WEIRD SNOW DRIVING QUIRK- Rear End Slides Out when STOPPED.
11-23-2010, 03:59 AM
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WEIRD SNOW DRIVING QUIRK- Rear End Slides Out when STOPPED.
CHALLENGE QUESTION: REAR END SLIP AT STOP
-'09 INFINITI G37x
Our new '09 Infiniti G37x AWD sedan is a fine car. Not without defects though....
First my wife, then I, experienced that the rear-end would slowly slip-out to the side when we were stopped in the snow, engine running, car in DRIVE. When I experienced this (during a freak Portland snow storm), I was stopped on a crowned road surface in freezing temps (our heavy wet snow turns to ice at night). I had to VERY FIRMLY press the brake pedal to stop the car from pivoting around the front tires. I was curious as to how far this would go and stopped goofing around when the rear wheels were shifted several feet off-center (and towards a drainage ditch). Placing the transmission in NEUTRAL instantly stops the car from sliding.
Now my theory (without standing outside the vehicle) is that the engine is overcoming the rear wheel brakes if the pedal is not firmly pressed, causing them to churn slowly forward. The front wheels must be remaining locked causing the rear end to try and pivot around them. I think I had the car in SNOW MODE as it was so icy. [Snow Mode = 50/50 torque split (front-to-rear) upon take-off up 30mph or so] I think I took it out of SNOW MODE and found the same result, though I am not positive of that as it's been almost a year.
Anyone heard of this? Solutions? I was thinking that if the brake system was to favor the front brakes upon actuation, the rear wheels could slip causing the sliding. Race cars have adjustable front-to-rear brake bias controllers I think (at least on Gran Turismo 3 they do ). Could the G37 have an adjustable brake bias control? With Winter quickly approaching the Pacific Northwest, I'd like to get this quirk resolved. Dealer says bring it in when it's happening - not much help as we get snow 1-2x year and it's best to get the hell off the roads ASAP during a Portland snowstorm. Drivers are inexperienced and our Department of Transportation is under-prepared/under-funded for much help so we a flurry of crashes and fender benders (just Google Portland Ice Storm and you'll see exactly what I mean!).
A $40K car shouldn't do this! What's the deal?!
mtbjay
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:21 am
Car: 2009 INFINITI G37X
-'09 INFINITI G37x
Our new '09 Infiniti G37x AWD sedan is a fine car. Not without defects though....
First my wife, then I, experienced that the rear-end would slowly slip-out to the side when we were stopped in the snow, engine running, car in DRIVE. When I experienced this (during a freak Portland snow storm), I was stopped on a crowned road surface in freezing temps (our heavy wet snow turns to ice at night). I had to VERY FIRMLY press the brake pedal to stop the car from pivoting around the front tires. I was curious as to how far this would go and stopped goofing around when the rear wheels were shifted several feet off-center (and towards a drainage ditch). Placing the transmission in NEUTRAL instantly stops the car from sliding.
Now my theory (without standing outside the vehicle) is that the engine is overcoming the rear wheel brakes if the pedal is not firmly pressed, causing them to churn slowly forward. The front wheels must be remaining locked causing the rear end to try and pivot around them. I think I had the car in SNOW MODE as it was so icy. [Snow Mode = 50/50 torque split (front-to-rear) upon take-off up 30mph or so] I think I took it out of SNOW MODE and found the same result, though I am not positive of that as it's been almost a year.
Anyone heard of this? Solutions? I was thinking that if the brake system was to favor the front brakes upon actuation, the rear wheels could slip causing the sliding. Race cars have adjustable front-to-rear brake bias controllers I think (at least on Gran Turismo 3 they do ). Could the G37 have an adjustable brake bias control? With Winter quickly approaching the Pacific Northwest, I'd like to get this quirk resolved. Dealer says bring it in when it's happening - not much help as we get snow 1-2x year and it's best to get the hell off the roads ASAP during a Portland snowstorm. Drivers are inexperienced and our Department of Transportation is under-prepared/under-funded for much help so we a flurry of crashes and fender benders (just Google Portland Ice Storm and you'll see exactly what I mean!).
A $40K car shouldn't do this! What's the deal?!
mtbjay
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Nov 23, 2010 12:21 am
Car: 2009 INFINITI G37X
11-23-2010, 08:28 AM
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I never had that exact problem, but I had a lot of problems with the crappy RSA tires slipping out on me. I dumped them and got a set of Yokohama W*Drive Winter tires. Made a world of difference.
It was funny, my wife was against me getting new tires until she was in the car and it happened twice in a half mile. I had my new tires two days later.
It was funny, my wife was against me getting new tires until she was in the car and it happened twice in a half mile. I had my new tires two days later.
11-23-2010, 11:50 AM
#4
very strange!
the front should "never" lock up without the ABS kicking in.
that being said, I've managed to lock them up while going very slow <5mph on ice and slamming on the brakes. The rear end did slide out somewhat due to the ice and the ABS did NOT turn on!? Now I was "practicing" in an empty parking lot at the time, just to check things out... I also did some launches & donuts on the ice/compacted snow to see how she would handle, in case it did occur in real world driving circumstances
I would suggest doing the same when the weather allows.
I just re-read your post
most cars are balanced to have the fronts do most of the braking.
maybe 70/30,
because that where most of the traction is when coming to a stop, and if the rears, lock up at speed, the car will spin around!
not sure how/why your situatation happened though, but definitley go out and try to recreate it in a safe area and see what happens
the front should "never" lock up without the ABS kicking in.
that being said, I've managed to lock them up while going very slow <5mph on ice and slamming on the brakes. The rear end did slide out somewhat due to the ice and the ABS did NOT turn on!? Now I was "practicing" in an empty parking lot at the time, just to check things out... I also did some launches & donuts on the ice/compacted snow to see how she would handle, in case it did occur in real world driving circumstances
I would suggest doing the same when the weather allows.
I just re-read your post
most cars are balanced to have the fronts do most of the braking.
maybe 70/30,
because that where most of the traction is when coming to a stop, and if the rears, lock up at speed, the car will spin around!
not sure how/why your situatation happened though, but definitley go out and try to recreate it in a safe area and see what happens
11-23-2010, 12:56 PM
#5
Brake bias is (somewhat) adjusted for automatically. Basically you're saying the front end of the car stays still, while the rear wheels are turning when stopped? Are you sure you're not accidentally pushing both the gas and brake pedal? The car won't overcome the brakes.
11-23-2010, 03:30 PM
#6
Physically, the rear end sliding out makes sense. The front is braking, but the rear still has inertia. So it will have a tendency to find the path of least resistance. Every car I have driven in snow does this if I brake too hard and don't give myself enough room.
Naturally, since you live in Portland, two inches of snow is a disaster (I live in Salem, we got some snow too).
It's time to learn how to drive in snow.
Naturally, since you live in Portland, two inches of snow is a disaster (I live in Salem, we got some snow too).
It's time to learn how to drive in snow.
01-01-2011, 09:18 PM
#7
Your theory is correct. The engine will over come the slight rear braking you get with normal pedal application when stopping on a slipery road. The simplest thing is to pop the gear selector in neutral when stopping and the car will react like you want it to.
I grew up in Southern Michigan in a snow belt where 15"-24" snows were the weekly norm this time of year. I have never found an automatic equipped vehicle that I couldn't ge to stop better by simply putting the gear selector in neutral when I wanted to stop. With all it's technology, the G-series is no different in this respect even with ABS and traction control.
I grew up in Southern Michigan in a snow belt where 15"-24" snows were the weekly norm this time of year. I have never found an automatic equipped vehicle that I couldn't ge to stop better by simply putting the gear selector in neutral when I wanted to stop. With all it's technology, the G-series is no different in this respect even with ABS and traction control.
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01-01-2011, 10:06 PM
#8
Registered User
[quote=Bietzarelli;3007214] the rear-end would slowly slip-out to the side when we were stopped in the snow, engine running, car in DRIVE.
I think most people missed this in the OP. The car was already stopped when the rear end started to move, right? If the brakes were applied, I don't see how this would happen, assuming normal operations...
I think most people missed this in the OP. The car was already stopped when the rear end started to move, right? If the brakes were applied, I don't see how this would happen, assuming normal operations...
01-03-2011, 10:48 AM
#9
This happened to me on my'09 G37s coupe. I would be completely stopped and the rear end would just slightly slide (in the snow). It's due to the crappy tires Potenzas. They are not built for the snow. Replaced them with Continental DWS & no more slipping.
12-30-2012, 08:03 AM
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You have described EXACTLY my issue while ascending an incline on a snow packed parkway in CT. I was in bumper to bumper traffic and had to move over to the right hand land so the rear end would not hit the car on my right. It was almost impossible to stop the car, it just slid along even at 1 to 3 MPH. I tried it in Snow Mode and had the same issue. My tires only had 5000 miles on them. Putting into neutral was the only thing that helped. I took it to the dealer who was clueless and useless and obviously thought it was my driving. I told them there were cars and vans of every description on the parkway, yes vans that were not have the difficulty I was. There was a Corvette doing better then I was! Thank you for posting this, I thought I was going out of my mind. As this is a two year old post I'm sure this will go unread but just in case anyone else has had this issue I would love to hear from you and take it to the dealer and prove I can drive!
12-30-2012, 10:11 AM
#11
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Yep i had this exact problem as well. I have an 08 sport, and while stopped on a slightly icy/snowy road the rear started slipping. I was like wtf, am i going crazy. Sure enough I am very sane lol, i did the same as you and threw it in neutral because it happened while holding the brake in drive. Pretty disturbing when it first happened so I know how you feel.
01-01-2013, 12:07 PM
#12
Wow this sounds like a weird problem. This is my first winter with my 09 X coupe. I figured I'd see how it performed in snow before splashing out for winter tires because working from home, I don't drive that much. We just had 8" dumped on us so I took it out for a spin before the plows came through to clean things up. I had no problems with traction at all on 4-6" of powder on the stock Dunlop A/S. Even took it to a parking lot to play a little. I didn't have the side slip problem you're describing when stopped.
01-03-2013, 11:06 PM
#13
Registered User
Your theory is correct. The engine will over come the slight rear braking you get with normal pedal application when stopping on a slipery road. The simplest thing is to pop the gear selector in neutral when stopping and the car will react like you want it to.
I grew up in Southern Michigan in a snow belt where 15"-24" snows were the weekly norm this time of year. I have never found an automatic equipped vehicle that I couldn't ge to stop better by simply putting the gear selector in neutral when I wanted to stop. With all it's technology, the G-series is no different in this respect even with ABS and traction control.
I grew up in Southern Michigan in a snow belt where 15"-24" snows were the weekly norm this time of year. I have never found an automatic equipped vehicle that I couldn't ge to stop better by simply putting the gear selector in neutral when I wanted to stop. With all it's technology, the G-series is no different in this respect even with ABS and traction control.
Other than the above I drove the g in 12+ inches in a freak snowstorm on the east coast. With oem tires no skids, no drama, no nothing. Didn't have to put the car in neutral. Just drove sanely for the conditions, the car started and stopped without issue.
02-25-2015, 03:39 PM
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I think I found the problem. It is the ABS sensor getting a false reading that the car is slipping. Because it is in drive when the brake pulses, and the G37 is a rwd/awd car, the back wheels turn with the front wheels locked, moving the car forward and causing a swerve. Putting the car in neutral stops this from happening because there is no longer power to the wheels so even if the ABS sensor tells the brakes to pulse, the car can't move.
The cause: I am not 100% sure but I think that it could be caused by salt water getting into the sensor connector, or into the sensor itself. I am going to talk to an Infiniti service mechanic to see if they can help figure it out for sure.
My story how I got to this problem:
I have a '10 G37x sport AT. This is my 4th winter with the car. I have driven in all kinds of icy snowy roads with her and she's been the best performing car I've ever driven.
Last night on my commute home the weather got awful. Snow accumulated and packed down on the roads and it was bumper to bumper everywhere. You all know how it goes. I should add I live in coastal VA so its flat but there is no preparedness for this kind of weather. About an hour into sitting in traffic the ABS started to pump as I depressed the brake at low speed not even high speed, like 3 mph or less. I could go from a stop, lift the brake but never take it off and start to depress it again, and the ABS would kick on and the back end of the car would start to swerve out but the car would NOT stop. It was scary as F...! I put the car in neutral and the brakes worked perfect again. I would come to a complete stop on a dime in any condition or incline... I had perfectly good traction. At one point I flipped on the snow button to see if that would change anything (which shouldn't make a difference because it is an electronic dampener for the throttle). And It didn't. I was at a standstill on level ground and the ABS started pumping and the car crept forward out of control. I drove the rest of the way home as if I had a manual, flipping into neutral before applying the brake and I got myself home.
For those of you that experienced this too. Don't feel bad its not your driving. I grew up in NY, lived in Buffalo for 4 years, and then Central VA before here. To add I'm an engineer, I understand newtonian physics. I know how to drive in all sorts of weather and I know how to handle this car.
I know this thread is old but hopefully this helps someone! Safe driving everyone.
The cause: I am not 100% sure but I think that it could be caused by salt water getting into the sensor connector, or into the sensor itself. I am going to talk to an Infiniti service mechanic to see if they can help figure it out for sure.
My story how I got to this problem:
I have a '10 G37x sport AT. This is my 4th winter with the car. I have driven in all kinds of icy snowy roads with her and she's been the best performing car I've ever driven.
Last night on my commute home the weather got awful. Snow accumulated and packed down on the roads and it was bumper to bumper everywhere. You all know how it goes. I should add I live in coastal VA so its flat but there is no preparedness for this kind of weather. About an hour into sitting in traffic the ABS started to pump as I depressed the brake at low speed not even high speed, like 3 mph or less. I could go from a stop, lift the brake but never take it off and start to depress it again, and the ABS would kick on and the back end of the car would start to swerve out but the car would NOT stop. It was scary as F...! I put the car in neutral and the brakes worked perfect again. I would come to a complete stop on a dime in any condition or incline... I had perfectly good traction. At one point I flipped on the snow button to see if that would change anything (which shouldn't make a difference because it is an electronic dampener for the throttle). And It didn't. I was at a standstill on level ground and the ABS started pumping and the car crept forward out of control. I drove the rest of the way home as if I had a manual, flipping into neutral before applying the brake and I got myself home.
For those of you that experienced this too. Don't feel bad its not your driving. I grew up in NY, lived in Buffalo for 4 years, and then Central VA before here. To add I'm an engineer, I understand newtonian physics. I know how to drive in all sorts of weather and I know how to handle this car.
I know this thread is old but hopefully this helps someone! Safe driving everyone.
02-12-2017, 06:54 PM
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I think I found the problem. It is the ABS sensor getting a false reading that the car is slipping. Because it is in drive when the brake pulses, and the G37 is a rwd/awd car, the back wheels turn with the front wheels locked, moving the car forward and causing a swerve. Putting the car in neutral stops this from happening because there is no longer power to the wheels so even if the ABS sensor tells the brakes to pulse, the car can't move.
The cause: I am not 100% sure but I think that it could be caused by salt water getting into the sensor connector, or into the sensor itself. I am going to talk to an Infiniti service mechanic to see if they can help figure it out for sure.
My story how I got to this problem:
I have a '10 G37x sport AT. This is my 4th winter with the car. I have driven in all kinds of icy snowy roads with her and she's been the best performing car I've ever driven.
Last night on my commute home the weather got awful. Snow accumulated and packed down on the roads and it was bumper to bumper everywhere. You all know how it goes. I should add I live in coastal VA so its flat but there is no preparedness for this kind of weather. About an hour into sitting in traffic the ABS started to pump as I depressed the brake at low speed not even high speed, like 3 mph or less. I could go from a stop, lift the brake but never take it off and start to depress it again, and the ABS would kick on and the back end of the car would start to swerve out but the car would NOT stop. It was scary as F...! I put the car in neutral and the brakes worked perfect again. I would come to a complete stop on a dime in any condition or incline... I had perfectly good traction. At one point I flipped on the snow button to see if that would change anything (which shouldn't make a difference because it is an electronic dampener for the throttle). And It didn't. I was at a standstill on level ground and the ABS started pumping and the car crept forward out of control. I drove the rest of the way home as if I had a manual, flipping into neutral before applying the brake and I got myself home.
For those of you that experienced this too. Don't feel bad its not your driving. I grew up in NY, lived in Buffalo for 4 years, and then Central VA before here. To add I'm an engineer, I understand newtonian physics. I know how to drive in all sorts of weather and I know how to handle this car.
I know this thread is old but hopefully this helps someone! Safe driving everyone.
The cause: I am not 100% sure but I think that it could be caused by salt water getting into the sensor connector, or into the sensor itself. I am going to talk to an Infiniti service mechanic to see if they can help figure it out for sure.
My story how I got to this problem:
I have a '10 G37x sport AT. This is my 4th winter with the car. I have driven in all kinds of icy snowy roads with her and she's been the best performing car I've ever driven.
Last night on my commute home the weather got awful. Snow accumulated and packed down on the roads and it was bumper to bumper everywhere. You all know how it goes. I should add I live in coastal VA so its flat but there is no preparedness for this kind of weather. About an hour into sitting in traffic the ABS started to pump as I depressed the brake at low speed not even high speed, like 3 mph or less. I could go from a stop, lift the brake but never take it off and start to depress it again, and the ABS would kick on and the back end of the car would start to swerve out but the car would NOT stop. It was scary as F...! I put the car in neutral and the brakes worked perfect again. I would come to a complete stop on a dime in any condition or incline... I had perfectly good traction. At one point I flipped on the snow button to see if that would change anything (which shouldn't make a difference because it is an electronic dampener for the throttle). And It didn't. I was at a standstill on level ground and the ABS started pumping and the car crept forward out of control. I drove the rest of the way home as if I had a manual, flipping into neutral before applying the brake and I got myself home.
For those of you that experienced this too. Don't feel bad its not your driving. I grew up in NY, lived in Buffalo for 4 years, and then Central VA before here. To add I'm an engineer, I understand newtonian physics. I know how to drive in all sorts of weather and I know how to handle this car.
I know this thread is old but hopefully this helps someone! Safe driving everyone.
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