WHAT?!!! Customers don't lie ?? SERIOUSLY??? Here's two that happen all the time: my trade is mint.. trans obviouly shot ( fill in the blanks) or there's: Oh no it's never been in an accident .. Bad Car Fax.. Or: The other dealer will sell it for this much.. customer has never even been there..The list goes on and on customers for the most part have no complusion to lie.. I've shown customers the invoice I receive from the manufactures and have been told right to my face " oh you guys print those up yourselves) I'm not saying dealers can't pull some shady S**T but most sales people I've known just want to have a simple and stree free transaction.. no drama.. a reasonable profit.. a happy customer.

 

The problem is that customers and salesman seem to have wildly different definitions of "reasonable profit".

Salesman wants 110% of whats realistic, buyer wants to pay 0% of whats realistic. Thats when it becomes a fight, and from my experience the buyer *thinks* they got a deal but the salesman made close to their number based on "behind the scenes" things. Example: my BIL bought that Maxima. They offered the Simonize package 4 or 5 different times, lowering the price each time. Eventually they "made it free" by lowering the price of the car by the price of the Simonize, then add the Simonize back in.

Obviously they must be making more commission on selling the Simonize than on the car itself. But I bet most customers wouldnt have fought it off 4 or 5 times.

 

Again, there's a flipside to your coin. So you may have some customers lie. It happens. But it also happens that dealers lie also. So you pulled out the invoice? So what? Does that tell us the holdbacks or trunk money you get? Does it show all the manufacture to dealer incentives? You want us to THINK we're getting such a good deal. How many times have we heard, "Oh, here's the invoice. As you can see, we're loosing money on this deal" Really? why would you sell a car if you're loosing money? why not just wait for the next idiot to walk in the door who doesn't know any better so you can make your $600 profit (so you claim) or more? If the customers are all raping the dealers, why are they still in business and how are they building them bigger and more extravagant these days? And don't even get me started on Service. They are nothing more than sales person themselves. Explain this to me. I'm sitting in the waiting area of my local infiniti service. One of the advisor is on the phone with a customer. I clearly hear him up sell the customer 4 tires and a complete brake job at some out of this world prices. Lucky for the service advisor, the customer agreed to it. As soon as he hangs up, he high fives his collegue in his office and said, "yes, got another one". Clearly he was unaware I was sitting right behind his office. I guess score for him.

 

I agree on the profit differential... Here's somthing most don't know.. Most new car sales are "Mini-Deals" a Mini is a deal where the profit is so low that the commsion on the sale would be so little that it would be hard to retain good people. Lets say that the commision rate on a new car sale is 20% of net profit.. and the profit is $250.00 so the commsion is a whopping $50.00 frequently on higher end cars the dealership will make a Mini Deal a flat amount ( also know as a Flat) say $150.00 or $200.00 Keep in mind that the industry average for sales people is 10 new cars a month.. throw in a few used cars.. yes the profit is better.. and most people in the car bussines are just getting by..

 

Fair enough. No one said anything in life was easy. I'm sure it's a tough job. But to accuse customers of lying and cheating isn't fair. You as a car sales person is looking out for yourself. We as a consumer is doing the same. Because a transaction doesn't go smoothly in your favor, doesn't make us a-holes.

 

Sniper.. Automobile dealerships are run as THREE Seperate business. Sales, Parts, Service, and sometimes a Body Shop.. Sales for the most part breaks even.. Hold Back is one way that happens.. The major profit center for any dealership is service, followed by parts.. although some dealers have very profitable wholesale parts departments.. Cars get sold at little to no profit for numerous reasons.. big one is floorplan costs, volume rebates.. several others...Here's an intersting tidbit.. If sales sells a car and needs parts or work done on it, guess what, we got charged internally pretty much what a customer pays!

 

How well did saturn's fixed pricing strategy work out...

I've negotiated several car purchases in the last few years. I actually enjoy negotiating. At the end of the negotiation, I, as the buyer have the ultimate say in the deal. If the numbers are unsatisfactory, I walk out. I doubt it matters much whether the vehicle is a chevy or a mercedes. The former is likely to accept a smaller profit because they deal in larger volume than a highend dealer.

Regarding appliances, there are such stores out there that let you negotiate on such items as well. Abt electronics comes to mind. Granted, your best price there might be in the realm of amazon pricing, but you're still saving money over the insane retail markup and getting the satisfaction of dealing with someone face to face if there's an issue. Btw, abt has been around for at least 20+ years that I know of. They are a single local store (not a chain). If I were buying $10K worth of appliances, I would most definitely negotiate, even at a store like BB, sears, or any other big box store. Sales or the manager will make things happen not to let a big sale walk out like that.

Be reasonable in your demands and luck will be in your favor

 

I agree 100% with everything you're saying.. The only issue is when customers have un- reasonable or un- realistic pricing expectations.. come in waste a bunch of a persons time then leave pissed off cause the dealer is trying to rip them off.. I allways wanted to make the sale.. if it was in the black it rolled, hell if it wasn't to much in the red sometinmes it would roll.. but somtimes customers come in with crazy numbers in mind, no basis in reality.. I want this $45,000 A4 for $400.00 a month with no money down.. sorry we can't do that " Oh you're crooks my uncle steve got one for that" they of course forget to mention uncle steve's car is 4 years older and cost $8K less.. But they KNOW they should pay $400.00 a month and when the car they want is $500.00 a month with $2K down, then the dealer is a crook.. even though that $500.00 a month payment is a $400.00 mini deal..and nothing will convince them otherwise..

 

Im never gonna be able to address all the questions but im gonna try and cater to the first handful that commented and then the discussion can go on from there, theres just way to many points, opinions, views, and factors to what goes on in dealerships during the car buying process.
@Rochester: Did i compromsie my ethics during the car sales process and is this why or partly the reason I quit.

To answer this im gonna first tell you a little bit more about me, Im a peoples person always have been for some reason people take a natural liking to me and feel comfortable when I greet them on the lot to buy a new car which is a horrific thought to the majority of people. I used the more laid back subtle approach to selling which worked in my favor alot but also hurt me in some instances. Every person that buys a brand new car gets a new car survey emailed to them with detailed questions about the entire buying process and it goes as far as to inquire about the condition of the dealership the negotiations process the professionality of the sales person EVERYTHING! As one could imagine getting perfect survey scores in a highly volatile car sales enviorment must be near impossible. I was #1 in CSI surveys the entire time at the dealership recieving a perfect score of all 10's from almost every customer out of 120+ with the exception of maybe 2-3 I got 800-900's instead of my routine perfect 1,000's. At Infiniti these surveys are of extreme importance to the dealer his allocation of new cars his ranking in the region and much more. To the salesman it can mean the difference between qualifying for your bonus check getting individual unit spiffs from the factory your standings on the sales floor and more. I always was in the top 3 in units sold but I was always #1 in CSI just because I treated my customers good like I wanted to be treated and I was as honest and transparent as I could possibly be because I cant be any other way. I have a tendancy to go on an on cause theres alot to all this but to try and focus back on your initial question. I did not compromise my ethics to maximise sales I let the big sales come when they did my philosophy always was what goes around come around and that good karma was more important to me than being untrue to myself. Sure the long hours are tough but its the long hours combined with the mental torture of the car sales process the constant cat and mouse game between sales manager and salesman and just all the bull**** that car salesman go through every day with the know it all customers who have a negative attitude of you right off the bat and feel like you and your dealership are so rich that your not entitled to make a fair profit. Its hard to sum it all up or relate unless you have been there. Car sales is a great way to make some fast money but for the long haul its not how I wanted to spend my life. I was lucky enough to be blessed enough to be able to walk away for better opportunities, Car sales can be a great rewarding career, I think it just takes the right person and a abundance of patience and get ready to be mentally abused from all angles and always worry about who your gonna sell a car to next am I gonna hit my bonus this month, this guy skated me this customer is unhappy about this or that its just a endless amount of drama BS blame game and depression. Its not uncommon to work 2 and a half weeks straight at the end of each month, working your days off is encouraged and what you have done is never good enough. Sorry if my posts are sparatic and long but theres just so much to this and im not gonna take the time or effort to proof read or revise but I hope you enjoy some of the info or atleast find it interesting. It just wasnt my thing and I felt like I was gonna either spend my life there and be miserable or I was gonna break out so thats what I did.

 

I agree with what your'e saying. But I just want to emphasize that there is a flipside to everything. Sure, there are customers who have unrealistic expectations. But are there salesperson who are only trying to make as much as possible and will indeed lie about pricing to uninformed customers to achieve that? Sure there is. In fact, they are a fool for not doing so. Therefore, as a consumer, it is smart to be proactive and do the research so they can be informed as much as possible. This makes the transaction as easy as possible where the best deal can be reached for both parties. But simply saying customers are liars and the dealer has no part of the adversary nature of the transaction is just silly. And while you can try to justify your own actions, I doubt you will convince the majority about the car sales industry in general to your favor.

 

Justin, just an FYI: Paragraphs would make your post much more readable :-)

 

Meh, I could care less lol.

 

Sniper I agree there is absolutly two sides to this discussion.. I can tell you I was THRILLED to get a customer that was knowledgable, that understood that we needed to make a profit and could actually understand basic math..

 

From that extremely long post of yours, this is what I got from it and will remember. And from the negative attitude I detect, this is what makes customers the way they are. And I hate to say it, but sometimes, the customers DO know more than the dealers. This is in no way directed to you, but I'm sure many have walked into the dealership well informed and then asked some detailed questions that the dealer have no clue about. I'm not joking when I say I had to tell the dealer how to special order a part on my car and what the code was to use in their system.

 

I am a reasonable person. Like you said, I let the math do the negotiating. You will find me in front of you with my laptop using my spreadsheet to run the numbers.

It's not rocket science when you understand it. But unlike you, some get angry and frustrated when they can't just throw some numbers out at the customer and tell them when they went back to ask their manager, he/she said it wasn't possible.