ratios, then it all made perfect sense.
First ------- 3.79
Second ------ 2.32
Third ------- 1.62
Fourth ------ 1.27
Fifth ------- 1.00
Sixth ------- 0.79
1->2: 0.61
2->3: 0.70
3->4: 0.78
4->5: 0.79
5->6: 0.79
So for example, if you're going at 5k rpm in 2nd, to shift to 3rd, your rpms need to be at 5000*0.70=3500 rpm. However, if you want to go from 2nd->4th at 5k originally, once you engage the clutch with 4th gear selected, you need to be at 5000*0.70*0.78=2730 rpm. As you can see, it's a bigger difference between the initial and latter gears, and thus, a longer wait for the rpms to drop. With this longer wait, it's harder to get the timing down 100%, and the room for error is greater, thus, the increased likelihood of synchro damage.
In the end, I think the safe, generic advice is: it's much nicer on your gearbox if you sequentially shift, but if you're some superstar shifter with impeccable timing, then skip shift all you want, as long as you're not driving my car.
I hope this clears it up for some people. When I first started learning how to drive manual, I didn't really understand how to time shifts and was really frustrated. However, once I understood that the gears merely translate engine RPM to wheel rpm, and looked up the ratios and the shifting ratios, then it all made perfect sense.
^hahah.
Nice explanation, toastmaster.
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Nice explanation, toastmaster.
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From: Clifton Park, NY and NYC
What? I don't think they're discouraging anybody. They're offering different explanations for a better understanding of how MTs work.
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No it is TMI for a noob to a stick. let the dude drive it normal first ehn he can ask about the heet toe action and how the synchros work TMI the poor guys head is spinning.
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From: Clifton Park, NY and NYC
haha, yea I guess I can see that.
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This debate is one of those theoretical vs practical situations. Synchros mitigate any imperfect shifts, ie when the rpm of the latter gear doesn't quite match what the engine and wheels want to go at. This can happen on sequential shifts, not just on skip shifts. Theoretically, if you skip a gear and match up the revs 100.000000000%, then the synchros won't be used, and you're golden. However, the likelihood of doing said shift perfectly is much much less than if you were going through the gears one by one, because of the greater RPM difference and margin for error. Let me refer to the gear ratios for better illustration:
First ------- 3.79
Second ------ 2.32
Third ------- 1.62
Fourth ------ 1.27
Fifth ------- 1.00
Sixth ------- 0.79
1->2: 0.61
2->3: 0.70
3->4: 0.78
4->5: 0.79
5->6: 0.79
So for example, if you're going at 5k rpm in 2nd, to shift to 3rd, your rpms need to be at 5000*0.70=3500 rpm. However, if you want to go from 2nd->4th at 5k originally, once you engage the clutch with 4th gear selected, you need to be at 5000*0.70*0.78=2730 rpm. As you can see, it's a bigger difference between the initial and latter gears, and thus, a longer wait for the rpms to drop. With this longer wait, it's harder to get the timing down 100%, and the room for error is greater, thus, the increased likelihood of synchro damage.
In the end, I think the safe, generic advice is: it's much nicer on your gearbox if you sequentially shift, but if you're some superstar shifter with impeccable timing, then skip shift all you want, as long as you're not driving my car.
I hope this clears it up for some people. When I first started learning how to drive manual, I didn't really understand how to time shifts and was really frustrated. However, once I understood that the gears merely translate engine RPM to wheel rpm, and looked up the ratios and the shifting ratios, then it all made perfect sense.
First ------- 3.79
Second ------ 2.32
Third ------- 1.62
Fourth ------ 1.27
Fifth ------- 1.00
Sixth ------- 0.79
1->2: 0.61
2->3: 0.70
3->4: 0.78
4->5: 0.79
5->6: 0.79
So for example, if you're going at 5k rpm in 2nd, to shift to 3rd, your rpms need to be at 5000*0.70=3500 rpm. However, if you want to go from 2nd->4th at 5k originally, once you engage the clutch with 4th gear selected, you need to be at 5000*0.70*0.78=2730 rpm. As you can see, it's a bigger difference between the initial and latter gears, and thus, a longer wait for the rpms to drop. With this longer wait, it's harder to get the timing down 100%, and the room for error is greater, thus, the increased likelihood of synchro damage.
In the end, I think the safe, generic advice is: it's much nicer on your gearbox if you sequentially shift, but if you're some superstar shifter with impeccable timing, then skip shift all you want, as long as you're not driving my car.
I hope this clears it up for some people. When I first started learning how to drive manual, I didn't really understand how to time shifts and was really frustrated. However, once I understood that the gears merely translate engine RPM to wheel rpm, and looked up the ratios and the shifting ratios, then it all made perfect sense.
You have most of the theory right, but 1 mistake.
Even with a 100% perfect revmatch, the synchros will still be used without double clutching.
http://auto.howstuffworks.com/transmission1.htm
The red shaft and gears are called the layshaft. These are also connected as a single piece, so all of the gears on the layshaft and the layshaft itself spin as one unit. The green shaft and the red shaft are directly connected through their meshed gears so that if the green shaft is spinning, so is the red shaft. In this way, the layshaft receives its power directly from the engine whenever the clutch is engaged.
The clutch engages your layshaft to the engine.
So skipping gears (and regular shifting) still uses the synchros.
Double clutching will bring the layshaft speed to match your transmission's gear.
At the end of the day, the synchros are there to make shifting easier and faster. They're made for sequential shifts, but can handle non-sequential, at the cost of excess wear.
Everyone can do what they want, but don't go crying to your dealership if your synchros go out and your gears are grinding and/or get difficult to put in.
Last edited by Mike; Dec 22, 2008 at 05:10 AM.
Although I learned stick on a couple friends' cars, this is the first manual vehicle I've purchased. I wouldn't learn on this car if I were you. Pick up some experience on a beater first. You'll appreciate this car's capabilities once you master the art. 
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^ civics are by far the easiest car to drive in a MT. The clutch is so soft & easy to use. I tried this on a Civic si and i was flabbergasted, haha.
to the OP: get a MT!!~
to the OP: get a MT!!~
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Joined: Aug 2008
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From: Clifton Park, NY and NYC
Yea since it's winter and you live in Queens, I would recommend getting a cheap civic off of craigslist that is in good condition for the cheapest price and learn from that and drive it around during the winter.. then when spring comes around you will be ready to handle a G. But unlike you.. I was born ready for the G muwhahaha 
