Help. Devon's cars having issues!! Won't start or stalls out sometimes.
07-07-2005, 09:48 AM
#16
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Originally Posted by pdjafari
The washers that came with my setup were white double sided donuts (3M) and were made of like a foamy/spongy material. They were def. NOT rubber, and I am not sure what the newer spacers or those with the recent purchases have been receiving. Just to be safe I may remove mine and take some pics.
07-07-2005, 10:02 AM
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Damn i thought the bolts (If tightened to spec) were supposed to go through those little dounut circles to the bottom of the plenum? Am I mistaken? I guess if yours were melted or falling off.
I do believe my spacer is coming off this weekend until Tony can resolve this.
I do believe my spacer is coming off this weekend until Tony can resolve this.
07-07-2005, 10:04 AM
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The bolt goes through the spacers and that wasn't the problem, the problem was the little sticky tabs used to hold the spacer washers in place, they melted and dissapeared into the engine, I assume.
07-07-2005, 10:12 AM
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Guys,
When I spoke to Tony and his wife on the phone the sticky washers were supposed to go in between the silver (aluminum) posts on your stock plenum and the short metallic cylinders that were provided with the spacer. The sticky plastic thin white washers are to make your stock plenum posts adhere to the short metallic cylinders which were provided to fill in the gap that is created by adding your spacer (1/4, 3/8 or 1/2 inch.) Internally from the bottom up you should have your 6 lower IM , then you should have the short metallic cylindrical studs, THEN the sticky plastic washers and finally your stock plenum with its stock posts. This is also the same process I used to Greg's (gmoney4) car.
When I spoke to Tony and his wife on the phone the sticky washers were supposed to go in between the silver (aluminum) posts on your stock plenum and the short metallic cylinders that were provided with the spacer. The sticky plastic thin white washers are to make your stock plenum posts adhere to the short metallic cylinders which were provided to fill in the gap that is created by adding your spacer (1/4, 3/8 or 1/2 inch.) Internally from the bottom up you should have your 6 lower IM , then you should have the short metallic cylindrical studs, THEN the sticky plastic washers and finally your stock plenum with its stock posts. This is also the same process I used to Greg's (gmoney4) car.
07-07-2005, 10:23 AM
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That's what I did. It gets to hot in there for the sticky tabs. They melted and 2 were gone the other 4 were expanded and missing portions. When I get home today I will take pics of the sticky tabs to show you. I think he should do away with the sticky tabs. I haven't emaile them yet as I am cooling off so I don't come across like an *******.
07-07-2005, 10:23 AM
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RIght, So the silver cylinders were held with the sticky washers to the top of the plenum when you are putting the top plenum back on. Were you told (by TOny) that those sticky washers would not melt? B/c it looks like they do melt away 
07-07-2005, 10:35 AM
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You know just thinking about this, if the little sticky pads DO melt, won't that leave a gap and in turn make the center of the plenum loose. I would think that anyone who has had their spacer on for a lengthy amount of time might want to check the torque on those center bolts. They will problably come loose.
07-07-2005, 10:45 AM
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Originally Posted by wnt1bd
For some reason I can not post on this site, I can reply , but can not start a thread. I would like to put out a POSSIBLE problem. I do not like to point fingers at products, but if this is a true problem then this can be very serious. I am just glad I checked it out before I took it to the dealer. It is very possible that if these are melting that they WILL fall into the runners then in turn either stick to the valves or right into the cylinder. Granted that it is only rubber, that still can foul up injectors and even make your valves stick, whick is what I think was happening to me.
07-07-2005, 11:01 AM
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Nah the fact that the stickies could/would melt was never even brought up and Im not exactly sure why the heck i didnt think about it at the time. I know from the 2nd week of owning the car and installing my Z tube PC that the plenum gets extremely hot...and Im a bit surprised at myself for not even having thought about the stickies melting....
07-08-2005, 01:15 AM
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Hi Devon,
Yes, the stickies are not supposed to melt. The white ones are made of polyurethane and have a maximum service temperature of 350 deg F. The redbrown stickes are made of silicone rubber and have a maximum service temperature of 550 deg F.
The maximum plenum temperature is about 190 deg F. Neither should melt. But if they somehow did, it is also possible that it could create a air leak. A significant air leak could also cause the symptoms you describe.
I have seen that it is possible to crush/extrude the gaskets if the bolts are tightened down too much. This is one of the reasons I recommend using a torqe wrench. It can look like its melted, but its really crush extruded. The results will be about the same though. A destroyed post gasket.
What color sticky gaskets did you have? White (polyurethane) or the redbrown (silicone)?
Yes, the stickies are not supposed to melt. The white ones are made of polyurethane and have a maximum service temperature of 350 deg F. The redbrown stickes are made of silicone rubber and have a maximum service temperature of 550 deg F.
The maximum plenum temperature is about 190 deg F. Neither should melt. But if they somehow did, it is also possible that it could create a air leak. A significant air leak could also cause the symptoms you describe.
I have seen that it is possible to crush/extrude the gaskets if the bolts are tightened down too much. This is one of the reasons I recommend using a torqe wrench. It can look like its melted, but its really crush extruded. The results will be about the same though. A destroyed post gasket.
What color sticky gaskets did you have? White (polyurethane) or the redbrown (silicone)?
Last edited by Hydrazine; 07-08-2005 at 01:33 AM.
07-08-2005, 01:48 AM
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...And BTW,
With the new revision of plenum spacers comming out, the sticky gaskets will no longer be required because of the new design.
The new gasketless thermal isolating internal spacers can be used with your existing plenum spacers. For anybody who is concerned about their sticky gaskets, these are available to any plenum spacer owner at no charge. Just give me a PM and I'll send them to you.
The new Iso Thermal kit is much more than just the plenum internal thermal isolating spacers, but is quite a bit more. It will be available as an upgrade to existing kits and will also be made as part of all future plenum spacer kits. Details of the new design will be available soon.
Tony
With the new revision of plenum spacers comming out, the sticky gaskets will no longer be required because of the new design.
The new gasketless thermal isolating internal spacers can be used with your existing plenum spacers. For anybody who is concerned about their sticky gaskets, these are available to any plenum spacer owner at no charge. Just give me a PM and I'll send them to you.
The new Iso Thermal kit is much more than just the plenum internal thermal isolating spacers, but is quite a bit more. It will be available as an upgrade to existing kits and will also be made as part of all future plenum spacer kits. Details of the new design will be available soon.
Tony
07-08-2005, 10:18 AM
#28
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Originally Posted by Hydrazine
It can look like its melted, but its really crush extruded. The results will be about the same though. A destroyed post gasket.
What color sticky gaskets did you have? White (polyurethane) or the redbrown (silicone)?
What color sticky gaskets did you have? White (polyurethane) or the redbrown (silicone)?
07-08-2005, 11:27 AM
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That happened to my friend in his mustang, same situation. Won't start then it was fine but it kept doing it. It ended up being a problem with he fuel pump. At first the shop told him it was vapor lock but he got a new stock pump and it fixed the problem.
07-08-2005, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by wanalaugh74
If destroyed, is there a chance it can fall into the engine?
A while back I did a test on my own plenum to see the effects of over tightening the bolts 20ft-lbs (making sure not to brake the bolts or plenum threads though) driving around for a couple weeks and then opening it up. This is where I found the crushed gaskets. They were squished around the plenum post when I opened up. it was essentially pulverized rubber held together by its sticky adhesive. Its not something you want to happen but I don't think it would do anything serious.
Given the number of over tightening of bolts reported, it started me to thinking "What could be done to eliminate this as a problem even if over tightening occurs?" Over tightening will probably occur for as long as bolts are turned... this is where the new post spacer design evolved. And it actually incorporates several improvements into one design.
1) It doesn't need a gasket.
2) It "cant" come lose from the post even if the bolt is entirely removed! Its cupped design keeps it locked in. The only way for it to move is if you completely unbolt the entire plenum and lift it off.
3) Its thermally non-conductive so the plenum runs much cooler. (This aspect is more of a performance enhancement feature.)
4) Its self retaining design allows you to simply push the spacer onto the bolt during assembly and it stays in place like a push nut. No cleaning of the plenum posts necessary. No sticky gaskets.
The whole system is easier to install and remove. And its indefinitely reusable.
Last edited by Hydrazine; 07-08-2005 at 12:52 PM.