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Twin Turbo thread Redone: Skyline lineage & Heritage

Old 12-10-2018, 01:31 PM
  #601  
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I am sensing some heavy Need For Speed/Fast and Furious style rivalry vibes here.



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Old 12-10-2018, 01:45 PM
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Rivalry level is definitively "Over 9,000" as stated by Mr. Vegeta lol. Sure one is a 6 cylinder and the Mustang is a stroked V8, which is the definition of Muscle car (a V8 or higher) as far as I understand, however, the Skyline comes in its GT-R format with 2 turbos making up for two less cylinders and for the lost displacement volume provided by V8 and V10 engines.

I recall Carol Shelby saying that force induction was a good way to make up for lower displacement volume engines (ie 4 and 6 cylinder engines). I have seen turbo 4 cylinder engines make up to 1,000 horsepower.


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Old 12-10-2018, 09:18 PM
  #603  
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So this Honda/Acura Integra has broken the speed record for fastest FWD, 4 cylinder vehicle. The engine is turbo charged and is putting out up to 1,000 HP allowing the driver to surpass 200 mph, thereby setting the record.

This is indeed a very impressive build, probably the most impressive I have seen, mostly because he is acquiring so much power from such a small dosplacement volume engine, and the fact that the vehicle is front wheel drive, which usually isnt the case when it comes to motorsport, where the vehicles are either RWD or AWD. This gentleman has made such an impressive Integra build, which will make any muscle car, tuner car fan just watch in complete awe. I did not catch the exact engine used, but it is in-house Honda tech used on an originally Honda make and model. So the Purist inside me is content, although the particular engine used may or may not come factory stock in any Integra model for sale to the public. As long as a Honda powertrain is used for a Honda build. While setting the record, he also maintained the Integra's identity as a factory 4 cylinder heritage vehicle. Very nice. You can say he pretty much kept the integrity of that Integra...Ba-Dum-Tss. I had to hit that pun.




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Old 12-10-2018, 09:29 PM
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Myle's 4 cylinder turbo, 1000 HP Honda Integra build deserves the Twin Turbo Thread Excellence Award for overall excellence in constructing a goal oriented build that actually achieved the driver's intended goal all the while maintaining the vehicle's heritage using its traditional 4 cylinder powertrain philosophy and powertrain tech from the vehicle's own original manufacturer; not to mention he kept the vehicle in its original FWD layout. He kept the heritage of the vehicle intact, and broke the record.




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Old 12-12-2018, 01:49 AM
  #605  
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Myle's Honda/Acura Integra takes on a twin turbo Audi R8

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Old 12-21-2018, 12:59 PM
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The legendary V35 G35 Skyline infiniti, the true and actual direct successor of the R34 Skyline generation, even if no factory Skyline GT-R models were released for this generation. Although Skyline GT models were released just as they were for the R34 generation as well. The rest is aftermarket custom spec history.


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Old 01-05-2019, 04:05 AM
  #607  
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Saw a Honda factory produced Civic Type R in person. The color was absolutely beautiful. Like a pale sky blue, with tint of green at an angle.




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Old 01-10-2019, 12:45 AM
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Another manufacturer contrived GT-R model, the CLK GT-R Mercedes AMG. Powered by a V12 engine.

At first glance the CLK GTR looks to have a wide stance, low center of gravity, and a rear wing for aero purposes.


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Old 01-10-2019, 05:04 PM
  #609  
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Mercedes AMG: CLK GT-R. The asking price for this vehicle is between 1.5 million to 2.7 million dollars, probably the most expensive retail price of all the vehicles discussed in this thread.

But this is a GT-R by name, and thus it is Mercedes' efforts at building a proper and dedicated road going racing vehicle. There are 25 CLK GT-R's in market and they were built solely as homogulation cars so that Mercedes could compete in racing series against the likes of McLaren.

At first attempts the CLK GTR was underperforming and had mechanical and technical issues to work out, the McLaren thus emerging victorious, however, after dedicated repeat engineering by AMG, Mercedes' in house racing tuner, through trial and error, reworked the CLK GTR to not only increase it's placing during the race, but to surpass the McLaren and come in place 1st.

It's a great and dedicated sport racing build by Mercedes. Asking price is a bit too much in my opinion, that being an understatement in my books, however, if that is how much Mercedes believes it's vehicle is worth, then that is the appropriate asking price. However, my personal opinion is that no vehicle should ever be 6 figures in price, let alone $1,000,000, 7 figures. The effort and creativity and passion put into the construction of these vehicles already can not have a price tag put on to them, as that passion and interest is priceless. A more in reach price tag allows access of this passion and creation to a wider audience that truly appreciates the creation of this vehicle.





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Old 01-11-2019, 04:06 AM
  #610  
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An AMG tuned CLK GT-R going for $4.1 million plus $500,000 in taxes and fees up to about a total cost of purchase for $4.6 million.

Now I don't mind that a car costs 7 figures, if that is it's worth according to the manufacturer, and of course according to the competing bidders, then that's how much it's worth. But it's just obscene to me how expensive the car is, there is no limit of value for passion, whether $16K, $80k, or $4.6 million, but the latter amount is so astronomically high, it's just incredible.

My philosophy is that all and any type of vehicle should be accessible to a vast majority of drivers out there, if the CLK GTR were to have an expensive price tag, in my world it wouldn't exceed $100K, but this model sold for 40 times that amount, 40x! That's $100,000 repeated 40 times. Apparently, there are people with that kind of money, however, when is the true worth of a car fully explored? Is the 4 million dollar price tag the true worth of the CLK GTR, or is it when an enthusiast actually gets behind the wheel to push the vehicle.

Or when an entire community of enthusiasts with access to the vehicle can begin to experiment, modify, and enhance factory stock settings. If not to enhance performance settings, visual or aesthetic mods can also be done. With a larger community base with access to the vehcile, the more possibilities become apparent for the enhancement of that vehicle. Which is exactly what has happened to the Skyline, with so many in circulation, and used ones available so cheap, many enthusiasts and racers have bought these, then tuned and modified them with the left over cash turning them into drift, racing, drag, or what have you machines, ie G35 and G37; ie the Mustang, with it's own aftermarket modding community, ie how the creation of the 1000 HP Acura Integra came to be.

Yes when the larger driver base has the car, there are more possibilities of creation, whether cosmetic, racing, show car, etc. And therefore, we can see through these driver based mods and experiments the true worth of the car, it's potential and limits, like the aftermarket driver developed twin turbo G35s and G37s as custom spec Skyline GT-R's.

Sure the CLK GTR is $4 million, that's just a material price tag, but what is it's true worth. Only the driver base knows.


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Old 01-13-2019, 02:31 AM
  #611  
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It goes without saying, but I'll say it anyway, the CLK GTR is a group 1 spec machine, which means super dedicated to racing function and competition, competing with likes of Porsche GT2 Evo aka Porsche GT1 and McLaren F1 machines. So this car is already racing sport dedicated from the factory, ie all the carbon fiber material used in it's chassis to keep weight minimal. The sport racing engineering is already strong from factory, so many will state what could an enthusiast driver base do to these cars to make them better???

There are always ways to improve a project, one of the members on this website has the signature: "a good project is never done." If not upgraded components, maintenance of components also plays a key role. However, what could have the driver base done to improve the CLK GTR further? That I believe can only be accurately answered if there a larger enthusiast base with access to this car. For one, the V12 engine on the CLK GTR is normally aspirated making 600 HP and approximately 400+ TQ. Aftermarket force induction could obviously help to increase power output. If not, afternarket access to tuning could potentially enhance power output in the engines original NA state. There maybe better suspension options, aero, lighter weight options for components, who knows. This question could only be answered if the car was actually available to a larger group of drivers with the will and means to upgrade the car further.

In short, it is rather a disservice to the vehicle itself for inflating it's price so astronomically that it ends becoming completely inaccessible to a driver base, ie an enthusiast driver base. Perhaps only those with the resources to acquire and drive these higher priced machines, whether or not they mod them, which is unlikely since the price tag they paid will defer such creative aftermarket ventures. Therefore, inflating a vehicle's price to several million does a disservice to the car itself, out of reach price tags don't necessarily determine a car's value, just the inflation of manufacturers, a car's true worth lies with the driver and the mysterious possibilities that maybe between the car, the driver, and the imagination. The more drivers with access the larger collective of imagination and the resultant varied engineering.

Some have the misconception that once a car becomes available to a larger group of people it loses its value, which is just not true, perhaps this is an illusion of the ego, every time a G35 on the streets, or a G37, even if it is factory stock, I get tunnel vision and its the only car I see in traffic. I check it out, look for mods, or simply appreciate and scrutinize the design and lines of the factory stock model. Apprecating and also criticizing what the company has created. If I see a well modified Civic, or Integra, then that car catches my attention just as much as any other well built car whether aftermarket or factory stock. There are a plethora of G37's out there, especially the sedan, I see the coupe once in a while, but everytime I do see one, it still grabs my attention. I get the same level of excitement if I were to see a factory Civic Type R, G37---especially modded, or a CLK GTR, or Lamborghini. In fact, I saw such a beautifl sport modified Honda Civic sedan at the mall, with coil over lowering suspension, custom racing seats, exhaust, and aero, I was just so in love with its potentiality as a sport machine.

Yes if you have a rare car, it is special in its own way, but it doesn't necessarily completely overshadow other more common cars out there, especially if those cars are also well modified for performance sake, then they become as equally intriguing, and being one of a kind builds themselves, despite factory stocks running everywhere, there mods and given capabilities allow them to become "rare" or special in their own right.

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Old 01-13-2019, 02:30 PM
  #612  
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This build makes me extremely jealous, it is nearly perfect. The exterior mods are absolutely gorgeous, just art. It is a twin turbo VQ V6 setup, custom wheels and air suspension, with a ZELE body kit. It is simply a beautiful Skyline build, using the Skyline GT-R power train specification. Of course I am using the power train spec to class this car as a G37 Skyline GT-R, although yes other regions of mods are just as important, but to reiterate, in my opinion modifying the power train to Skyline GT-R spec is the single most important mod that crosses the threshold into that category. Suspension, chassis mods, should follow the power train mod, conversely, if there were top notch suspension and other mods, but the engine was still stock, still couldn't call it a Skyline GT-R, instead a Skyline GT. Once you have a updated the heart if the beast, its up to the driver how far he is willing to take a Skyline GT-R build via other critical racing mods.


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Old 01-13-2019, 03:00 PM
  #613  
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Speaking of automotive art:




R34 Skyline and the R35 GTR

Silvia

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Old Yesterday, 04:25 PM
  #614  
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I believe the definition of a muscle car would be a V8 engine or higher, the V8 or + must be all motor, ie all muscle, with no superchargers or turbos.

A muscle car with force induction would be what I would call Tuned Muscle, due to a requirement of more in-depth power train tuning as compared to a normally aspirated engine, ie boost control, engine reworking, other upgrades.

A Pony car is defined as a compact to midsize vehicle with a sporty focus. These cars usually use no larger than 6 cylinder engines, although at times V8 cylinder engines can also be used in the same chassis, this is where the Pony car category blends into Muscle car category.

However, for the sake of simplicity, as today's definition of pony car takes the chassis size into equation, I believe it is much more easier to base Pony car vs. Muscle car solely on their power train philosophy, whether 4-6 cyl. vs 8 cyl. or more, respectively.

For example, the Nissan R35 GT-R, it's chassis dimension and bulk is far from a compact car, having generous proportions to it's build, however, it's power train is a twin turbo V6, there is no way we can classify this machine as a muscle car even though it can be considered a heavy chassis build compared to most other cars in it's category.

If the R35 GT-R were using a V8 normally aspirated, it would definitely be a muscle car, even if it had a more compact design, it could still be termed a muscle car due to using a NA V8. It is not the chassis design that determines the category, but the engine, which is the muscle that moves the chassis frame, similarly how muscles contract to move the skeletal frame of the body. Muscle powers movement, and so does the motor in a vehicle, and a motor with more cylinders hence offers more muscle for movement, hence the larger 8 cylinder engines being termed Muscle Cars. The chassis size, compactness, bulkiness is not the muscle that moves the car, hence its incorporation into defining whether a car is Muscle or not is rather obsolete. The chassis is the skeletal frame of a car that follows the engine, which is empowering its motion. Now if the R35 GT-R were using a twin turbo V8, I would call it Tuned Muscle.

However, since the R35 GTR is using a V6 as the basis of it's power and propulsion, it is more appropriate to call it a Pony car, or a Tuned Pony Car, due to increased demand for tuning in FI builds, ie a twin turbo setup on the V6.

Pony car and Muscle car are terms coined in the United States, and usually describe American cars, but vehicles of similar category despite market of origin, can also find application to these descriptive terms as well. These terms are useful in that they give a person a quick snapshot of what the car is packing under it's hood and then also reflect on the dynamics of the engine used in relation to the size and dimension of the chassis.

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Old Yesterday, 04:33 PM
  #615  
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If we look at the Lexus RCF, it's a V8 powered machine, and hence it is a muscle car. In Japan it would be domestic muscle, in the US or elsewhere, it would be imported Muscle. But it is still a muscle car based on the choice of power train provided the V8 not using any superchargers or turbos.

Therefore:

1. )There is the Pony car: NA V6 cars with a sport focus. The G35 and G37 are good examples of imported Pony cars, NA V6 machines.

2.) Then you have Muscle cars: any vehicle powered by a NA V8 engine, an example being again the Lexus RC-F. Now all of these categories mentioned require that the overall build of the vehicle be for racing/sport purposes. A Mercedes Benz S class also uses a V8 engine, however, this vehicle is purposed for Luxury and not racing/sport purposes, due to this, it would NOT be termed a Muscle car, despite its powertrain being 8 cylinders at least, instead it would be a Luxury car due to its overwhelming luxury design purpose. There has to be an inclusion of sport/racing element for the V8 or higher vehicle for it to be termed a Muscle car, not for solely economy or luxury purposes. Also no use of Turbos or Superchargers.

3.) Then it's Tuned Pony cars: any car V6 or less, using turbos or superchargers in it's sport racing build, ie turbo VQ V6 G35's and G37's shared on this thread.

4.) Finally, Tuned Muscle category cars: any V8 or higher making use of FI via a turbo or supercharger to further boost (pun not intended) its higher cylinder engine's performance numbers. A prime example being the Viper's V10 engine with turbo incorporation.

These are the 4 major categories of racing modified vehicles.

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