Air filters
04-20-2012, 08:15 PM
#16
Two K&N drop in filters will cost you over $120. I did a lot of research on the K&N filters and the only benefit of a K&N is the reusable aspect and maybe a very very small increase in HP (maybe 1 or 2 at most). You pay for this increase in HP because if more air is allowed to pass through a K&N for this very small increase in HP, the air will not be filtered as well. I have 128 HP in my G37, I don't need 130 at the cost of inferior air filtration. Rochester is correct, you get plecebo like gains, not worth the cost.
04-20-2012, 09:33 PM
#17
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Jump back Black Betty, I meant to say 328 HP. My mistake. I still maintain, I don't need a microscopic increase in HP at the expense of inferior air filtration. I am currently bumping heads with a guy on you tube that claims a K&N will increase gas mileage. Absolutely 100% incorrect. No air filter made will increase gas mileage on a modern car. The more air entering an engine--the more gas will be metered for correct combustion. If your air filters are 50% plugged, your HP will suffer, but your gas mileage will not change at all. In the old days of carbureters, a dirty air filter would affect gas mileage, not today. I rest my case.
04-20-2012, 09:57 PM
#18
I was just yanking your chain over the typo, I do it all the time.
Your logic is going to fall mostly on deaf ears here. If people want to buy $120 worth of air filters that they can buy for $12 to $15, who am I to stop them? If they keep the car at least 10 years or more they'll pay for themselves. If not its just another mod that makes people feel peace of mind because they feel they have a higher quality product or that it increases their car's performance. I'll stick to my $7 Wix filters.
Your logic is going to fall mostly on deaf ears here. If people want to buy $120 worth of air filters that they can buy for $12 to $15, who am I to stop them? If they keep the car at least 10 years or more they'll pay for themselves. If not its just another mod that makes people feel peace of mind because they feel they have a higher quality product or that it increases their car's performance. I'll stick to my $7 Wix filters.
04-21-2012, 12:12 AM
#19
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I was just yanking your chain over the typo, I do it all the time.
Your logic is going to fall mostly on deaf ears here. If people want to buy $120 worth of air filters that they can buy for $12 to $15, who am I to stop them? If they keep the car at least 10 years or more they'll pay for themselves. If not its just another mod that makes people feel peace of mind because they feel they have a higher quality product or that it increases their car's performance. I'll stick to my $7 Wix filters.
Your logic is going to fall mostly on deaf ears here. If people want to buy $120 worth of air filters that they can buy for $12 to $15, who am I to stop them? If they keep the car at least 10 years or more they'll pay for themselves. If not its just another mod that makes people feel peace of mind because they feel they have a higher quality product or that it increases their car's performance. I'll stick to my $7 Wix filters.
BB is right. at $7 a piece for WIX filters on Rockauto.com, that's like having lunch at McDonolds....
Please ignore my 2 cents cheaper comment. I thought you were talkinbg about the Fram filters.
04-21-2012, 02:53 PM
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Gotta call you on this statement. This problem occurs for those who over-oil their K&N filters. I've used them for years on my Nissans and Infinitis with MAFs and never suffered any problems. But I've also seen people who oil both sides of the filter (I usually oil only the side of the filter facing outwards) and put too much on. That's asking for trouble.
As for airflow causing "droplets of oil pull out of the foam element", the K&Ns in my SCCA and NASA 350Zs are run at high speed for far longer than any street driven car. Never had a problem with the MAFs getting fouled (despite cleaning and oiling the elements multiple times) over many years.
As for airflow causing "droplets of oil pull out of the foam element", the K&Ns in my SCCA and NASA 350Zs are run at high speed for far longer than any street driven car. Never had a problem with the MAFs getting fouled (despite cleaning and oiling the elements multiple times) over many years.
MAF quality and design probably plays a factor, too. I remember seeing nothing but problems with oiled filters on early 90s Fords.
04-21-2012, 02:57 PM
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I paid closer to $11 for my WIX.I personally refuse to use FRAM products. Their air filters are probably fine, but I avoid the company all together. I'd rather use a toilet paper filter than a FRAM.
04-21-2012, 03:13 PM
#22
Fair enough and I'm glad you've had good experience with them. Definitely appreciate the purpose on a track setting where squeezing out that extra 1 or 2 horsepower makes a difference.
MAF quality and design probably plays a factor, too. I remember seeing nothing but problems with oiled filters on early 90s Fords.
MAF quality and design probably plays a factor, too. I remember seeing nothing but problems with oiled filters on early 90s Fords.
But back on topic, none of us know the filtration efficiency of any of these filters. Without that information any comparison data is useless. So if someone want to spend $37 on an OEM filter they could buy for $6, more power to them. Those same owners feel better paying $120 for a dealership synthetic oil change than DIY for $35 or $40. They are paying for their peace of mind becasue it makes them feel more confident somehow. The K&N marketing machine touts that their filters will last the lifetime of the car which is great. But you'd have to be on your 11th set of throw away filters for you to have any cost benefit, and that's only if you don't have to spend any money at all on their oil used to reoil them or the cleaner they sell to clean them. That's a long way into your ownership before any financial benefit is seen. If you're going to keep the car over 15 years they make sense. Otherwise, no.
To each his own.
Last edited by Black Betty; 04-21-2012 at 04:09 PM. Reason: oops
04-21-2012, 03:45 PM
#23
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Two K&N drop in filters will cost you over $120. I did a lot of research on the K&N filters and the only benefit of a K&N is the reusable aspect and maybe a very very small increase in HP (maybe 1 or 2 at most). You pay for this increase in HP because if more air is allowed to pass through a K&N for this very small increase in HP, the air will not be filtered as well. I have 128 HP in my G37, I don't need 130 at the cost of inferior air filtration. Rochester is correct, you get plecebo like gains, not worth the cost.
Amazon.com: K&N 33-2399 Panel Air Filter: Automotive
K & N filters let dirt through? I don't think so, they were originally designed for off road motorcycle racing in the Southern California desert in the late 60s early 70s, District #38. I have used them on a VW Beetle, VW Sirocco, Olds Diesel, Integra R, MR-2, Acura CL-S, IS300 and my G37 and NEVER had a problem. UOA from Blackstone Labs also says they work fine. DO NOT OVER OIL and you will be fine.
04-21-2012, 03:54 PM
#24
But back on topic, none of us know the filtration efficiency of any of these filters. Without that information any comparison data is useless. So if someone want to spend $37 on an OEM filter they could buy for $6, more power to them. Those same owners feel better paying $120 for a dealership synthetic oil change than DIY for $35 or $40. They are paying for their piece of mind becasue it makes them feel more confident somehow. The K&N marketing machine touts that their filters will last the lifetime of the car which is great. But you'd have to be on your 11th set of throw away filters for you to have any cost benefit, and that's only if you don't have to spend any money at all on their oil used to reoil them or the cleaner they sell to clean them. That's a long way into your ownership before any financial benefit is seen. If you're going to keep the car over 15 years they make sense. Otherwise, no.
To each his own.
To each his own.
04-21-2012, 04:56 PM
#26
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badump bump
04-21-2012, 05:42 PM
#29
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However, when it comes to conversations about lease rates, and that thread the other day from a guy who needed immediate advice on which headers *and* HFC's to buy for the same install...
You don't see a lot of that nonsense on the Org.I digress. Shoot me.
04-21-2012, 06:07 PM
#30
I've been on the org for a long time but seldom ever post. Lately I have been because my 4th gen has come out of hibernation and needs some work that I'm not familiar with. The general attitude in the 4th gen forum is MUCH better than it was years ago where any question could earn an immediate flaming even if it was legit. I've been getting excellent advice on repairing my AC system.
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