testdrove 2007 335i sedan
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testdrove 2007 335i sedan
@tischer BMW,
ohhhhhhh lord that thing picks up fast, went there in friends E46 M3 convertible, it feels faster than the M3, probably due to the massive torque. its quite a bit more soft sprong than the M3 with more bodyroll but also more comfortable ride. The twin turbos have No lag at all compared to driving stock evo or wrx, it literally feels like a NA car... the turbos are also very quite, you dont hear the whine. too bad after some basic premium options like stereo, nav, moonroof and metallic paint and you are looking at 50k out the door.
ohhhhhhh lord that thing picks up fast, went there in friends E46 M3 convertible, it feels faster than the M3, probably due to the massive torque. its quite a bit more soft sprong than the M3 with more bodyroll but also more comfortable ride. The twin turbos have No lag at all compared to driving stock evo or wrx, it literally feels like a NA car... the turbos are also very quite, you dont hear the whine. too bad after some basic premium options like stereo, nav, moonroof and metallic paint and you are looking at 50k out the door.
Originally Posted by terryw
@tischer BMW,
ohhhhhhh lord that thing picks up fast, went there in friends E46 M3 convertible, it feels faster than the M3, probably due to the massive torque. its quite a bit more soft sprong than the M3 with more bodyroll but also more comfortable ride. The twin turbos have No lag at all compared to driving stock evo or wrx, it literally feels like a NA car... the turbos are also very quite, you dont hear the whine. too bad after some basic premium options like stereo, nav, moonroof and metallic paint and you are looking at 50k out the door.
ohhhhhhh lord that thing picks up fast, went there in friends E46 M3 convertible, it feels faster than the M3, probably due to the massive torque. its quite a bit more soft sprong than the M3 with more bodyroll but also more comfortable ride. The twin turbos have No lag at all compared to driving stock evo or wrx, it literally feels like a NA car... the turbos are also very quite, you dont hear the whine. too bad after some basic premium options like stereo, nav, moonroof and metallic paint and you are looking at 50k out the door.
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Originally Posted by terryw
@tischer BMW,
ohhhhhhh lord that thing picks up fast, went there in friends E46 M3 convertible, it feels faster than the M3, probably due to the massive torque. its quite a bit more soft sprong than the M3 with more bodyroll but also more comfortable ride. The twin turbos have No lag at all compared to driving stock evo or wrx, it literally feels like a NA car... the turbos are also very quite, you dont hear the whine. too bad after some basic premium options like stereo, nav, moonroof and metallic paint and you are looking at 50k out the door.
ohhhhhhh lord that thing picks up fast, went there in friends E46 M3 convertible, it feels faster than the M3, probably due to the massive torque. its quite a bit more soft sprong than the M3 with more bodyroll but also more comfortable ride. The twin turbos have No lag at all compared to driving stock evo or wrx, it literally feels like a NA car... the turbos are also very quite, you dont hear the whine. too bad after some basic premium options like stereo, nav, moonroof and metallic paint and you are looking at 50k out the door.
Most stock turbo cars are some what small so people dont have to wait forever for it to kick in. That's why they dont slap a big *** turbo in most stock car. Stock evo and wrx gets full boost at low 3k rpms, that's not bad at all.
Last edited by Mase4g63; Sep 14, 2006 at 12:55 PM.
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yeah, its out.
In an Evo, you can feel the turbo kick at 3k. I actually like that feeling, its like suddenly you get thrown back on your seat. in the 335i the power delivery feels very linear and preditable right from the start If i didnt know before hand that it has twin turbos, I would have thought its a NA engine.
Im just taking a guess here, but i suspect the turbos are not symetrical, theres probably a small one that spools up at very low RPMs and transitions smoothly to the bigger one as rpm climb? eitherway however they managed to do it, its amazing they are able to make a twin turbo setup with such smooth power delivery
In an Evo, you can feel the turbo kick at 3k. I actually like that feeling, its like suddenly you get thrown back on your seat. in the 335i the power delivery feels very linear and preditable right from the start If i didnt know before hand that it has twin turbos, I would have thought its a NA engine.
Im just taking a guess here, but i suspect the turbos are not symetrical, theres probably a small one that spools up at very low RPMs and transitions smoothly to the bigger one as rpm climb? eitherway however they managed to do it, its amazing they are able to make a twin turbo setup with such smooth power delivery
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my best friends 2001 325CI with only 800 miles on it overheated and he had bought it brand new as well. took it into the dealer and they took care of the problem and it never occured again. but i must say if my G ever overheated w/ 800 miles on it id DEMAND a new car!!
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2007 BMW 335i Dynamometer Revisited: We Test Another One!
Get Discount Pricing Find a Local Car Dealer
By Jason Cammisa
2007 BMW 335i Coupe Front Corner
A few weeks ago, we got a surprise visit from the new BMW 335i coupe, one of the hottest cars of the year. We’d been quivering in anticipation for the 335i not because it’s a 3-series--although that pedigree doesn’t hurt--but because the mind-meltingly fast two-door offers BMW’s first turbocharged gasoline engine ever to be sold in the States.
With this in mind, we just had to take the new coupe to the dyno and see exactly how much power its twin-turbo powerplant puts to the ground. The results? 275 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels--more than we expected. Rated by the Bimmer boys at 300 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque, it was pretty clear to us that the Bavarian masterpiece was a little underrated from the factory.
In the weeks since we first published the results of that test, we’ve heard some criticism of our conclusion that the 335i makes "closer to 350 hp" than the reported 300. We arrived at that verdict after some quick calculations, but since a chassis dyno only reports how many horses make it to the wheels, it’s admittedly a hard number to verify. We did four runs with that particular car, and the actual peaks were 276, 280, 280, and 283 horsepower. We published the lowest number to be sure there was no claim that we were exaggerating the engine’s output.
But what if this was a one-time fluke? What if that first 335i was a particularly strong example? Or--gasp--a ringer! The answer to that question appeared in the form of another 335i (this time painted space gray metallic) that BMW dropped off last week. Again, without hesitation, we grabbed the keys and headed for the dyno shop.
2007 BMW 335i Coupe Rear Corner
On the way, we were pleased to find intact the awesome midrange torque and incredible straight-six soundtrack. Reacquainting ourselves with the gauges, we noticed that, as with the original tester, the oil temperature stabilized at 240 degrees Fahrenheit while cruising in sixth gear at 80 mph. Lesser engines would melt at those temperatures!
Temperature? Wait! A quick look at the outside temperature display showed that it was only 78 degrees Fahrenheit outside. The last time we put a 335i on the rollers, it was 92. Everybody knows that engines make more power when they get cooler air--and that turbocharged engines are particularly susceptible to heat soak. We stopped worrying and started getting excited. This one might do even better.
We strapped the 335i down, started it up, and did three runs back to back to back. The results were very consistent, showing peaks of 285 hp, then 282 hp, and, finally, 287 hp. This 335i was even stronger at the top end than the last one, but not as strong in the midrange. Peak torque was stable through all three runs at about 285 lb-ft.
After the final run, we decided to grab audio of the 335i running from first gear through fourth. We expected to have the hairs on the back of our neck stand up at the sound of the 3.0-liter engine at full throat, but what we didn’t expect, of course, was a peak hp number nudging the 300-hp mark. That’s right--shortly after the shift into fourth, this second 335i peaked briefly at 299.93 hp.
Looking closely at the chart, there’s a likely explanation for that outrageous number. No, it wasn’t additional torque from a rough shift--the peak occurred too long after the gear change. Like most turbocharged cars, the computer allows a momentary spike of boost before stabilizing it at a prescribed level. We lucked out, as that spike happened right at the engine’s inherent power peak, so we got a little nudge in the final number. Whether the dyno numbers ultimately translate into 300 hp, 350 hp, or 327.543-to-the-fifth-power-hp, the results speak for themselves: this is one very powerful engine.
Be sure to click below to see--and hear--the 335i's through the gears dyno run!
Get Discount Pricing Find a Local Car Dealer
By Jason Cammisa
2007 BMW 335i Coupe Front Corner
A few weeks ago, we got a surprise visit from the new BMW 335i coupe, one of the hottest cars of the year. We’d been quivering in anticipation for the 335i not because it’s a 3-series--although that pedigree doesn’t hurt--but because the mind-meltingly fast two-door offers BMW’s first turbocharged gasoline engine ever to be sold in the States.
With this in mind, we just had to take the new coupe to the dyno and see exactly how much power its twin-turbo powerplant puts to the ground. The results? 275 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque at the rear wheels--more than we expected. Rated by the Bimmer boys at 300 hp and 300 lb-ft of torque, it was pretty clear to us that the Bavarian masterpiece was a little underrated from the factory.
In the weeks since we first published the results of that test, we’ve heard some criticism of our conclusion that the 335i makes "closer to 350 hp" than the reported 300. We arrived at that verdict after some quick calculations, but since a chassis dyno only reports how many horses make it to the wheels, it’s admittedly a hard number to verify. We did four runs with that particular car, and the actual peaks were 276, 280, 280, and 283 horsepower. We published the lowest number to be sure there was no claim that we were exaggerating the engine’s output.
But what if this was a one-time fluke? What if that first 335i was a particularly strong example? Or--gasp--a ringer! The answer to that question appeared in the form of another 335i (this time painted space gray metallic) that BMW dropped off last week. Again, without hesitation, we grabbed the keys and headed for the dyno shop.
2007 BMW 335i Coupe Rear Corner
On the way, we were pleased to find intact the awesome midrange torque and incredible straight-six soundtrack. Reacquainting ourselves with the gauges, we noticed that, as with the original tester, the oil temperature stabilized at 240 degrees Fahrenheit while cruising in sixth gear at 80 mph. Lesser engines would melt at those temperatures!
Temperature? Wait! A quick look at the outside temperature display showed that it was only 78 degrees Fahrenheit outside. The last time we put a 335i on the rollers, it was 92. Everybody knows that engines make more power when they get cooler air--and that turbocharged engines are particularly susceptible to heat soak. We stopped worrying and started getting excited. This one might do even better.
We strapped the 335i down, started it up, and did three runs back to back to back. The results were very consistent, showing peaks of 285 hp, then 282 hp, and, finally, 287 hp. This 335i was even stronger at the top end than the last one, but not as strong in the midrange. Peak torque was stable through all three runs at about 285 lb-ft.
After the final run, we decided to grab audio of the 335i running from first gear through fourth. We expected to have the hairs on the back of our neck stand up at the sound of the 3.0-liter engine at full throat, but what we didn’t expect, of course, was a peak hp number nudging the 300-hp mark. That’s right--shortly after the shift into fourth, this second 335i peaked briefly at 299.93 hp.
Looking closely at the chart, there’s a likely explanation for that outrageous number. No, it wasn’t additional torque from a rough shift--the peak occurred too long after the gear change. Like most turbocharged cars, the computer allows a momentary spike of boost before stabilizing it at a prescribed level. We lucked out, as that spike happened right at the engine’s inherent power peak, so we got a little nudge in the final number. Whether the dyno numbers ultimately translate into 300 hp, 350 hp, or 327.543-to-the-fifth-power-hp, the results speak for themselves: this is one very powerful engine.
Be sure to click below to see--and hear--the 335i's through the gears dyno run!
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saw this in another forum....
"Dyno'd our new 335i today. The dyno actually reads a bit low for a dynojet. Other dynojets in the area usually read 8-12whp higher. Regardless, the results were better than expected. Yes, the car is grossly under-rated from the factory.
All results were taken in 4th gear, btw. A 3rd gear pull made a few more ponies but the run was very short.
Best Regards,
Shiv
Vishnu Performance Systems"
Later on he also added the following in another statement.
"The stock turbos do seem capable of holding more boost at redline. In stock form, boost peaks at 9ps but falls down to 5psi up top and then again to 0psi at redline. This is one of the things I'm playing around with right now.
For more info on how the boost controls stem works, here's a post i made the other day...
I've been playing around with our new 335i and found a few interesting bits. One thing I noticed, after much datalogging, probing and head-scratching is its boost control system. It's pretty unique. I haven't seen anything like this employed before in any turbo application, twin turbo or otherwise.
Unlike other turbo systems (evo included) which have a positive mechanical wastegate pressure (that keeps the wastegate normally shut); the wastegates on the turbo are designed to remain fully extended in its natural state. This means if you disconnected all forms of boost control, the 335i runs 0psi of boost. On the other hand, if you do this to an EVO, it will run 11psi of boost. To get more boost in the EVO, the factory boost control solenoid bleeds off the wastegate pressure so the wastegate stays more shut. If the wastegate signal hose, for some reason, were to pop off or rupture, the wastegate would get no boost signal, and you'd get an engine-grenading overboost condition.
With the BMW, to get more boost, it regulates a *VACUUM* signal to pull *CLOSE* the naturally open wastegate. During normal off-boost driving, the wastegate is fed 10" of vacuum which keeps the wastegate partially open. During WOT, but before full boost is reached, the wastegate is fed 20" of vacuum, which completely closes the wastegates for maximum boost response. Once full boost is reached, the wastegate sees 3-5" of vacuum used to regulate the wastegate opening for sustaining the desired boost. Once fuel cut is reached, the clever folks at BMW decided that boost needs to go to 0psi so as to not result in a big, uncivilized "bang bang bang" against the rev limiter. To do this, it cuts all vacuum to the wastegates and they go fully open (no boost!).
The upside to this approach, as i see it at least, is as follows:
1) During start-up, the wastegates are open and the turbos are effectively bypassed. This means that much of the hot exhaust coming out of the engine doesn't go through the turbine wheel and cool off. Instead, it goes right out the wastegate and right into the catalyst. This gets them up to temp quicker and makes the boys at the EPA happy. This also means that BMW can push the cats back downstream a little bit instead of cramming them right up against the turbo where backpressure effects are most deleterious.
2) There is no way to induce an overboost since the natural state of the wastegate is fully open. In other turbo cars, something as simple as a wastegate line rupture will cause the car to overboost.
3) Its just cool engineering. Leave it to the Germans.
The downside to this approach, as i see it at least, is as follows:
1) It requires the use of a separate vacuum tank that needs to be smuggled under the hood somewhere. This takes up a little bit of space and costs extra money. Not much but we all know how OEMs like to shave off every extra bit of material and cost.
2) It confused me for a good part of the morning."
then....
"So far, all we did was minor ignition timing, fuel and boost pattern tweaks. Even on our 91oct, I suspect there is still a good deal more power that can be safely extracted once we have finished this project.
Results:
The gains were greatest at higher engine speeds. At 7000rpm, we picked up nearly 70whp with richer-than-stock A/F ratio. Peak WHP increased from 278 to 310whp at 6000rpm. Torque from 288lb-ft to 311lb-ft. I stayed nice and conservative at low to mid engine speeds (where, quite frankly, we should see the biggest gains when all is said and done). This was because I don't yet have control of the AFR targets in this region.
Once we get control of the fuel in this region, we can start to turn up the wick and really get the sick midrange torque. For now, all we really wanted to do is make the car charge to redline instead of fall flat above 6000rpm.
Thus, The stock set-up falls off to 220whp @ Redline 7000 rpm. The tuned set-up still makes 290whp @ redline 7000 rpm"
"Dyno'd our new 335i today. The dyno actually reads a bit low for a dynojet. Other dynojets in the area usually read 8-12whp higher. Regardless, the results were better than expected. Yes, the car is grossly under-rated from the factory.
All results were taken in 4th gear, btw. A 3rd gear pull made a few more ponies but the run was very short.
Best Regards,
Shiv
Vishnu Performance Systems"
Later on he also added the following in another statement.
"The stock turbos do seem capable of holding more boost at redline. In stock form, boost peaks at 9ps but falls down to 5psi up top and then again to 0psi at redline. This is one of the things I'm playing around with right now.
For more info on how the boost controls stem works, here's a post i made the other day...
I've been playing around with our new 335i and found a few interesting bits. One thing I noticed, after much datalogging, probing and head-scratching is its boost control system. It's pretty unique. I haven't seen anything like this employed before in any turbo application, twin turbo or otherwise.
Unlike other turbo systems (evo included) which have a positive mechanical wastegate pressure (that keeps the wastegate normally shut); the wastegates on the turbo are designed to remain fully extended in its natural state. This means if you disconnected all forms of boost control, the 335i runs 0psi of boost. On the other hand, if you do this to an EVO, it will run 11psi of boost. To get more boost in the EVO, the factory boost control solenoid bleeds off the wastegate pressure so the wastegate stays more shut. If the wastegate signal hose, for some reason, were to pop off or rupture, the wastegate would get no boost signal, and you'd get an engine-grenading overboost condition.
With the BMW, to get more boost, it regulates a *VACUUM* signal to pull *CLOSE* the naturally open wastegate. During normal off-boost driving, the wastegate is fed 10" of vacuum which keeps the wastegate partially open. During WOT, but before full boost is reached, the wastegate is fed 20" of vacuum, which completely closes the wastegates for maximum boost response. Once full boost is reached, the wastegate sees 3-5" of vacuum used to regulate the wastegate opening for sustaining the desired boost. Once fuel cut is reached, the clever folks at BMW decided that boost needs to go to 0psi so as to not result in a big, uncivilized "bang bang bang" against the rev limiter. To do this, it cuts all vacuum to the wastegates and they go fully open (no boost!).
The upside to this approach, as i see it at least, is as follows:
1) During start-up, the wastegates are open and the turbos are effectively bypassed. This means that much of the hot exhaust coming out of the engine doesn't go through the turbine wheel and cool off. Instead, it goes right out the wastegate and right into the catalyst. This gets them up to temp quicker and makes the boys at the EPA happy. This also means that BMW can push the cats back downstream a little bit instead of cramming them right up against the turbo where backpressure effects are most deleterious.
2) There is no way to induce an overboost since the natural state of the wastegate is fully open. In other turbo cars, something as simple as a wastegate line rupture will cause the car to overboost.
3) Its just cool engineering. Leave it to the Germans.
The downside to this approach, as i see it at least, is as follows:
1) It requires the use of a separate vacuum tank that needs to be smuggled under the hood somewhere. This takes up a little bit of space and costs extra money. Not much but we all know how OEMs like to shave off every extra bit of material and cost.
2) It confused me for a good part of the morning."
then....
"So far, all we did was minor ignition timing, fuel and boost pattern tweaks. Even on our 91oct, I suspect there is still a good deal more power that can be safely extracted once we have finished this project.
Results:
The gains were greatest at higher engine speeds. At 7000rpm, we picked up nearly 70whp with richer-than-stock A/F ratio. Peak WHP increased from 278 to 310whp at 6000rpm. Torque from 288lb-ft to 311lb-ft. I stayed nice and conservative at low to mid engine speeds (where, quite frankly, we should see the biggest gains when all is said and done). This was because I don't yet have control of the AFR targets in this region.
Once we get control of the fuel in this region, we can start to turn up the wick and really get the sick midrange torque. For now, all we really wanted to do is make the car charge to redline instead of fall flat above 6000rpm.
Thus, The stock set-up falls off to 220whp @ Redline 7000 rpm. The tuned set-up still makes 290whp @ redline 7000 rpm"
oh my god... they are in the 310rwhp territory with very minor mods... give modders more time, and 350rwhp will be regular. on an otherwise stock car... unbelievable... /me wants 335i.
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http://www.dynocomp.com/bmw.php?view=bmw
evo tech already has some chip that makes 375hp for 1295 bucks
evo tech already has some chip that makes 375hp for 1295 bucks
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