Rr1982

iTrader: (1)

I'm not going here with you buddy.

Ape Factory

iTrader: (3)

I think you misconstrue. Not trying to bust your b*lls. But...the last post was 2011 but it's all in good fun.

Anyway....seriously on the plugs. Google it if you don't believe me. I have plenty of experience actually tuning high hp cars with stand-alone ECU's, specifically rotaries. The margin of error with rotaries is...oh who am I kidding, there is no margin. I used plug reads along with a host of other datalogged inputs to tune. Too many pulls and there's no way to actually read the plugs. Needs to be a WOT pull. Too much part throttle/cruise, it imparts its own info on the plugs. Now if you see particles of metal attached to the porcelain or the strap/electrode is worn away, that's another story. Probably too late by then anyway.

Rr1982

iTrader: (1)

Based on your post referring to "white charring" as you call it-that is always indicative of a lean mixture, whether at wide open throttle on a dyno or just daily driving.Im just making a fact based reference to your post as it reads. Either I'm not reading your statement correctly or you are misinformed and I believe facts should always be inserted so others are not misled. Don't you? I also have spent time installing and tuning complete Stand alone systems as well as complete engine building. If you've got white residue on plugs after dyno pulls or after cruising around you need to monitor afr's and add fuel where needed. 17:1 is real lean even at cruise but possible. Every NA engine has different ranges of optimal afr's at wot some make best torque/power at 13:1 with a little earlier ignition ,based on distances across combustion chambers and so much more. Yes it's a fine line between white and white with aluminum specks,but I'd rather waste a little fuel,just to be safe.

Ape Factory

iTrader: (3)

Well white residue can be imparted on plugs over a long period of time. Can be fairly prevalent on cars that see a lot of highway miles because the air/fuel ratios necessary to maintain cruising speed are fairly lean. Now just because an engine is running lean, doesn't mean it's doing damage and modern engines have very efficient combustion chambers and ECU's that make running lean mixtures possible. Blame the EPA. But if you have 20K miles on a set of plugs, reading them is worthless.

If the OP had installed new plugs and done a few WOT runs down the road, pulled the plugs and they were extremely white with the ground strap partially eroded, that'd be a different story entirely. But white residue by itself is fairly normal on plugs with a lot of miles.

Rr1982

iTrader: (1)

By your statement, removing a 20,000 mile plug and finding it wet and oil coated,or black soot coated would yield no useful information or "worthless".

Ape Factory

iTrader: (3)

For determining air/fuel ratio or possible detonation, yes, that is correct. An oil coated plug could be caused by a leaking valve gasket. Also, a plug that is black, with lots of miles, doesn't tell you if the condition is at wide open throttle or partial throttle/cruise. Too many data points over too long a time. What if you're rich at idle but nowhere else?

White soot or black soot is cumulative over time, hence the reason high mileage plugs are not a good indicator of air/fuel ratio.

Forgot to mention...high detergent gas can also cause white soot.

Rr1982

iTrader: (1)

You are adding to your proclamation, you can not accurately read afr's by looking at a spark plug.Everything I stated was directly related to the previous wording of your posts and I intended to correct or add information. You are of course entitled to expand on what you had written,but please don't assume that myself or others can imagine your full ideas based on limited wording. I've been a member of many automotive forums for many years and I never could understand the great necessity and urgency of some to chastise anyone for posting on an old thread,even if the information in that thread is incorrect,incomplete or the new poster was in search of some helpful information,after all is it a chat room,or is it a worthy means to share valuable information on a common subject? Up until now I was quite pleased at how pleasant my experience has been after joining here compared to some of the other forums and the absence of the "old thread police" and clique mindset that infests other more immature of age forums.Im not saying that's you,but hopefully those things haven't found their way into this one.

Ape Factory

iTrader: (3)

Forums are absolutely about sharing helpful information (amongst other things) and if I offended you with the necro thread bump comment, wasn't my intention and I apologize. I'm just a bit on the dry, sarcastic side sometimes.

My point was that whatever situation there may have been (the OP having white plugs) were resolved one way or the other some time ago. And there wasn't enough information to determine whether he was running lean or not. Especially by reading old plugs.

So while sharing information is good, sharing disinformation doesn't really help anyone. And there's a whole lot of disinformation or fallacies that are perpetuated over time and people believe they're true. Hell, that's practically the internet's modus operandi.

Talk to anyone who is a reputable tuner and they'll tell you the same thing about reading plugs. I'm not making this **** up, it's based on my hands-on experiences and learning from very talented people who worked with factory race teams and/or owned high end tuning shops. I've spent a considerable amount of time tuning other people's cars from the ground up, including forced induction rotary engines which need an especially delicate tuning touch. Not for beginners in other words.

Rr1982

iTrader: (1)

I Agree.Apology accepted.than you!

kennyz424

iTrader: (147)

Whewww this debate was an intense one to read but I'm glad we are all still friends at the end of it. And very well points and information given on both your ends.

Rr1982

iTrader: (1)

Thanks Kenny.