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I think most of you are overthinking this and are mixing older info with newer.
The filters on these transmissions are a metal mesh which means they are washable. Because it has less microns in filtering means this will let some smaller particles through. A higher micron count would mean these would get clogged quite easily.
Once you have one in your hands you'd understand what I mean. There should not be any worry about excess or not cleaning it correctly since the holes in the membrane can be seen. Also the back of the filter is exposed and can simply be checked.
A bath in mineral spirits or brake clean will do the job just fine.
This is what a clogged filter looks like
What you see in the last two pictures is water damage. For those that did not know, clutch material can survive extreme heats and temps as well as many oils but turns to dust if it mixes with water. What I was told was the glue used for these clutches is water soluble.
Even my contaminated filter could have been cleaned up and thrown back up there. Usually metal filters are washable.
Now onto fluid change:
Practically no transmission under 15 years old should be treated like "sealed" units like you've been told.
Fluids leak and evaporate which for a proper fix would require you to "top off"
Certain people might have this idea however think about this, many have at one point have to have their transmission taken off and almost every time the fluid is replaced with new.
If "sealed units" were more common we would be seeing more and more of these yet the common issue is shiftlogic and or improper fluid levels
Lastly contamination, one of the biggest of issues/failures of them due to the trans oil cooler/warmer. You see this issue a lot less from vehicles that are 2008+ due to the change to an all aluminum radiator. In the past Nissan/Infiniti used fiber infused plastic tanks that would break and take a trans line with it. As expected any sign of contamination should be dealt with immediately or it will fail like in the last two pictures.
The first step in transmission diag should be fluid level which can be a vitch in these cars. I remember reading the advice from many to install the 5AT dipstick on the 7AT, I remember being opposed to it only to have found one and installed it and boy was my opinion wrong.
The days of pumping fluid uncomfortably on the floor are over. Do yourself this favor, it will entice you to do more fluid changes since is much easier now.
The first step in transmission diag should be fluid level which can be a vitch in these cars. I remember reading the advice from many to install the 5AT dipstick on the 7AT, I remember being opposed to it only to have found one and installed it and boy was my opinion wrong.
There's a reason that modern transmissions don't have dipsticks. They create an opening through which fluid evaporates and dirt and debris get in. Further, taking out the dipstick and wiping it down also removes some of the fluid, makes it easy to overfill the transmission, to put the wrong fluid in, etc...
Again, if the discussion was just about potentially wasting some money on a transmission drain and fill, it'd be one thing and wouldn't be a big deal. In other words, if there were no downsides (other than financial, and those are tiny in the context of the cost of a transmission) to servicing your AT, this wouldn't be a problem. The big issue, however, is that all these well meaning transmission service recommendations run a very real risk of actually damaging your transmission. This is an especially big issue for high mileage vehicles where the transmission fluid has not been replaced, which is the vast majority of G37's out there. For those, just about every reputable transmission shop is going to tell you not to touch the transmission.
Once again, there have been tens of thousands of G37's sold and many of them have 200K+ miles. Most of them have not had their transmission fluid replaced. Yet, their AT's have been rock solid and there are no reports of widespread failures.
There's a reason that modern transmissions don't have dipsticks. They create an opening through which fluid evaporates and dirt and debris get in. Further, taking out the dipstick and wiping it down also removes some of the fluid, makes it easy to overfill the transmission, to put the wrong fluid in, etc...
Once again, there have been tens of thousands of G37's sold and many of them have 200K+ miles. Most of them have not had their transmission fluid replaced. Yet, their AT's have been rock solid and there are no reports of widespread failures.
Those are very interesting observations however not to be confused just because it could fit. Part of the reason to not install a dipstick is to prevent the customer to interfere with it.
Every time you pull the dipstick it could equal to 1-2 drops of oil. at that rate it would take about 600-1000 times of reading and wiping the dipstick for you to drop 1 quart. Let's just agree this is not even close to becoming a reason.
Every single piece of machinery that uses oil for cooling purposes will have a Vent hole. The automatic trans has a vent hole as well. Though this hole is small we usually never see smoke or evaporation so an even bigger hole would not affect anything.
The OEM way to insert oil in the transmission is even easier to over fill if the car or the pan is not on a level surface.
Dirt and Debris is plausible but not in actual dirt or debris but in the wrong fluid.
Once again though for every tens of thousand there are a couple of thousand and significantly driven cars that have. For the sake of this thread these same folks that have never had an trans oil change probably service their car at the dealer and ect.
The reality is that for most Japanese engineered engines, 200k is just the break in period. If you think about it what's broken these cars faster is fluid maintenance. Those at 200k WILL whether you accept it or not will end in failure faster than a car that these levels can be monitored easier on.
One big reality is that this dipstick change forces a change of mind in procedure for fills. Most folks wont have the tools required for the fill up or will leave it alone or risk driving on low fluid once they learn about the process etc. Once fluid level drops these same owners will ride it until slip happens and by then it's too late, many will complain about how expensive the Matic fluid is and will try to use a universal replacement and fail.
Simple scenario is a moist transmission cooler hose, lets say you're tolerating it and have been for a while, for a mechanic to fill it will be at least 1 hr of shop time(minimum most shops will charge for this) + fluid cost. Thats an easy $70-$120 depending on the shop. This forces the customer to bring it to the shop and possibly fix it faster since they can't just be "topping it off"
Your average mechanic will probably look for a dipstick before realizing that he has to add fluid another way. That's like doing a full TILE bathroom on a 1960s house with shoddy piping if there is ever a leak/mold growth you'd probably notice it once it has entered your room and by then it's too late
The dipstick was ditched to stop folks from messing with it but only for this reason alone nothing else. The latter would also affect the engine as well and it never has so yeah.
Every time you pull the dipstick it could equal to 1-2 drops of oil.
The reason that just about modern transmission doesn't have a dipstick is the combination of the above. I agree that the amount of oil that you'd lose by looking at the dipstick is small, but it'd be in combination with the loss due to having a much larger opening, an access point for dirt and debris to get in, for people to overfill it, put incorrect oil in, etc...
Every single piece of machinery that uses oil for cooling purposes will have a Vent hole. The automatic trans has a vent hole as well. Though this hole is small we usually never see smoke or evaporation so an even bigger hole would not affect anything.
The fact that your house isn't perfectly sealed and has some areas of small air infiltration does not mean that opening a window or a door wide open in July "would not affect anything." It's the same with a dipstick, as you are suddenly creating an additional fairly large opening
The OEM way to insert oil in the transmission is even easier to over fill if the car or the pan is not on a level surface.
The OEM way is to not touch the precisely factory filled and factory sealed transmission.
Dirt and Debris is plausible but not in actual dirt or debris but in the wrong fluid.
It's the actual dirt and debris as well. Your aftermarket dipstick does not form a perfect seal, and the area under the hood is not exactly sterile. Further, when people used to take out a dipstick, touched it with their dirty hands and then wiped it off with a dirty rag, before reinserting it they were putting dirt into the fluid.
Those at 200k WILL whether you accept it or not will end in failure faster than a car that these levels can be monitored easier on.
The issue is that the price that you pay for this highly imprecise monitoring through the dipstick is the creation of an additional large opening through which dirt and debris can get in, etc... Hence, the reason that it is super unusual for people to do this.
One big reality is that this dipstick change forces a change of mind in procedure for fills. Most folks wont have the tools required for the fill up or will leave it alone or risk driving on low fluid once they learn about the process etc. Once fluid level drops these same owners will ride it until slip happens and by then it's too late, many will complain about how expensive the Matic fluid is and will try to use a universal replacement and fail.
Right, except that this is a solution (with quite a few downsides and risks) in search of a problem. Fortunately, the AT in the G37 is rock solid, and all these "solutions" actually threaten to jeopardize that.
The dipstick was ditched to stop folks from messing with it but only for this reason alone nothing else. The latter would also affect the engine as well and it never has so yeah.
If there was a way to manufacture engine oil and filter that extensive testing showed maintained their lubricating and, for the filter, filtering properties for the life of the vehicle, the manufacturers would've used the exact same approach for it.
That's a nice way to straw-pick my commentary. It sounds like your approach/experience comes from learning/engineering one with less physical experience especially in the maintenance of the 7at. I applaud the folks who have not had to service theirs but for the majority of owners and huge percentage of members here we have bought cars that have not had the proper maintenance applied to them. Most members here come here to avoid the dealer and many are removing the dealer as an option for fixes since the older the car gets the more the dealer wants to squeeze out of a service. The transmission will need to be serviced regardless of what the dealer tells you, we see this with proprietary tech all the time. The fixes still need to happen and many are trying to diagnose where or what is the catalyst that deteriorates the trans faster than others.
Originally Posted by BULL
Every time you pull the dipstick it could equal to 1-2 drops of oil. The reason that just about modern transmission doesn't have a dipstick is the combination of the above. I agree that the amount of oil that you'd lose by looking at the dipstick is small, but it'd be in combination with the loss due to having a much larger opening, an access point for dirt and debris to get in, for people to overfill it, put incorrect oil in, etc... I gave you a factual mathematical answer and you joined other answers to back up the drops to be part of this equation.
Originally Posted by BULL Every single piece of machinery that uses oil for cooling purposes will have a Vent hole. The automatic trans has a vent hole as well. Though this hole is small we usually never see smoke or evaporation so an even bigger hole would not affect anything.
The fact that your house isn't perfectly sealed and has some areas of small air infiltration does not mean that opening a window or a door wide open in July "would not affect anything." It's the same with a dipstick, as you are suddenly creating an additional fairly large opening A house does is not a good comparison. Maybe the Septic tank or the water heater would have been a better comparison
Originally Posted by BULL
The OEM way to insert oil in the transmission is even easier to over fill if the car or the pan is not on a level surface.
The OEM way is to not touch the precisely factory filled and factory sealed transmission. Regardless of WHO does it, it doesnt change the process, the lift might not be level, even the ground which is why I use a level in the pan..
Originally Posted by BULL
Dirt and Debris is plausible but not in actual dirt or debris but in the wrong fluid. It's the actual dirt and debris as well. Your aftermarket dipstick does not form a perfect seal, and the area under the hood is not exactly sterile. Further, when people used to take out a dipstick, touched it with their dirty hands and then wiped it off with a dirty rag, before reinserting it they were putting dirt into the fluid. This is what I mean, the dipstick in question comes of an OEM nissan transmission that shares the same casing and pan height as the 7AT. It even has a block off plate to cover this hole. So either the case was shared with other vehicles that had a dipstick or that another vehicle equipped with this trans actually brings it. The dip stick in question comes on the 07-09 G35 and it bolts and works in the trans. Checking the level at the pan is the same as the dipstick shows.
Originally Posted by BULL
The dipstick was ditched to stop folks from messing with it but only for this reason alone nothing else. The latter would also affect the engine as well and it never has so yeah. If there was a way to manufacture engine oil and filter that extensive testing showed maintained their lubricating and, for the filter, filtering properties for the life of the vehicle, the manufacturers would've used the exact same approach for it. Manufacture's mentality is to now prevent the average folk from messing with it. If they could prevent someone other than the dealer they would which has actually has been trying gain as much traction as possible.
Right to repair fight's these.
The transmission will need to be serviced regardless of what the dealer tells you
It doesn't matter what the dealer tells you. What matters is what the Infiniti engineers tell you, as they're the ones with the data. So far, based on the tens of thousands of G37 out there, many with high miles, they've been correct.
The manufacturer doesn't always have the consumer in mind.
Though founded by Nissan, Jatco the manufacturer of the transmission has a few of serviceable trans as well as "sealed" ones as well.
One plain example is CVTs made by Jatco and their high failure rate. Most of these owners are starting to find out many of their issues are fluid related as well. Higher friction requirements of the cvt and any type of fluid loss will lead to failure. All fine until the warranty runs out.
Then what? Most of the info and dealers as well as nissan warrants a full replacement, at that rate this means full destruction of these vehicles. If we can't understand how these failures happen and learn to fix them then what is it that we are doing here?
Look at the VVEL system of the VHR. NISSAN puts more effort into stating not to mess with this system than their transmission care. Though usually this system is stouter than transmissions they still give issues. We see now a specific few documenting fixes and adjustments of this system in the case of repair.
Jumping to the JR5 trans 07-09 VQ35HR we see that this dipstick is still there. Looking at documents there are a few that compare this JR5 to the JR7 trans. These articles point out the main differences but in most they compare it to a 7speed JR5 trans. With the same clutch composition there would be nothing special internally that would warrant the delete of this dipstick. Other than what we have agreed on which is folks with outdated transmission knowledge touching these.
I hope you can leave that mentality and try to see it from a repairing perspective. God forbid you develop any trans issues but if you do that manufacturer's guideline will cost you 1/3 -1/2 the price of the car.
My guess is that when I take mine off it will look perfectly fine like the one in the video I posted above.
As for the exclusion of transmission dipsticks, I could see where manufactures would leave these off as inexperienced consumers could cause more harm than good by over/underfilling. My wife's Honda pilot has a trannie dipstick, and there's a little black magic involved in reading it correctly. I figured it out by learning about some of the gotchas noted in the forums, but most consumers would just use the owner's manual - which isn't complete for this specific task.
Last edited by socketz67; Jan 20, 2023 at 08:45 PM.
You need to realize that life of ANY transmission depends solely on the transmission fluid and its quality. Infiniti recommended to replace the transmission fluid every 60000 miles just check your owners manual maintenance schedule. Reasons for this that any fluid, and transmission fluid especially degrade over time and loses most of its properties unable to provide lubrication and cooling for transmission. And, believe me sealed or not your tranny will fail if you not change your transmission fluid according to Infiniti maintenance schedule. Pack of Matic s could cost you around 150 dollars for 12 bottles and charging adapter for filling hole about 20 bucks plus some decent quality fluid pump around 20 dollars. I do my tranny fluid change very simple. When is engine still hot I drain whatever is come from transmission, accurately measure old fluid and, using adapter pump exactly the same amount of fluid into transmission. After a few more days I repeat all the above more two times. I do this every 40000 miles because my G has 199000 miles and I change my engine oil every 5000 miles using Redline Ester oil. Remember there is no such a thing as lifetime transmission fluid,period. By the way I installed Setrab brand transmission cooler in conjunction with original transmission cooler that embedded into radiator because our transmission generates lot of heat and heat is the number one transmission killer. Plus I also installed Setrab engine oil cooler and replaced original steering system cooler with more advanced one.
Infiniti recommended to replace the transmission fluid every 60000 miles just check your owners manual maintenance schedule.
Yes, and in the same G37 maintenance schedule, Infiniti tells the G37 owners whose cars have automatic transmissions NOT to replace the transmission fluid.
Yes, and in the same G37 maintenance schedule, Infiniti tells the G37 owners whose cars have automatic transmissions NOT to replace the transmission fluid.
Reason for that they want you to ruin your perfectly fine "sealed" transmission after 100000 miles or so and charge you arm and leg to replace it. Very simple. Like i said there is no fluids that can go over 100000 miles interval.
You need to realize that life of ANY transmission depends solely on the transmission fluid and its quality. Infiniti recommended to replace the transmission fluid every 60000 miles just check your owners manual maintenance schedule. Reasons for this that any fluid, and transmission fluid especially degrade over time and loses most of its properties unable to provide lubrication and cooling for transmission. And, believe me sealed or not your tranny will fail if you not change your transmission fluid according to Infiniti maintenance schedule. Pack of Matic s could cost you around 150 dollars for 12 bottles and charging adapter for filling hole about 20 bucks plus some decent quality fluid pump around 20 dollars. I do my tranny fluid change very simple. When is engine still hot I drain whatever is come from transmission, accurately measure old fluid and, using adapter pump exactly the same amount of fluid into transmission. After a few more days I repeat all the above more two times. I do this every 40000 miles because my G has 199000 miles and I change my engine oil every 5000 miles using Redline Ester oil. Remember there is no such a thing as lifetime transmission fluid,period. By the way I installed Setrab brand transmission cooler in conjunction with original transmission cooler that embedded into radiator because our transmission generates lot of heat and heat is the number one transmission killer. Plus I also installed Setrab engine oil cooler and replaced original steering system cooler with more advanced one.
Originally Posted by abrecos
Reason for that they want you to ruin your perfectly fine "sealed" transmission after 100000 miles or so and charge you arm and leg to replace it. Very simple. Like i said there is no fluids that can go over 100000 miles interval.
Did you happen to read any of the posts upthread, including the link that I have posted?
Opinions are entertaining, but unsubstantiated opinions are worthless, particularly when they are contradicted by substantial data on the other side.
What you see in the last two pictures is water damage. For those that did not know, clutch material can survive extreme heats and temps as well as many oils but turns to dust if it mixes with water. What I was told was the glue used for these clutches is water soluble.
Question. Was this filter removed from a car you worked on personally? How many miles were on the transmission? Also, what direction is the fluid flowing through the filter? Is the fluid being drawn from the pan through the smaller hole pictured?