Mobil 1 UOA
I had this done after my last oil change at about 19,000 miles. I've been using Mobil 1 for every oil change.
http://files.boppo.us/UOA 19000 Miles.jpg |
Thanks for posting!
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Evidence as to why Mobil actually replied to VQ37 owners that their oil was
not recommend for use in the VVEL engines. 2X the aluminum, 3X the iron, 2X the copper, and 2X the tin indicate excessive wear metals. The comment that "the excessive wear metal is from parts wearing-in" on an engine with over 19K is nonsense....PERIOD. As for the silicon, recommend checking and tightening all connections/fasteners on the air intake system and changing the air filters....it's probably time for new air filters after 19K anyway. JMHO...I'd consider switching oils soon. |
Jon, you do realize that 15k is the MINIMUM miles for a VQ-HR to break in.
Compound that with a slick synthetic, and it takes even longer. You can't draw conclusions from ONE uoa, especially given that the universal average also has an average engine life significantly higher than the OP's. Most UOA samples from from individuals who drive a lot. |
Originally Posted by JonfromCB
(Post 2838357)
Evidence as to why Mobil actually replied to VQ37 owners that their oil was not recommend for use in the VVEL
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Originally Posted by Mike
(Post 2838381)
Jon, you do realize that 15k is the MINIMUM miles for a VQ-HR to break in.
Compound that with a slick synthetic, and it takes even longer. You can't draw conclusions from ONE uoa, especially given that the universal average also has an average engine life significantly higher than the OP's. Most UOA samples from from individuals who drive a lot. require 15K to "wear-in" to proper operating tolerances or performance? You are the only person I've heard say or claim that it takes more than 15K miles to break-in any vehicle....including Nissan. I would argue that the only measurable "break-in" occurs between the piston rings and cylinder walls and either happens very quickly...or for sure by 5K for the "break-it-in easy drivers." In regards to oil. It is a myth that synthetic oil molecules are any more slippery than conventional oil molecules...just not true. The synthetic molecules form longer "chains" that are considerably more resistent to shear and visocity "break down" but the coeficient of drag is esentially a function of visocity rather than base group. synthetic and conventional oils use the very same types and similar amounts of friction modifiers, which would not even be necessary if your argument was correct. I would hardly say that double and triple the wear metals as compared to other cars/engines with that number of miles and nearly the same oil change interval is hardly drawing unevidenced conclusions from one analysis.....Your remark that I'm making a incorrect conclusion based on one anaysis is contrary to your claim that synthetic oil is "slicker" than conventional. You could spend some time looking at wear metals in other oil analysis with like mileage ...Ford, Toyota, Hyundai engines using conventional oils at that interval and mileage and then explain why those engines produce oil analysis at or below universal averages for wear metals and this engine/oil combination is showing so high.....your comments don't make sense. Are you saying that all those other engines using conventional oils are just built better than the Nissan so they don't shed wear metals???? Or that the conventional oils being used in them are superior? I don't think so. According to your theory about "synthetic oil slowing down the break-in process", this analysis should show lower shedding of wear metals....not more! If you think this is a good oil/engine combination then by all means go ahead and use it. Will it run? yes Will it last? probably long enough. Is the oil protecting the engine well compared to other oils and other engine/oil combinations with similar miles? ....NOT AT ALL. |
Originally Posted by Black Betty
(Post 2838402)
Were can I find Mobil's recommendation to VQ37 owners that Mobil 1 NOT be used in the VVEL engine?
a specific oil for the the VAQ37VHR engine and was told " they do not have a oil they recommend for this application".....however they went on to tell me that they did have several blends that met the API "SM" rating and the 5w30 viscosity requirements for the engine. It was pretty clear to me that they knew exactly what they were saying to me....you can decide for yourself. I wish I had kept that email ....but I can tell you that I have read of similar responses from Mobil to other Nissan owners on this board and others...should be easy to find...check the"definitie oil thread" on this board and search "bobistheoilguy" site too. Or just write to them youself and ask. |
UOA has shown VQ35HR's to take as long as 30k miles before samples stabilize.
Your theories are not backed by the evidence, in this case. Also, the universal average is per engine, not literally universal. You have quite a bit of reading to do at the BITOG forums. |
Originally Posted by JonfromCB
(Post 2838677)
Black Betty, I personally wrote to Mobil asking them to recommend
a specific oil for the the VAQ37VHR engine and was told " they do not have a oil they recommend for this application".....however they went on to tell me that they did have several blends that met the API "SM" rating and the 5w30 viscosity requirements for the engine. It was pretty clear to me that they knew exactly what they were saying to me....you can decide for yourself. I wish I had kept that email ....but I can tell you that I have read of similar responses from Mobil to other Nissan owners on this board and others...should be easy to find...check the"definitie oil thread" on this board and search "bobistheoilguy" site too. Or just write to them youself and ask. |
Originally Posted by Mike
(Post 2838824)
UOA has shown VQ35HR's to take as long as 30k miles before samples stabilize.
Your theories are not backed by the evidence, in this case. Also, the universal average is per engine, not literally universal. You have quite a bit of reading to do at the BITOG forums. just disagree about this. Thanks for the tip on reading more, I'll do that, and I do understand "universal averages" use in UOAs....that's why I recommed comparison of other makes/engines using same oil with similar mileage...I'm sure you understand that. I'm sure you see plenty of engines with high wear-in metals at 30K. That does not mean the engines are still breaking-in ...It just means the high amounts of shed wear-in metals are still in the crankcase! You especially know that many owners only do minimal maintenance at maximum intervals... Your example only proves the junk is still in the oil because the engines have only had three or four oil changes...It does not prove that the engines are still breaking in. I'm certainly not "new" or inexperienced in regards to engines and oil. I've had 23 new cars and 10 new motorcycles in the last 20 years. I have stopped doing UOAs because I have learned that regardless of engine...V6, flat 6, straight 6, V8, Vtwin, straight 4 I have consistently seen stabilization of wear metals in every engine prior to 10K WITH NO EXCEPTIONS by doing "hard break-ins" followed by several short interval OICs...ie 300 miles, 1k, 3k, 5k then go 5-7k depending on months/miles driven. You cite a VQ35 as your example of taking 30K miles to break-in. I can say first hand I personally did a "hard break'in" of my own M35X with oil changes at 300, 1K, 3K and switched from conventional to Rotella T-syn at 5K and got stabilized wear by 10K....one third the time/miles of your example... and I have gotten similar results over and over. I'm just sharing my experience....take it or leave it Since I'm taking your advice and reading more on "bitog", here's some interesting reading from there that contriverts your claims... .http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums...38#Post1295538 Note that this example obviously stabilized wear metals PRIOR TO THIS OIL WHICH WAS PUT IN WAY BEFORE 30k....just sayin' |
My s2k is a great counterexample to your example.
It took roughly 20k for wear levels to stabilize, and I did a hard break-in as well. The first 25k miles or so on the car were exclusively track and canyon miles. The car was in excess of 6000 RPM for 30 minute sessions 4-7 times a day, 2-4 days a month, and was also seeing 2-3 canyon runs a week. The day my car hit 600 miles, the car also saw the fuel cut in 6th gear. Tires varied from RE070 (least stickiest) to NT01 (stickiest), all of which are capable of generating in excess of 1.1G lateral on a flat surface, and a peak of 1.8G at SoW and Cal Speedway. The first 16k were on regular oil. I have a sample from every oil change done if you'd like to see the trends. My STI and first s2k had similar trends, although with different driving habits. I never did any UOA on my G, as it is just a daily driver. Your example does show low wear, but we also need a virgin sample for comparison. The universal average will always be higher than what a well broken in engine should be at for many reasons: it includes new engines with high amounts of metal, rebuilt engines, extremely-worn engines, unknown additive packages, etc. There are far too many confounding variables. |
Thanks for the reply. Interesting that you got such similar
oil samples from such drastically different scenarios. I would say the 1st example is "wear metal" rather than "wear-in metal"...lol. I agree, there are lots of variables to break-in. The big question of our conversation is...Can break-in wear, time/hours be controlled? My answer is arguably yes it can, and I don't expect anyone who hasn't seen my results for themselves to agree; but..... there are many "motorcycle collectors, builders, and racers who agree with me and swear by a hard break-in (in fact many new bikes are run to redline on a assembly line dyno') with several short interval oil changes. I've been lucky and blessed with many vehicles and resourses to "investigate" these things for myself. However, returning to the topic of this thread... do different oils lubricate a given engine better than others?....Yes they do. Would I use Mobil 1 in a VQ? No I would not. There are many UOAs showing much lower wear metal shedding during and after break-in (however you want to define break-in) than Mobil 1 provides in the VQ37VHR engine. In the VQ35 there are many UOAs showing much less Fe than Mobil 1 UOAs....enough compared to multiple Mobil 1 virgin analysis that I'm convinced mobil 1 is not the best match with any Nissan...and yes I have used Mobil 1 in my Infiniti's and No I don't have any "axe to grind" with Mobil...they make good products. Again, there are too many superior results from other oils providing better results in Nissan motors, both in early engine samples and after break-in. The above UAO is just further support of my claim. |
FWIW, I have a friend that builds motors for Yoshimura Suzuki, and they don't do any sort of break-in. The engines are built and then raced, or sold to a client who will then proceed to race.
Vastly different from a car, but I think we can agree that these race engines have a lot more stress on them. They sure as hell aren't using mobil 1 :bowrofl: |
Originally Posted by Mike
(Post 2840483)
FWIW, I have a friend that builds motors for Yoshimura Suzuki, and they don't do any sort of break-in. The engines are built and then raced, or sold to a client who will then proceed to race.
Vastly different from a car, but I think we can agree that these race engines have a lot more stress on them. They sure as hell aren't using mobil 1 :bowrofl: That's great...I'm laughing so hard I better check my drawers |
So after this all being said, would Mobil 1 still be the best alternative compared to the others (penzoil, royal purple, castrol) at the local automotive shop (autozone,advanced auto parts, etc)?
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