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Twin Turbo thread Redone: Skyline lineage & Heritage

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Old 11-07-2018, 04:24 PM
  #571  
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Speaking of enthusiast focused brands and makes, the Viper is, like the Porsche, one of the most racing enthusiast focused vehicles ever to grace the automotive industry. The Viper also prides itself on never going fully machine in its gearbox, and has always offered the driver input driven fully manual clutch, 6MT gearbox.

The V10 powered Viper GTS-R was my first childhood favorite sports car. It is essentially the modern version of the Shelby Cobra, and both its spiritual and direct successor.


Group CN---Hill Climb spec.

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Old 11-07-2018, 05:21 PM
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Quickly referring back to the Porsche 911, here is a 2018 GT2 road spec 911. It is using a 7 speed PDK automatic clutch transmission. It's previous generation manufactured from '07-'12, came fully manual with a 6MT, it is this 2018 model which has finally departed from the enthusiast tradition and gone fully automated, machinated AT clutch.

However, I will have to re-confirm rumors that Porsche will also be releasing a fully manual 6MT clutch version for the 2018 model generation as well.

Porsche went AT in clutch for its motorsport division as early as 2005, and its GT2 911 RS road spec car has finally gone AT clutch as late as this year in 2018.


Enjoy the video's look at the GT2 RS Porsche.

FUN FACT: Porsche has a modified GT2 911 that has been further racing enhanced to participate in the more racing focused GT1 racing series. This further racing modded GT2 Porsche is called the GT2 EVO. The GT2 Evo Porsche laid the ground work and inspiration for the GT1 911 Porsche.

EDIT: I suppose this vehicle would do better with traction and cornering with an AWD system.

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Old 11-07-2018, 10:08 PM
  #573  
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So the GT2 RS is the only GT2 911 to not be factory released as a 6MT transmission. Porsche says it is focused on speed and efficient shifting so as to provide the most razor sharp track performance possible. Manual gearboxes with human input derived gear changes is just too slow compared to an Automatic clutch system.

Thus, the RS GT2 will not be getting a 6MT edition, and it will be the only GT2 911 to go AT clutch and shifting. However, Porsche still avidly provides fully manual gearboxes for the enthusiast in its various sport focused models, ie the GT3 911.

Here's an excerpt from Jalopnik's article:

"
“RS means Renn Sport, which means it has to be quick on the track, that it’s all about fast times on the track, and that means the PDK. The PDK has advantages on the track that can’t be beaten by a manual, and the ones who prefer the manual transmission are not typically the track rats as we call them, but they are those who like to enjoy their cars on the normal public roads. I would say a GT2 RS with a manual option would have a four or five percent share of the market, we couldn’t justify that.”--------Porsche Motorsport Division’s head of road-car development, Andreas Preuinger,
Translation: hell nah."

full article: https://jalopnik.com/suprise-suprise...-in-1820270352

Apparently Mr. Preuinger hasn't heard of the Viper, a true track weapon which has yet to go automatic. (fingers crossed), and has broken track records across 11 different courses.

How about we put the Viper against the 911 RS and see who has the better track time? Perhaps the decision to go fully AT is more percentages and profit as opposed to driver engagement. Basically he stated that manual transmission sales amount to only 4-5% of profit return, therefore, spending company money to develop 6MT's with little return is just not money-smart for a company.

Not that the 6MT isn't meant for the track. If 6MT is meant for anything, it is for the track, it is for the sport enthusiast who wishes full engagement with his vehicle, such enthusiasts are probably the ones more likely to take their vehicle to a track. Porsche's Motorsport Division's head is simply making excuses not to build a 6MT for the GT2 RS. Of course 6MT's are meant for the track, an enthusiast is more likely to be a racing fan, and more likely to enjoy 6MT, and therefore more likely to track his car.

Ok so the PDK has advantages on the track that can't be beaten by a manual, ok firstly tell that to the Viper, and secondly prove it. Give us a head to head with a similarly spec'd, 6MT previous gen GT2 vs. the GT2 RS 7 speed AT. Were there track tests to prove this remark or was it just due to the assumption a machine/CPU will always shift better. What a machine has is precision, it can duplicate the same results, make the same movements exactly as timed or indicated, meaning reliable shifting at each specified timed point to shift as directed by set instructions in the CPU, but does that make it better or more competitive than 6MT? Where the driver can shift as he pleases at whatever speed, given gear ratios allow that flexibility with top speed distributions and torque. This can allow 6MT transmission more freedom in selecting gears at the given speed, and more or less flexible gear ratios can simulate the precision of a CPU.

Given an experienced driver, can a fully manual 6MT deliver similar performance to a AT?

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Old 11-08-2018, 02:35 AM
  #574  
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Certified as the most track record holder of any production car in the world. The Viper ACR (American Club Racer). And has always been a fully manual clutch 6MT gearbox.


Moreover, if 6MT isn't meant for the track, then what was it meant for anyway? Stop and go traffic during rush hour on your daily commute? Rush hour is exactly where an AT transmission is most comfortable, not 6MT. Given proper gear ratios, proper top speeds for each gear, and torque output spread advantageously in low to mid gears, 6MT's can rival any AT transmission out there.

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Old 11-08-2018, 03:22 PM
  #575  
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Okay, that's enough defending the 6MT gearbox, although yes it is the most engaging and involved way to shift gears, and the most human input in deciding acceleration and torque output during a race, however, you might not just have the time to manually engage the clutch and keep the car on the track and not eat dirt at very high speeds. Sure if you are good and experienced I am sure a driver with good gear ratios can keep up with a AT transmission in competitive racing, however, I can imagine how cumbersome it may become when managing to corner and wrangle a car at high speeds and having to worry about engaging clutch, shifting gears, and re-engaging throttle. Experienced drivers will no problem, but even an experienced driver may prefer not to worry about engaging a clutch when negotiating his vehicle around turns at extremely high speeds.

This is likely why the 911 RS is a PDK AT transmission. Similarly, the driver in the video below has twin turbo boosted his Viper, putting out 1800 HP, and has switched his gearbox from 6MT to a sequential shifter, making it easier for the driver to gnarl through gears quickly and keep control of his car without having to divert his attention to engaging and disengaging a clutch manually.

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Old 11-08-2018, 05:49 PM
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California's Mustang/Ford modding community, particularly southern California. I believe southern California is where all the modding, JDM, hot rodding scene began. Hot rodding is just the old school way of saying modding and custom builds. All of the custom built, custom spec cars featured on this thread are all essentially Hot Rods.


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Old 11-08-2018, 10:48 PM
  #577  
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When people think Hot Rods they usually assume modded out classic cars like the first pic below, however, that is not entirely true. Modding of course has old roots and obviously some of the first vehicles to be custom modified are going to be the much older vehicle models of antiquity. Hot Rods can also come to involve motorcycles as well, given that these motor cycles are custom spec, one-off builds like the one pictured below. Considered a Hot Rod motorcycle due to the custom work done on the two-wheeler vehicle.

Hot Rod-ing began in Southern California, and so did the JDM modding culture. One can assume and connect the dots that if building a Hot Rod, means custom modding a previous factory ride, or simply building a custom spec vehicle from scratch, this philosophy must have slowly trickled over to the JDM import scene down in Southern California. Not only were antique and contemporary American cars being modded, but import JDM vehicles as well. Southern Californians were custom race modifying stock, factory cars as early as the 1950's, and then of course drag racing them.

The Japanese immigrants to the United States in So Cal (Southern California) played a key in bringing JDM vehicles into the spotlight, they themselves would follow modding trends from Japan and applying it to their imported cars. However, with the already historic and strong racing modification culture in So Cal, these import modders, ie Hot Roders, were right at home. Soon enough JDM cars were no longer popular just among the Japanese diaspora, but also among non-Japanese car enthusiasts as well. And if the Japanese immigrants weren't modding these cars, the car culture in So Cal would have eventually got to them anyway.

Since Hot Rods are the oldest version of modding and custom builds here in the United States, I would say they gave birth to the custom modification culture we have today in the United States, and any custom built, one off, or custom modified vehicle today is essentially a Hot Rod in American terms.

Now its interesting to note, were the Japanese immigrants who imported and modified their JDM vehicles influenced and sparked by the car culture in So Cal, or was it simply a random occurrence within that particular immigrant community? Although car modding may have began independently at whatever times in both Japan and the United States, however, since the import modding scene also exploded in So Cal, like the Hot Rod-ing and custom race scenes before it, I would say that California car culture also impacted Japanese importers to mod their vehicles. JDM cars were likely also being imported all over the United States, but the import modding and race scenes are first recorded to have begun in So Cal and not any other region in the country. Japanese immigrants may also have been in other regions of the US as well, but California is where the culture began. Therefore, it must have been So Cal's car culture catalyst that encouraged the creation of such import modification and racing in the United States.

Import racing in So Cal goes back to the 1960's, but most of these imports were German vehicles, Japanese immigrants introduced Japanese imports in the 70's and 80's, and thus introduced JDM makes to the already thriving So Cal car culture, adding variety to the region's historical modding scene legacy dating back to the 1950's.














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Old 11-09-2018, 12:49 AM
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The first motorised car was built in Germany by Carl Benz, known as the Benz Patent Motor Car. Ford's Model T was the first time a motorised vehicle was able to be mass produced at efficient cost, and sold to the general public at affordable rates. And car modding for whatever purposes, racing, show, may very well have begun in California.

The Benz Motor Car was built in 1885

Henry Ford first popularised and mass produced the idea of a motorized vehicle to the public in 1908 with the Model T

The first car to arrive in Japan was through a partnership with Britain in 1922; the vehicle was called the A9.

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Old 11-09-2018, 01:12 AM
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1885 Benz Motor Car




1908 Ford Model T




Joint Japanese-British 1922 A 9




custom modded from factory stock 1923 Model T. Model T's were released by the Ford factory from 1908-1927.

The real question here is, how would you mod that 1885 Benz Motor Car???

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Old 11-09-2018, 04:33 PM
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A well modified Mach 1 Mustang, not sure if the Cobra back bumper is stock, however, according to wiki the Mach 1 does incorporate some SVT Cobra specifications into its build. Remember, SVT Cobras are different from Shelby Cobras, and depending on the model of Shelby Cobra, it is either built by Ford using the Shelby name or it is directly modded by the aftermarket tuner themselves. However, SVT Cobras are modded by Ford's in house racing development team, while Shelby Cobras are generally modded by Shelby America.

the Mach 1 Mustang. That V8 crackle is so characteristic.

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Old 11-09-2018, 07:41 PM
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When it comes to the automotive industry and automotive modding, I am personally a Purist at heart, I want makes, models. and powertrains to stay in house as possible, so naturally you would understand my dismay at say a LS swapped Rx-7 or a 2JZ Silvia (240sx) as featured in the below video. If I were these modders I would use Mazda's new turbo Skayactiv diesel engine for the RX-7; or the RB I6 for the Nissan 240SX, keeping Mazda tech with the Mazda make and Nissan tech with the Nissan vehicle, etc.

However, despite tugging at my Purist enthusiast side the wrong way, the video below is shared to more importantly showcase 6MT drivers and their shifting capabilities. These cars are high powered, 7-8 sec cars and these fully manual clutch, 6MT shifters are keeping pace with acceleration and shifting never missing a beat, achieving very low 1/4 mile times without the aid of an AT clutch transmission, tip-tronic, or paddle shifters.

These are all fully manual clutch, 6MT racers:

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Old 11-10-2018, 01:11 PM
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That Mustang is absolutely amazing looking, and its speed and boost 2nd to none, however @ 8:51 when that 3000GT VR4 turbo shows up i was just blown away, I've never seen a 3000GT move like that before.

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Old 11-10-2018, 02:34 PM
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found some great memes













































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Old 11-10-2018, 03:47 PM
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^^^^^wait til you tell them that a single turbo is a Skyline GT-T and a twin turbo is a Skyline GT-R based on powertrain spec philosophy.

The R35 GTR isn't a Skyline, but the G35, G37 with no factory Skyline GT-R builds are. Funny how the world works out sometimes.

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Old 11-11-2018, 12:00 AM
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I have only two words for this build: God Damn.

I've shared a triple rotor Hill climb FC rx7 on this thread, i dont recall if it was turbo, but this is a turbo, 4 rotor racing sport build FD rx7. It's phenomenal.

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