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Also, one of the software components he relies on heavily is something called DropBox, and unfortunately I can't get DropBox installed on this old Windows 7 laptop. So now I'm thinking of commandeering my daughters brand new Windows 10 laptop for this project. Pretty sure I'm going to get push back from that idea.
You should be able to use their website: dropbox.com from your old Windows 7 PC.
You should be able to use their website: dropbox.com from your old Windows 7 PC.
Originally Posted by iCrap
Dropbox does download and install fine on Win7, btw. I use it all the time on old machines.
I hear you, and expected the same. But it's not happening... either run as an Administrator, or even having downloaded the full, off-line installer. Eugene took control of the laptop and was stumped too. So... it's a no-go on DropBox for this laptop. Except for the browser, of course. And then there's the thumbdrive SneakerNet technique with my primary workstation, which has DropBox installed just fine.
I think we can work around his requirement for DropBox, but if it truly becomes a problem then I can borrow one of my kids laptops. We used stim money last month to buy them each a brand new laptop for college. It was earlier than planned, but then we never planned on the stim either, so good timing actually.
I was provided a PDF on data logging instructions. I need to follow the instructions and supply my first log file to Eugene. Actually, first I need to figure out these instructions. Feels somewhat complicated.
Well, this will be interesting. In addition to logging while starting the car, and just general driving around, he needs a "pull", which I'm assuming for the 6MT crowd means 3rd gear. According to his instructions, ease into WOT from 2500 to 3000 RPM and keep it floored until the rev limiter slaps you back. Yikes!
Need to think and plan on this. Probably do some experimentation on logging, as well as getting comfortable with a location for this WOT pull. This might take a few days.
Finally established some confidence how to configure data logging according to Eugene's requirements. The ProECU software is really kludgy, clearly designed by computer engineers, not software specialists. However, I pushed through it and came up with a simple document on exactly what steps to take. And today I did a dry run of data logging, to get a feel for how to actually do this. So I recorded 11 minutes of a planned out route, which resulted in a 2.5 mb log file. That's actually a pretty small file. Hmm.
I seem overly focused on this "WOT Pull" request, whereas Eugene is more focused on real-world driving behavior... so that's what I'm going to do next. I think my first set of log files will be two logs: one with 20 minutes of around town and highway on/off driving, and another containing a WOT pull in 3rd gear. Oh, and apparently he wants me to start logging when the engine is cold, whereas the WOT pull needs to take place when the engine is warmed up.
I've come to the conclusion that I've been over-thinking what goes into the log. Need to be more chill about it.
Do a WOT pull in 5th or 6th too - not to redline, but to show full throttle under load. Should help him tune around bogging issues and give you more usable passing grunt without downshifting.
Edited to add: We used to look at 40-70 runs in each gear. In 1st in this car maybe only to readline... don't want to push it to 11K like we did with rotaries.
Finally established some confidence how to configure data logging according to Eugene's requirements. The ProECU software is really kludgy, clearly designed by engineers, not software specialists. However, I pushed through it and came up with a simple document on exactly what steps to take. And today I did a dry run of data logging, to get a feel for how to actually do this. So I recorded 11 minutes of a planned out route, which resulted in a 2.5 mb log file. That's not terribly large, IMO, and I believe I should go bigger.
I seem overly focused on this "WOT Pull" request, whereas Eugene is more focused on real-world driving behavior... so that's what I'm going to do next. I think my first set of log files will be two logs: one with 20 minutes of around town and highway on/off driving, and another containing a WOT pull in 3rd gear. Oh, and apparently he wants me to start logging when the engine is cold, whereas the WOT pull needs to take place when the engine is warmed up.
I've come to the conclusion that I've been over-thinking what goes into the log. Need to be more chill about it.
lol yeah you’re for sure over thinking it a bit. Once you learn how to record a datalog on whatever software you are using it’s as simple as following the tuners directions and clicking record.
Finally established some confidence how to configure data logging according to Eugene's requirements. The ProECU software is really kludgy, clearly designed by engineers, not software specialists. However, I pushed through it and came up with a simple document on exactly what steps to take. And today I did a dry run of data logging, to get a feel for how to actually do this. So I recorded 11 minutes of a planned out route, which resulted in a 2.5 mb log file. That's not terribly large, IMO, and I believe I should go bigger.
I seem overly focused on this "WOT Pull" request, whereas Eugene is more focused on real-world driving behavior... so that's what I'm going to do next. I think my first set of log files will be two logs: one with 20 minutes of around town and highway on/off driving, and another containing a WOT pull in 3rd gear. Oh, and apparently he wants me to start logging when the engine is cold, whereas the WOT pull needs to take place when the engine is warmed up.
I've come to the conclusion that I've been over-thinking what goes into the log. Need to be more chill about it.
For my tune, Eugene needed like 3-4 WOT pulls to dial in the MAF scaling (and whatever else) because that info needed to be set before getting any other types of datalogs. I used 3rd gear in the 6MT. It won't be quite as bad in yours with 4.08 gears, lol. I always got nervous hitting redline in 3rd. But you have the understanding correct, just ease into the accelerator starting around 2,000-2,500rpm and run it all the way to the limiter.
For my tune, Eugene needed like 3-4 WOT pulls to dial in the MAF scaling (and whatever else) because that info needed to be set before getting any other types of datalogs. I used 3rd gear in the 6MT. It won't be quite as bad in yours with 4.08 gears, lol. I always got nervous hitting redline in 3rd. But you have the understanding correct, just ease into the accelerator starting around 2,000-2,500rpm and run it all the way to the limiter.
You're right that the 4.083 gears will have me at a lower top speed when the rev limiter grabs me by the *****. 3rd gear... I believe 85 to 90 mph, but I'll know for sure this weekend.
What???
Under acceleration, the "over rev" fuel cut is VERY soft and gentle on the G37.
(With the stock tune, the throttle bodies start to close at about 7,100 RPM)
On a different note, here is a graph I made for a Customer last year that is perfect for you!
Assuming stock height tires (~26.9") WITH your 4.083 diff, at the top of third you are at 90 MPH. (Stock 3.692 diff is 100 MPH)
I'll certainly get back to you on this, but every time I inadvertently hit the rev limiter, it sure doesn't feel gentle. But that could be embarrassment influencing recollection of those moments. And they are always accidental. I'm not proud.
Sonic, you were right. I stand corrected and informed. 3rd gear WOT to the Rev Limiter was surprisingly gentle.
I suppose the best explanation why I expected otherwise had to do with hitting the limiter accidentally in 1st or 2nd gear, and dealing with the sudden shock of power loss, as well as the embarrassment of driving like an idiot. Also, I've never dyno'd, and dyno videos look kind of violent at the end. But you were absolutely correct, the 3rd gear rev limiter was meh. Oh, and it came about at 90 mph (because of my gears). So you were right about that too.
Anyway, I just shared my first log with Eugene. It was a cold start after sitting overnight, with all kinds of driving, and two solid 3rd gear pulls. The app sampled data for 30 minutes and 17 miles, resulting in an 8mb .CSV file. Hope this is what the tuner is looking for.
[edit]
He responded a few hours later, confirmed receipt and content, with a cursory review and a detailed followup tomorrow. That puts me one step closer to getting my first custom tune. Yay!
Eugene called me twice on Sunday, and we spoke for at least 90 minutes. During the first part of the call he took over my dedicated laptop and was reviewing aspects of my datalog with me. The second part of the call he was in his car and topics were more random. Some observations from this call:
He’s extraordinarily proud of his work and the techniques he’s developed for tuning. It doesn’t come across as arrogance, and it’s not a sell-job. In fact, tuning isn’t actually his full time career... he’s been a NASA engineer most of his adult life, working with large-data analysis projects. I have a friend who does the same thing at Sikorsky (helicopters), and I suspect the two of them could talk all day long. Eugene’s side job of tuning cars is something that just evolved organically over the years, and he’s been fitting it into his life best he can. Also, while most remote tuners rely on intuition born from expertise and experience reviewing logs, he’s developed a number of proprietary software programs to help him in his analysis. It’s a much broader, and more holistic approach.
He’s very intent on explaining his philosophy towards tuning, and discussing (teaching) as many of the technical details as the client is willing to take on. I’m not sure how realistic that is, because I’m not an engineer, and my expertise on the details of combustion is very mundane. So when he gets deep into the weeds, I run a high risk of getting lost. That’s neither his problem nor my problem, it’s just reality. I don’t want to be embarrassed, and I don’t want him to be put off, so a good recommendation in this relationship is to just be honest and respectful. I think it’s working.
He’s far more focused on engine efficiency than he is Moar Power, with the philosophy that more power is a natural result of efficiency gains. Here’s a fascinating example of one discussion: he was pointing out a graph from my datalog where the metric being measured was sampling within boundaries, and all was right with the world... except when it wasn’t, and there was a momentary spike. The ECU responded by retarding timing one, two, three, four degrees, and then just kind of sat there for a while before coming back to normal. He called it a turtle effect. One solution is to intentionally retard timing 1 degree just before the spike, so that the ECU doesn’t overcorrect and you live with the overcorrection for seconds thereafter. I thought that was fascinating. Kind of like fighting a forest fire by intentionally starting smaller fires.
Based on my experience so far, I’ve established a high sense of confidence. Part of that is a natural eagerness to validate choices made, but I honestly think it’s going well, and I’m happy with the process. I’m expecting to get my first custom tune from him sometime today, and will datalog for a few days after, rinse & repeat.
05-06-2021, 10:19 AM
Pretty sure I'm going to get push back from that idea.
