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Our BMW store finally got a 6spd. M3 in and I got to drive it last night. My initial impressions are that I like it a lot more than the DCT (of course) and I think I like it better than the competition package (surprise), but I'm not sure I like it better than the ATS-V or maybe a new STI to get AWD if the next generation is actually a contender. I am considering AWD again during winter in WI. Go figure.
Fit, Finish, & Materials- This is a huge strong suit for the M3. It is nicer than the ATS-V and the carbon fiber trim looks fantastic. It is almost too nice for a daily driver that I plan to track. It felt like I was in a Mercedes and I should be careful with the car. I am not sure why a lot of reviews said that the M3 interior was substandard compared to competitors. Surprisingly, it also felt more upscale than our interior and I really like our interiors. It also seemed too fancy based on the price of 59,991 with 15,000 miles for a 2017. The '16 ATS-V I drove was just over $37k. Given, it did have 33k miles and less options, but I should still be able to find a 15-16 M3 around 30k miles around $40k.
Driving modes- The top 4 buttons to the left of the shifter each have 3 settings which means there are 81 different settings??? The problem is that only the traction control lets you know on the dash which mode you are in. This can be solved by putting your favorite settings into one of the two "M" memory buttons on the steering wheel, as long as you remember which combination you set. I think that if you need memory buttons for your settings, you probably have too many settings. Choosing the settings you want is also compounded by only having one button that goes up the list instead of two to go up and down like the ATS-V. I am surprised that a lot of reviews downgraded the ATS-V for having two buttons for the settings. It is much easier to choose modes. Compounding matters further, the M3 will remember your settings from last time for most of the settings, but not the engine setting. The default setting is "Efficient," which feels like the car loses 200 hp. This means every time you start the car you either have to change the engine mode or hit one of the "M" buttons on the steering wheel in order for the car to drive like a normal M3. That is beyond annoying.
6spd-The 6spd. is so much easier and fun to drive than the DCT. The DCT really made me feel like I was driving a robot or a video game- not very involving. The throws of the transmission are good, if a touch rubbery and the clutch is decent. I like the shifter and clutch in my car better, but they are both aftermarket so I am sure subtle improvements can be made here too. The gearing seems quite long in this car, but then again it is due to my car having a much more aggressively geared rear end than stock. I was told that the rev matching could not be turned off unless the stability control was also turned off. Fortunately, it is deactivated in Sport Plus mode.
Styling- Once again the M3 takes top honors here inside and out. The styling is much more aggressive than the ATS-V and also our cars. It looks good from every angle and the headlights, bumpers, hood, carbon roof, mirrors, functional front fender vents, and wider rear fenders are all nice touches. I keep thinking I don't want white again, but there are so many white M3s on the market.
Brakes- This car has massive rotors front and rear. I just wish they were slotted instead of cross-drilled for track days. Stoptech does make 2pc. slotted front rotors. Now if I could just find some for the rear. 4 piston front brakes and 2 piston rears are good, but the 6 piston front and 4 piston rears on the ATS-V are better.
Engine & Exhaust- This engine has plenty of power stock to spin the wheels in the first 2 gears. I may need some wider and stickier tires in the back if I do a tune. The carbon fiber brace framing the engine is a nice touch. The exhaust on this car is much quieter than the Competition package. That was disappointing and similar to the ATS-V in how quiet it was. It got a bit louder as you switched to more aggressive engine modes, but it was really pretty quiet all around.
Ride- The ride of this M3 was better than the Competition package by far. In comfort mode it rides smoother than my car on Tein Basis coilovers and in sport plus it seems firmer than my car. A good mix and it should be fine for me. However, the ATS-V still rides better than this car. In fact, the ATS-V never seemed to change the smoothness of the ride- it was always smooth. I think the magnetic dampers mainly just amp up how quickly it can change stiffness.
Heated steering wheel- I forgot how nice this feature is in the winter. I don't believe this is available on the ATS-V either. The M colored stitching is a nice touch and the size of the steering wheel gives it a good feel.
Rear view camera & display screen- This M3 did not have the around view camera like the last one I drove. No matter, you still only get 1/2 the screen for the camera and the screen is much further away than our cars so it is garbage. Worse than the ATS-V as well. The display screen is clear, but the performance screen displays useless hp and torque gauges. The screen for the radio is underwhelming and getting to the settings on the stereo takes much longer than it should.
Stereo- The Harman/Kardon stereo in this car reminds me of the Harman/Kardon stereo in my E46 M3. It sounds clear and decent, but it is not great and there is not a lot of bass. The Bose system in the ATS-V is better and the Bose system in our cars with the large subwoofers in the front doors blows both of them away.
Seats- The seats are pretty good in this car for the street. I think the Competition seats have just slightly larger side bolsters and a touch tighter fit. Neither is as good as the Recaro seats in the ATS-V with their adjustable thigh and torso side bolsters and suede inserts. I have a feeling I might move around a bit on track with these M3 seats. I wish these were cloth, but every M3 I find with cloth seats is a white base model. However, it sounds like this car can be coded not to read any airbag lights if I were to put in aftermarket seats. So much easier than my car and the Sparco seat install. Speaking of seats, there is also more room in the back seat of this car than our cars, even though it doesn't look like it. It has to due partly with the cutouts in the back of the front seats and also a touch more headroom. The ATS-V and G37 are both smaller in the back, but I think still have good usable space.
Decisions, decisions- So now that I finally drove an ATS-V sedan 6spd. and an M3 6spd, where does this leave me in my quest to find the holy grail, er- quest to find my next car? The short answer is that knowing both cars have more power than my car and are also easily tuned to provide significantly more power means that I am thinking seriously about AWD to put the power down. This means I would like to wait until the next gen STI and Golf R come out to see if they make significant improvements in performance.
The other short answer is that if I had to choose between the M3 and the ATS-V right now I would probably choose the ATS-V. Mainly due to the performance data recorder, actual digital performance gauges on the dash, carbon fiber package, Recaro seats, larger brake calipers with blank rotors and 2pc. rotors up front, Bose stereo, easier to see info. screen & rear view camera (also standard), more useful front sonar, much easier to set up drive modes, more options for stability control, carbon fiber hood, suede steering wheel & shifter, wireless charging, no lift shifting, actual brake ducts and cooling for the transmission and rear differential, and titanium connecting rods. Tremac 6spd, slightly better lightning lap time & every review saying it handles better. Now I just need to find a red or black one with the carbon fiber package, polished wheels, red brake calipers, Recaro seats, luxury package, suede steering wheel and shifter, and performance data recorder. Let me know if you see one because I sure have not had any luck.
It's a long list for the ATS-V, but the M3 is no slouch either. On the M3 I prefer the carbon roof, 20G hard drive for audio, heated steering wheel, power folding and auto dimming mirrors, hands free trunk, led headlights lighter weight, larger brake rotors, styling inside & out, and fit & finish.
Well damn, that was thorough! That one post alone could be an entire review thread. Considering how often people here jones after the M3, maybe it ought to be.
Wow that is a night and day difference with just steps and tires/wheels! That Jeep just went from "rental car" to "off-road warrior." Looks great! How does it drive around town compared to a car? Do you notice a big difference in the way it drives with those wheels and tires? Is the interior a little less "hard plastic heaven" now compared to previous Wranglers? I could use something like that for my drive to work tomorrow. We are supposed to get a foot of snow tonight.
Thanks!
Actually having owned a 74 CJ-5 and an 80 CJ-7 it's amazing to me how much these have progressed. The ride is smooth, quiet, much quieter than my G in fact.
The larger Mud Terrain tires are an E-rated tire so they are about as firm as they come, but even so, the ride is still pretty compliant. Interior is comfortable and well appointed, there is plastic in abundance, but enough contrasting textures and materials that it's not just one boring slab. This Jeep JL won Motor Trend SUV of the Year, and the upscale interior was one thing they really praised. I'd take one out for a spin, think you'd be impressed
Complete 180 from that M3 (stellar review BTW!) but still a thrill!
Does the m3 have that electronic down/up rev match function?
Yes it does in the "efficient" & "sport" modes. It only goes away in "sport plus." I am glad it goes away in sport plus as I was told earlier (incorrectly) that the only way to shut it off was to disable the traction and stability control completely. So this is good news, but I still wish I could control when the rev match is active like the ATS-V.
Originally Posted by blnewt
Thanks!
Actually having owned a 74 CJ-5 and an 80 CJ-7 it's amazing to me how much these have progressed. The ride is smooth, quiet, much quieter than my G in fact.
The larger Mud Terrain tires are an E-rated tire so they are about as firm as they come, but even so, the ride is still pretty compliant. Interior is comfortable and well appointed, there is plastic in abundance, but enough contrasting textures and materials that it's not just one boring slab. This Jeep JL won Motor Trend SUV of the Year, and the upscale interior was one thing they really praised. I'd take one out for a spin, think you'd be impressed
Complete 180 from that M3 (stellar review BTW!) but still a thrill!
I think Jeeps are cool and the new one seems like the nicest yet. If I had off-road trails anywhere near me I would definitely consider one. Although we have been getting quite a bit of snow lately which has made me think a lot about AWD. I can get around ok in my car with snow tires, but AWD and lots of power in the snow is a pretty addictive mix.
M3... ATS-V... two cars I want (on paper), and two brands I'm predisposed to not want.
After reading your reviews and living vicariously thru your drives, I'm leaning Cadillac.
We are on the same page. BMW, Lexus, and Mercedes all seem to be the main brands that have a bit of arrogance about them. Cadillac & Infiniti do not seem to be so bad. But the ATS-V and especially the M3 are already expected to be fast on the track. I do prefer to tune the working man's car into somewhat of a giant killer. That is more fun for me. I like to fly under the radar and then blow everyone's doors off. That along with AWD to put the power down has me seriously considering the next gen STI and Golf R as well. Well, that and the fact that I think today is the 15th day that the roads suck and AWD would be really nice.
I also agree with you on the Cadillac. I think I wanted to like the M3 better, but after making that comparison list at the end of the last review it became pretty obvious which car was better. Maybe that is another reason that there are so few of them on the used car market and still not a single one equipped the way I want. This also makes the ATS-V extremely rare.
The only M3 that I've driven was back in late 1998, when my buddy's fiance took one of those Germany vacations where you tour the BMW plant, run your car on the Autobahn, then come back home with your new car. She did this with her mother, who brought back a M5. And then she tracked the car for years in Auto-X events and at Watkins Glen. (And yes, they were silly wealthy.)
It was an impressive driving experience, to say the least. At the time, I had just bought a brand new 1999 Maxima SE 5MT, and I remember how pleased I was when she gave my humble Nissan a thumbs-up after chucking it around the back roads.
Did you go to Germany or just get to drive the car once it got back here? The E39 M5 and the E46 M3 are 2 of my favorite BMW's. They had really good styling that has stood the test of time. Unfortunately, the M5's interior is a lot more dated than the M3 of that time, but still a good looking car. We got one in on trade a few years ago with the 6spd. It was so well balanced and well built that it was still fun to drive and felt sold after 200,000+ miles.
Did you go to Germany or just get to drive the car once it got back here? The E39 M5 and the E46 M3 are 2 of my favorite BMW's. They had really good styling that has stood the test of time. Unfortunately, the M5's interior is a lot more dated than the M3 of that time, but still a good looking car. We got one in on trade a few years ago with the 6spd. It was so well balanced and well built that it was still fun to drive and felt sold after 200,000+ miles.
That’s because everything has been replaced at least 4 times by the 200k mark... it was basically a new car when you drove it!!
Did you go to Germany or just get to drive the car once it got back here? The E39 M5 and the E46 M3 are 2 of my favorite BMW's. They had really good styling that has stood the test of time. Unfortunately, the M5's interior is a lot more dated than the M3 of that time, but still a good looking car. We got one in on trade a few years ago with the 6spd. It was so well balanced and well built that it was still fun to drive and felt sold after 200,000+ miles.
Wasn't me, was my friend's fiance and her mom. IIRC, it was a thing BMW was doing at the time... vacation in Germany, tour the plant, pick out your car, drive it on the Autobahn, and take an ocean cruise back home with the car. Sounds like a heck of an (expensive) adventure.
Anyway, they're divorced now... she was kind of mean. But she knew her cars, and could drive circles around all the guys, that's for sure.
I test drove both the E46 M3 Convertible in SMG and 6spd. I had never driven a Manual BMW, it seemed like something you would have to get used to, not as intuitive as some other cars. The SMG felt the same except no clutch. I didn't buy either. Supposedly someone high up at BMW could have put a dual clutch in the E46, but figured that people would rather have the SMG, what an idiot.
If I ever manage to get my car back to stock I'm probably going with a Civic Si lease. I test drove 3 cars I was interested last year: WRX base, Sentra SR Turbo, and an Si. The Si was the clear victor in terms of fun and practicality. The price tag was also I think the best. Of course in an ideal world I'd get a model 3 or nice truck but I'm not quite there financially.
That’s because everything has been replaced at least 4 times by the 200k mark... it was basically a new car when you drove it!!
Funny, but no that car needed some tlc. But the chassis and engine were still solid.
Originally Posted by Rochester
Wasn't me, was my friend's fiance and her mom. IIRC, it was a thing BMW was doing at the time... vacation in Germany, tour the plant, pick out your car, drive it on the Autobahn, and take an ocean cruise back home with the car. Sounds like a heck of an (expensive) adventure.
Anyway, they're divorced now... she was kind of mean. But she knew her cars, and could drive circles around all the guys, that's for sure.
BMW and Audi still have the option to go to Germany and drive on the Autobahn, but now they ship the car over separately a lot later. It is fairly reasonable for a vacation. We have a few people a year do it with some Audis here at my store. You can always tell because they ship the car here with the German license plates still attached. I looked into this for BMW when I was considering buying a new M3. The other option is to take delivery of your M car at their training facility out east, do a driving school, and drive home. Both tempting options.
Originally Posted by ezbme
I test drove both the E46 M3 Convertible in SMG and 6spd. I had never driven a Manual BMW, it seemed like something you would have to get used to, not as intuitive as some other cars. The SMG felt the same except no clutch. I didn't buy either. Supposedly someone high up at BMW could have put a dual clutch in the E46, but figured that people would rather have the SMG, what an idiot.
The E46 Convertible has such a loose chassis compared to a coupe. The shifter and clutch in my coupe were fine, but I did what most owners do and upgraded the shifter to one off the diesel and added the ZHP shift ****. Subtle changes that made a huge difference.
Speak of the devil, I see that my old M3 is up for sale...
Just added the Alfa Giulia the size, light weight, fuel efficiency is all great. I have seen 1yo cars for 22k which being that they were in the high 40s is like wow depreciation. These are cars with around 10000 miles or less. The 4 cyl should be easy to work on, should handle better than larger cars like the Q50, has 280 hp and I have seen them tuned to 350 hp. They have a bunch of sexy wheel options which seem to eliminate the need for aftermarket wheels. If I got one I would want one with hk sound, adaptive suspension with LSD, probably the std sunroof or no sunroof, rear seated heats please. The long term reliability and access to parts would be the biggest question. Supposedly they do 5.1 sec 0-60 and could get close to 30 mpg.
I also like the Genesis G70, but compared to the Giulia it is a fat kid.
02-06-2019, 09:07 PM
That Jeep just went from "rental car" to "off-road warrior." Looks great! How does it drive around town compared to a car? Do you notice a big difference in the way it drives with those wheels and tires? Is the interior a little less "hard plastic heaven" now compared to previous Wranglers? I could use something like that for my drive to work tomorrow. We are supposed to get a foot of snow tonight.
